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Post by cheerypeabrain on Nov 15, 2010 19:16:47 GMT
Phwoar.....wow.....gosh...cor blimey....gulp....
Respect. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2010 23:22:22 GMT
Such an interesting thread. Thanks for putting all those photos up (and scanning them).
I'd love to go on an African Safari. And what a wonderful thing to do, to take your parents with you, it must have meant so much to your father.
But Kerouac, where you ever worried that you might be attacked by one of those big cats?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2010 5:52:24 GMT
No, they were lazier than they were hungry. And a minibus looks like a stronger beast to them.
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Post by tod2 on Nov 16, 2010 6:38:17 GMT
It makes me sad to see lions that have become used to human contact in a very tangible way. Those lions look exactly like the ex-circus lions in Hlane Game Reserve in Swaziland. The driver of the open vehicles in Hlane drove right up to them and revved his engine continually until a lion or two picked up their heads to see what the fool thought he was doing, and then immediately lay down again. (I'm NOT saying those are also ex-circus lions)
Now when it comes to lions in the Kruger National park it is a completely different story. You have no idea where they are and are extremely lucky to come across a kill with lions or lions just walking along the road. Lions in all game parks are riddled with tuberculosis. Of all the big cats the most sought after for a photo is leopards. Even if I see 4 of the Big 5 and no leopard, I come away feeling cheated. If I see only leopard and no other (unlikely) I feel a great achievement ;D
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 16, 2010 7:27:41 GMT
You have no idea where they are and are extremely lucky to come across a kill with lions... It's also considered extremely lucky not to be the kill, isn't it? Really fascinating info, Tod. Why tuberculosis? Is this something that cats in the wild would have gotten, or is it because of contact with humans? Are leopards the prize because they're more rare or more elusive? You sound as though you've gone on many wildlife-watching expeditions -- so exciting!
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Post by bjd on Nov 16, 2010 7:33:08 GMT
I didn't see any leopards either. I think what is considered the most dangerous are the hippos, rhinos and elephants.
The lions are indeed quite spectacular, but do lie around a lot, especially since we see them during daylight. I imagine they are out and about a little more at night. Actually, my favourites were the elephants and giraffes.
Kerouac, there aren't usually many flamingos on Lake Naivasha, I don't think. Many more on Lake Nakuru. Something about the mineral content of the water in the shallower lakes of the Rift Valley producing more food for the flamingos.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2010 8:22:52 GMT
When one of my colleagues went on the same safari I took, about six months later, with her mother and her daughter, they saw a lion kill a zebra, and she said it was an amazing experience. However, her daughter was only 9 years old at the time and didn't want to eat meat for the next six months.
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Post by onlymark on Nov 16, 2010 10:41:18 GMT
As far as I know hippos are the most dangerous to humans. But don't forget the buffalo either. They can be very nasty and you are more inclined to come into contact with one of them than most other things. Leopards are obviously few and far between so sighting them is a definite bonus. In all the time I've spent in Africa I've only seen two good sightings.
Cheetahs are numerous, are easily domesticated from young and extremely graceful. They are my favourite. As regards the leopard, whereas you try and spot all the big 5 and other game on the ground (or water with the hippo), they tend to hang around in trees and are very difficult to see in the daytime.
Spotting the big cats is helped if you also understand how other animals react to them, flashing of warning signs, bird calls, sudden flight, a herd staring in one direction, all sorts of stuff (like a group of minibuses in a circle). You may well know they are there, but then you have to find exactly where. I'm no expert at this but I've asked those who are when I'm with them as to what tipped them off.
I've had close encounters with hippos and a couple of lions but I'm still here.
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Post by bjd on Nov 16, 2010 11:18:19 GMT
I saw a cheetah mother with a couple of babies (kittens? what are young ones called?) -- really nice.
I remember being told hippos were most dangerous, but at the same time, told they are herbivores. I guess you would be trampled but not eaten!
I had a look through my photographs, but am disappointed with them so won't bother scanning and posting.
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Post by tod2 on Nov 16, 2010 14:58:31 GMT
CUBS bjd, cubs! Bixa, I should have gone on many more safaris in my lifetime as I was born in Kenya and for about 4 years lived only a few miles from Kruger National Park. My parents never took my sister & I probably not interested or too busy on the farm. Kerouac, believe me when I say I am a real ninny when it comes to one species killing another. I change channels on the TV if there is any indication a Big Cat is going to eventually catch the poor little buck and grip it around the throat luckily for me I have only seen lions feeding on a fresh kill - (killed in the night). Bixa - If you want to BE the kill then you would have to either be poaching or come across the border illegally: Crooks Corner: Boundary of South Africa, Mozambique and Zimbabwe "In the 1900s this area was a safe-haven for gun runners, poachers, fugitives and anyone else dodging the law. It was an easy hop across the river whenever police from one particular country approached. There is a large plaque here commemorating the legendary ivory hunter Cecil Barnard (Bvekenya), who hid on an island in the middle of the Limpopo to avoid being tracked down by pursuing rangers and police in the 1920s. Ironically, Barnard later became a ranger himself. A police station was later built here. The road to Crook's Corner passes under majestic fig trees, jackalberries and a forest of fever trees. This is the spot where the Limpopo and Luvuvhu rivers and three countries, Zimbabwe, South Africa and Mozambique, meet." Bixa I have been there twice. It's very tropical so has more exotic birds. Very few tourists ever bother so it is heaven. No bumper to bumper cars like down south at Skukuza. The lions and buffalo have had a bad time with tuberculosis as it spreads like wildfire. You can tell right away if a lion has it - all thin and short of breath. Even my cat Sebastian has been tested for FAIDS. Feline Aids. Very common. Here is the story about TB in lion & buffalo: tinyurl.com/2wdcvr8Leopards are the cats that are VERY elusive & do not hang around if they spot you. They keep walking and loose themselves in the grass. The best way to see one for any length of time is when you find it in a tree either guarding its kill (which it drags up into the branches) or just resting on a nice straight branch. When we are on the lookout for leopard we look under all the trees and try and spot a tail hanging down! Cheetahs are more likely to be found lying around the trunk at the bottom in some shade. I do have photos of all the Big Five which I took over the years on safari. Even a lonesome bull elephant coming straight down the road to wards my vehicle. That is dangerous. I learned to reverse very quickly Being surrounded by a herd of elephants is not. They regard your vehicle as no threat - as long as you do not hoot, flick your lights, or stick any part of your body out of the vehicle.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2010 15:42:30 GMT
The guide told us that elephants were not a problem, but it was kind of hard to believe when there were so many of them.
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Post by bjd on Nov 16, 2010 15:53:32 GMT
In the summer of 2001, there were a group of French tourists visiting Kenya (I think it was Masai Mara) and one guy got out of the jeep or van to take pictures. He was trampled to death by an elephant.
I just found something in French: JACKY BOXBERGER : Cet homme a porté le maillot de l'équipe de France sur 4 Olympiades. Finaliste olympique à 19 ans, 6ème du 1500 m à Mexico. L'exploit l'a placé au rang des grand espoirs mondiaux du demi-fond. Six titres de champion de France en cross et sur piste; champion d'Europe en salle en 1972, meilleure performance française sur marathon en 2 h 10' 49" à Paris en 1985. Jacky Boxberger est disparu cet été 2001 au Kenya terre des coureurs à pied, tué et piétiné par l'éléphant d' un parc qu'il était en train de filmer. Il avait 52 ans.
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Post by tod2 on Nov 16, 2010 17:06:01 GMT
As I said..........as long as you don't stick any part of your body out of the vehicle. The elephants see the vehicle as a large 'being' - exposing yourself as a small little human is asking for trouble. As a matter of fact people who do take chances in Kruger and are spotted/photographed get reported very quickly (people travel with laptops/cellphones) and there is no way they will leave the park without being arrested. Every entrance/exit gate is notified by email immediately and the perpetrators vehicle number logged into the 'exiting process' - then buddy your number is up! There are jail cells at Skukuza Camp where you will be detained before appearing in court. Be careful.........Tod always has her camera at the ready ;D
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 16, 2010 17:36:52 GMT
This is so interesting. The closest I've been to such an experience was Busch Gardens in Florida ~~ much tamer! It's good to hear that in some parks the animals are also being protected from humans, including the dangers of becoming too used to humans. Crook's Corner sounds like a paradise. Do poachers still get into the game parks? Here's a story about how poachers can indirectly but direly affect the parks. Good for you, Tod, for helping to keep the parks as natural as possible. There is a large state park near where my folks live in Oklahoma, which has many buffalo. There are signs galore directing people to stay in their vehicles near the animals, etc. We watched, horrified, as an idiot father led his three-year-old by the hand over to pet the nice buffalo. The TB article is yet another sad example of accidental devastation borne of benevolent ignorance. Jane Pauley has said that all of the early interaction by her and others with non-human primates was without the humans being inoculated, because it wasn't known that those primates could catch human diseases. Of course they had no built-up immunities to those diseases, either. You all have done and seen so much! Mark, you spent a long time in Africa. Some of your wildlife sightings must have been surprises, right? Were any of you frightened at times by too close proximity to the animals or by threatening behaviors?
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Post by onlymark on Nov 16, 2010 18:31:42 GMT
Frightened? What by? Something like this? -
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Post by onlymark on Nov 16, 2010 18:39:05 GMT
I don't have the experience of Tod, but yes, I've nearly crapped myself a couple of times. Once in Kafue National Park in Zambia, once rowing a boat on Lake Naivasha, once by a caged lion in Zimbabwe, once on Lake Kariba Zimbabwe/Zambia, once at the seal colony in Namibia, once in Chobe National Park in Botswana, once ..... errrrr......hang on........... that's a bit more than twice, isn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2010 19:11:28 GMT
That little kitty with one swipe of its little paw could probably remove your intestines from their usual location and play with them like a ball of twine.
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Post by onlymark on Nov 16, 2010 19:33:44 GMT
Maybe so. But it's mother to the right of the picture certainly could.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2010 19:38:46 GMT
No, they were lazier than they were hungry. And a minibus looks like a stronger beast to them. I'm sure. Actually it's probably better to see these big cats on an organized safari than in a local forest. So far, I haven't bumped into any cougars, but a friend saw one by her house, in another town last year.
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Post by bjd on Nov 16, 2010 19:41:10 GMT
Maybe you have to get close to lions when they're so full of food they can't move. We saw a young male lion in Masai Mara who was just lying there looking as though he had swallowed a basketball. They had killed a zebra the day before, there were only a few bones left. The females looked as though they could move if they had too, but the male, no way.
Wow, Mark! Exciting life you have led. Was it a hippo in the water in Lake Naivasha? We went to Fishermen's Lodge for a drink one evening and were told not to go towards the lake because the hippos come out and snuffle around looking for food.
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Post by onlymark on Nov 16, 2010 20:54:11 GMT
Yes, a hippo. You know how when you row a boat you face back the way you've come? So you don't look where you are going too often, especially when you've got a small boat on a very large lake? Several locals on the shore attracted my attention to the hippo that had surfaced a few metres in front of the boat. The hippo then submerged whilst I then had visions of it passing underneath me and tipping me out.
But obviously it didn't.
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Post by onlymark on Nov 16, 2010 20:58:07 GMT
Used to camp at Fishermans camp and that's where it happened.
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Post by tod2 on Nov 17, 2010 14:44:31 GMT
Crumbs Mark, you are waaaaay ahead of me! I have only experienced the famous Kruger National, Etosha National Park in Namibia, Hlane Royal National Park in Swaziland, Hluhluwe-Imfolozi Park and a very small Lion Park down the road from me at Cato Ridge (but those are circus lions). Etosha is the only Game Park out of South Africa that I have visited. Royal Hlane is in most opinions not a Game Park as the area is very small and apart from the old circus lions and a few rhino & maybe a hippo there ain't much else. But different strokes and all that...... we met a young couple from Belgium who just loved sleeping in a little tent and hearing the lions roar all night
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Post by onlymark on Nov 17, 2010 16:55:00 GMT
I have an affection for Etosha but I'm not sure why as it's quite commercialised, busy and at times lacking in animals depending on the season. But I like it anyway. I think it has to do with sitting at the floodlit watering holes at the camps at night. I've not been to Kruger of the others you mention but many others in east Africa down to South Africa.
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Post by tod2 on Nov 17, 2010 17:41:16 GMT
I totally agree on your summing up of Etosha. I would adore to go there when it's in flood. We found the heat, dust and wide expanse with only a few animals at the watering holes, a very different experience. What makes it so great is that the surroundings are like no other. As a matter of fact Namibia - being the oldest desert in the world, is weird. www.pbs.org/edens/etosha/inwild.htmLots of interesting stuff on Panthera Leo The plants are thousands of years old (Welwichia plant) tinyurl.com/2vd3se2This one in the photo is probably only 500 years old. There are fossil trees scattered in a large area. I must stop. The descriptions of the land are beyond words and I'll bore you to tears next ;D
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Post by onlymark on Nov 17, 2010 17:54:01 GMT
You're preaching to the converted where I am concerned. I've spent quite a bit of time in Namibia (and a bit less in Botswana). Between 1994 and 2005(?) I visited Namibia at least twice every year for several weeks each time. If I could my wish would be to live there. There is just something about the country (especially as a desert lover) that hits my spot every time. I could wax lyrical about it until the cows come home.
And you get decent meat there.
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Post by onlymark on Nov 17, 2010 17:59:56 GMT
Kerouac, we seem to have taken over your thread. Sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2010 6:00:11 GMT
Not a problem. You Africans can do whatever you want on the Africa branch!
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Post by spindrift on Nov 27, 2010 20:57:35 GMT
The most dangerous creature I have encountered in the African bush was a Puff Adder. www.suite101.com/content/the-puff-adder-a36056They are the same colour as mud/dirt. They are lazy and don't bother to move away. It's so easy to put your foot on them. I nearly did this in Botswana. Luckily an African stopped me just in time.
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 28, 2010 0:26:59 GMT
The link says that they are "bad tempered". It also says they are nocturnal. So there the poor snake is, snoozing in the heat of the day, when some giant two-footed thing comes blundering along and steps on it. You'd bite, too!
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