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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2010 22:29:05 GMT
When does the new season of Mad Men begin I wonder,jeez,it could be tonight for all I know,I better go and check this out! (I am so out of the loop when it comes to anything on TV!!)
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 14, 2010 22:41:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2010 22:45:31 GMT
That just isn't right! Thanks for checking,I would have been beside myself had I missed the premiere.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2010 7:43:23 GMT
They started showing Mad Men on one of my accessible cable channels, and it did not captivate me. In fact, I had difficulty watching it through to the end because I have never been a fan of mean-spirited humor.
However, before they showed that first episode, there was a very interesting documentary about advertising norms of bygone days and the sociological studies behind it all. One thing that was mentioned that seemed very true to me was that if you showed a scene of a woman sitting in an armchair with her feet up, reading the newspaper with a drink, while her husband did the dusting and prepared dinner, just about all men would find the scene unbearable. And yet we saw the reverse in television shows and in advertising for decades, and everybody found it perfectly normal.
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Post by bixaorellana on Apr 6, 2010 7:49:25 GMT
For what it's worth, I turned off the Mad Men pilot after only a few minutes the first time I saw it. I only looked at it again due to relentless nagging by a friend who's a fan. After a couple of episodes, I saw why it's so good.
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 28, 2010 3:33:10 GMT
Is anyone else watching it? I can't believe that after all the hyper-ventilating waiting for the season to start that no one started a thread.
I'm opening this thread up for Mad Men discussion. (if no one else is interested, I'll just delete it)
I'm thinking we could do this without using the spoiler button and just give fair warning that each episode will be discussed as it airs, so no peeking if you don't want plot parts revealed.
Who's in?
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 28, 2010 3:45:21 GMT
Episode 10 of Season 4 aired last night (Sunday, Sept. 27). I just finished watching it, and have to say WHEW! This season started pretty slackly, but I think when Don went to see Anna it really took off.
I've really been enjoying the development of Peggy as a strong central character, but tonight's episode was so intense, I didn't even notice she wasn't in it until it was over. It's also been nice finding out that Jon Hamm really can act.
One of the characters who enhances the series in a novelistic way is Lane Pryce. It's nifty the way they use him sparingly, but every time he's strongly featured, it's one more peel off the onion.
I got a chuckle over the ending song of this episode. I also had a mild paranoia attack wondering if they're gearing up to end the series. Naaaaah.
Question: how do other viewers here feel about Joan? I have a reason for asking, but I'd be curious to hear your answers first, please.
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Post by Jazz on Sept 28, 2010 5:18:45 GMT
I'm in, forget the spoiler button.
Well, I’m certainly watching it and continue to think that it’s brilliant. However, I am horrified to just realize that I missed Sunday night (busy)…no problem, there will be many repeats.
Lane Pryce is a powerful character, not used often, but somehow I suspect his role will increase. He becomes more interesting with each episode (they are developing him slowly) and ‘something ‘is going to happen with him. He’s older, not that good looking, but intelligent and becoming very gradually more intriquing. I’ve always felt that Jon Ham (Don Draper) can act. Perhaps not easily accepted because he is sexual, arrogant, selfish and a creative and charismatic man. Difficult to deal with. This year is revealing him as particularily seedy yet, more human. Somehow, more likeable in his isolation from his children, his unspoken question of where is his life going, and the smug situation of his ex-wife Betsy and her new husband. I’ve known a few men just like him.
Peggy and Joan each fascinate me.
Peggy struggles to be accepted for her gifts despite the fact that she is a woman. I like her very much. She is lovely and gifted, yet innocent with respect to the ‘Bottom Line’ in the advertising business at the time, the use of her sexuality. She is slowly becoming aware of this, yet somehow feels it’s wrong to use ‘it’ and lives in conflict. The very few times that she does ‘use it’ , chaos ensues and she doesn’t know what to do or where to go. She remains confused and uncertain, trying to work out what to do….what is most valuable to these men, your body or your mind and spirit? (Don’t stay awake all night trying to decide what is most fascinating for the men, it’s your body.) I understand, the film business was and is, similar.
Joan is also a powerful character. I also like her very much. She reminds me of a very close friend of mine. A body to bring any man to his knees and the absolute awareness of how to wield this power. ‘Intelligence and gifts’ are totally irrelevant to these men and to her, the Holy Grail is to take her to bed. She is contemptuously aware of this and thus, controls them absolutely. They are her pathetic puppets. Peggy is innocent, Joan isn’t and probably wasn’t from the age of 8. However, as with many beautiful and sensual women (many of whom have been and are my close friends), I think Joan wants to be loved for herself, as all women do.
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 28, 2010 6:14:43 GMT
Yaaay ~~ another aficionada!
I'm glad I didn't accidentally let any cats out of any bags until you see this last episode, Jazz.
Interesting take on Joan, totally different from mine.
I didn't see Peggy as using sex to get ahead in business, more as some part of her confused sense of self earlier on. I think when she dumped the dud fiance, she finally woke up to what she owes herself. I find it fascinating that she actually has some kind of interior compass that may veer wildly, but that will pull her back on track.
The Don/Peggy dynamic is interesting as all get-out.
Oh -- important question ....... does anyone remember if the character Lee, the boorish Lucky Strike guy, is the one who tried to put the make on Sal, then wound up getting him fired? This is making me crazy.
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 28, 2010 6:17:12 GMT
Pointless observation ~~
Did anyone notice in last week's episode how totally fantastic that scene looked in Roger's light-filled gray & white office when Joan moved through it in her red dress?
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Post by Jazz on Sept 28, 2010 6:46:05 GMT
No, I didn't see Peggy using sex at all to get ahead in business...she has utterly has no idea what to do with it (unlike Joan, the ultimate mistress of sexuality)..but Peggy is beginning to to have a dawning awareness of its possibilities. I agree, she has some unerring inner compass that in the end (thus far) centres her. Hmmm...what will happen with her and Don?
What is your take on Joan? Given that it's totally different from mine, I'm fascinated.
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 29, 2010 3:58:54 GMT
Finally getting back to this thread so late, although I had an intense telephone discussion this morning about Sunday's episode.
Okay, Joan ........ I've never really liked her because of her bitchiness to other women, her little-girl-voice provocativeness, her lack of a personal moral code (although she does have loyalty to the firm).
The reason I was hoping for more comments on Joan before commenting myself is because of a conclusion my 3D fellow Mad Men fan & I reached. That is, the older a woman is, the more likely she is to have compassion for and a certain identification with Joan. My age group was already the beneficiary of somewhat more enlightened attitudes about women's roles in the work place and life in general. We thus supposed that women of my generation would be impatient with Joan's whole shtick. My friend, eleven years older than I, was more able to see Joan as a real person trapped in the mores and expectations of her time. Another woman we know, an eighty-three year old, is also sympathetic to Joan, although this woman has always been pretty radical and advanced.
You, Jazz, have now knocked that neat little theory into a cocked hat, since you are of my generation.
I think most of what bothers me about Joan is her unwillingness to be a true friend to any of the other women. In one way, it's understandable because of her position in the office. But the way she competes and undermines shows that at heart she is a very frightened person who thinks competing is the only way to "win".
Your comment that Peggy is innocent and Joan is not is almost opposite to my take on those two characters.
I think Peggy was innocent and confused. I also saw her sexual acts as being something she thought she wanted for herself, rather than as ways to get ahead.
Joan, on the other hand, has always pretended to a cool that masks -- even from herself -- deep hurt and confusion. Remember the whole horrible date-rape scene with her then-fiance and the way she thought it was just something she had to accept.
The meeting between her & Roger at the coffee shop in the most recent episode showed this very clearly. It was so obvious what the "right thing" would have been for Roger to do. The flashes of that expectation in Joan's face, and the resigned way she accepted his usual clueless crassness were heartbreaking.
Part of the discussion with my friend this morning revolved around her not being able to accept the Pete/Don interaction involving the aeronautics company contract. I thought it was brilliant and called for some mental nimbleness on the part of the viewer.
Jon Hamm was great in this episode. When he had that panic attack, I could almost feel it.
Any comments on Faye?
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Post by lola on Sept 29, 2010 17:51:48 GMT
We don't have cable, and I couldn't get Mad Men on any of bixa's links this time. I understand the value of intellectual property, and can see why they don't want to hand it out for free in the US anyway. There's no way I'd get cable TV, so will wait patiently for a year or two, skimming here and trying not to remember too much. I do think a Peggy-Don romance would be a bad idea.
I'm having fun rereading Dorothy L. Sayers' Murder Must Advertise, and comparing the ad life to that of Mad Men.
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 30, 2010 5:35:31 GMT
Lola, have you seen the first three seasons all the way through?
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Post by lola on Sept 30, 2010 14:04:45 GMT
Hi, Bixa. Yes, thanks to my public library and tvshack, I'm caught up through last season. Looking forward to new developments!
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 4, 2010 16:15:11 GMT
So ........ who watched last night's episode, Season 4, Episode 11, Chinese Wall? First off, what does the title mean? It was another good episode, although less emotionally engaging than the last two or three. They probably wanted to give us a break and did need to move the business aspect of the plot along. John Slattery has really shown his stuff as an actor in this season's exposure of Roger's shallow, fragile interior. I really admire this series for its restraint, which has always kept it on track as excellent drama, never soap opera. I guess we can see what the cliff-hanger is going to be at season's end. Only two episodes are left in Season 4. It's a shame that some of the blander characters have been kept and some of the more interesting swept aside. Ken Cosgrove may be necessary to the plot, but will we ever care about him the way we did about Sal Romano? I guess some of this may have to do with contracts and other real-life considerations, but I already miss Lane. And what's the deal with Robert Morse? His Bert Cooper was omnipresent at the beginning of the series, but is seen less and less now. He had very few lines in last night's episode, and his voice sounds croaky and old. There are some stumbles, but Mad Men continues to beautifully and accurately portray the mores and look of the times. I am wondering if the skirts weren't shorter in the series' current time period, but no matter. The little touches, such as the mismatched mugs on the conference table continue to convince us we're in the 60s. And the increasing number of scenes depicting the characters' respective versions of anomie show the creators' consciousness of sociological concerns of the time.
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Post by onlymark on Oct 4, 2010 16:44:10 GMT
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Post by lola on Oct 4, 2010 17:11:42 GMT
John Slattery directed episode 4 or so, too. He's great as Roger.
I'm caught up with the one where Don goes to bed with a brunette and wakes with a blonde. I hope that signaled rock bottom for him and that he starts to snap out of it; I'm not crazy about watching inexorable deteriorations. Though he was a jerk with Allison, he still doesn't deserve Ms. Blankenship.
The period mores are so beautifully done. You watch these characters who could make contact with each other if they'd only speak up. Probably part of the national tendency then, too.
It's fun getting to run through the episodes instead of having to wait a week, but it's keeping me up past my bedtime. Watching on DVD fun, too, because of tidbits like John S. complaining about how tight the wardrobe people made him wear his shirt collars.
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Post by lola on Oct 6, 2010 16:40:55 GMT
Okay, almost caught up. The website cut me off way after bedtime, so it was just as well.
I take it all back about Ms. Blankenship! Boy, does she remind me of people.
I like Joan despite her loose interpretation of sexual ethics, but I tend to admire competent people generally. Bixa, would the right thing have been making her an honest woman, or offering to? I see her and Peggy as essentially good hearted, though certainly Joan is more skilled at manipulation using the old fashioned weapons. If she'd been really cagey she'd have pulled something like what Jane did and rope Roger in. I've mostly worked in a woman dominated field, besides never being much interested in other people's sex lives, so I haven't seen that sort of thing playing out in real life.
I think Don loves/admires Peggy and more remarkably Joan for who they are.
Faye annoys me intensely: insensitive to other women and children, using hokey psychology to draw the secretaries out. The bits where she interacts with Sally were great: reintroducing herself after Don just had, and then asking her if she remembered her after having spent hours together the previous day, all rang so true of the clueless adult.
Or maybe I'm just jealous.
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 7, 2010 0:33:14 GMT
Thanks for the Chinese wall explanation, Mark. Boy, that was a perfect title for that episode.
Lola: I like Joan despite her loose interpretation of sexual ethics, but I tend to admire competent people generally. Bixa, would the right thing have been making her an honest woman, or offering to? I am warming up to Joan, but don't feel any identification with her. Actually, in a way I think her sexual ethics were fairly pure. When she was boffing Roger while he was married to the first Mrs. Sterling, she made it clear it was only an affair. As soon as she broke it off, someone who was a real homewrecker zipped in & got Roger.
Absolutely the right thing to do would have been for Roger to offer to marry her. That never even occurred to the needy little weasel. I think the coffee house scene was Christina Hendricks' absolutely best piece of acting in the whole series. Joan had allowed herself to hope -- to hope that she could finally lean on someone else, to reveal herself as vulnerable, and to be cherished. Of course Roger let her down and of course she concealed her feelings. I don't even know that she would have accepted him, but it was obvious that she wanted to be loved for herself for a change. As for Jane, the trophyette, who cares? Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Lola: Faye annoys me intensely: insensitive to other women and children, using hokey psychology to draw the secretaries out. Yeah, she rubs my fur the wrong way, too. I don't like the character anyway, and am confused by some of her speeches and the timing of them. I also think that Cara Buono has an annoying face -- something about her beestung lips and chipmunk cheeks. I think she's supposed to be a veiled reference to Dr. Joyce Brothers, for those of us ancient enough to get such references.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2010 5:30:02 GMT
I am still unable to watch this show. I'm pretty sure it is because I am allergic to that era. Period movies that take place between 1955-1965 have the same affect on me. There must be some childhood trauma in there somewhere.
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Post by lola on Oct 7, 2010 15:53:37 GMT
Some of the soap opera aspects get on my nerves, like who's doing what to whom. Many viewers must like it when a character launches into a new affair, but I flinch a bit. Trauma? Possibly. Naturally there must be some sort of plot to hang that all on, but I can't believe everyone was fooling around quite on that scale. I love Lane and the Bunny, though.
I really like the cultural background, and the lamps and hats. I'll get this emotional flash of: My grandmother had that alarm clock! The way they just give you a quick look at the Beatles Shea Stadium tickets.
The fact that we get no glimpses of Faye's unobserved life makes me think she'll be temporary.
I need to go back and look at the coffeehouse scene, Bixa. Your analysis is so right on.
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 9, 2010 2:40:41 GMT
As a rule the series is quite well-researched. In fact, I believe the creator of the show is known for his interest in that era. As I said in #10, I'm sure the writers are aware of the psychological undercurrents of the time.
I totally thrill to every recognition of stuff in the show that I remember from my childhood. Early in the series, Betty picks up a cigarette lighter from the bedside table. There was an identical one on the coffee table in our home when I was a kid. And yeah, the quick flashes are great, too. Seeing the Beatles tickets, it was impossible not to think, "a piece of history!"
Maybe Faye is just there as sort of filler until January Jones comes back to the series?
I eagerly await your take on the Joan in the coffeehouse.
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 11, 2010 21:46:17 GMT
Oh my goodness ~~ Just watched Mad Men & this was the song used at the end of this week's episode:
This was an excellent episode, interestingly directed by John Slattery. Did everyone notice how it sort of went in fits and starts, perfectly mirroring the fortunes of the company and, indeed, the advertising business.
The various bits were a goldmine for aficionados of the show -- the encounter with the old girlfriend and how it demonstrated Don's hidden empathetic side, the cute flash of understanding between Don & Peggy, the way all the allegiances are thrown into the air & how they're landing.
Bringing back the sub-plot of Sally, Betty et al was a great device in this particular episode. It's interesting in and of itself and some relief was needed from the high-tension business part of the plot.
I can feel my fingernails scritching down the side of the cliff as we near the last episode of the season.
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Post by lola on Oct 12, 2010 0:41:00 GMT
Bixa, I must have the equivalent of a tin ear when it comes to acting. (A glass eye, maybe?) I know everything is there that you said, it must be there, but I can't detect Hendricks doing anything particular to bring it there. At Academy Awards time I never know who really deserves Best Actress or whatever, either, or why, except that I like a person in a role.
That's why I shouldn't be a drama critic, and you should.
Love the fingernails skritching image.
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 12, 2010 3:05:07 GMT
Or maybe it's just that I'm too much into this shit?
I'm assuming from your reply that you haven't seen last night's episode yet. I don't think I gave anything away.
Incidentally, thanks for the heads-up about John Slattery directing some episodes. If you hadn't mentioned it, I wouldn't have noticed.
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Post by lola on Oct 13, 2010 2:30:29 GMT
Oh, yes. Love that song. It was an especial kick at the end. I wonder whether Slattery got to choose it.
Poor old Burt Cooper. Like so many of us, he's four years older than when the series started.
I wonder whether they had Mindy lose weight for that one episode, and whether they have weight loss and gain enforcers on staff. Interesting to have her be in that situation and a cause of inspiration.
Sally's friendship with Glen reminds me so much of one I had in the 5th-6th grade, but we mostly walked around together. It made my parents uneasy until eventually my father decided, correctly, that it was "platonic": first time I'd heard the word.
How many more episodes?
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 13, 2010 3:52:59 GMT
Mindy? Sorry, Lola -- you lost me with that comment.
Actually, I understand Betty's concern about Glen, because he really is kind of a creepy kid, and Betty is around his age, mentally.
Only one episode left in this season, thus the fingernail reference. I'm wondering if they're going to have a last-minute save, or will we be left wondering if the company will make it.
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Post by lola on Oct 13, 2010 14:54:35 GMT
Sorry. I meant Midge, former lots of things.
Yes, I do spend Glen and Sally's scenes thinking "Don't you dare touch that girl!"
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 13, 2010 16:28:39 GMT
Oh yeah -- Midge! That was an surprise to see her again. It's been so long since she was on, she could have gained or lost weight naturally. The one who has really bulked up is Joan. Look at the publicity stills from season one to see the difference.
I'm watching all the Friends episodes, & when Monica is in the fat suit, it looks very natural. I guess that's how they made Peggy bigger when she was pregnant in Mad Men.
You're right about that nervous worry in the Glen/Sally relationship. I also worry more about his leading her into arson or something like that.
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