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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2010 17:38:50 GMT
The continuing story of the beautiful young bride murdered in South Africa still baffles and stuns the world. Who is really behind the murder? The husband or someone else who is trying to frame him? Link: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11937073New information seems to be coming to light day by day. The husband, a self made millionaire was in great debt, did he have the murder arranged in order to claim on the life insurance for his wife? Or is he an innocent in this and is being framed by the South African authorities? If so why? Looking at the happy couple on thier wedding day, it's hard to imagine that the husband could have been plotting her murder at that time. More about it on here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-11937170Any thoughts on this case?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2010 2:47:52 GMT
Quote from Tod:
Quote from Rikita:
Tod, I see your point of view. It does look more and more like the husband had something to do with it. Hard though it is to believe. Truth really is stranger than fiction. Any idea what the new developments are in this case?
Riky, you make a good point, I didn't know that there was no death penalty in South Africa. The crime there seems to be out of control, the country has one of the highest rate of rape in the world. The man (apparently) paid only $1,400 to kill the poor woman. Next to nothing. Life is so cheap to some. I hope they get to the bottom of this...
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Post by tod2 on Dec 10, 2010 5:53:32 GMT
I don't have statistics to hand Rikita but I think it would make a huge difference to crime levels if it were brought in again....but it never will. If you ask just about everyone on the street - black, white or brown, they all want the death penalty back.
Unlike some American states where you can sit on death row for years, it would be a much faster process here and I think ones head would be dispatched within a few months! No, not with a guillotine ;D The last murderers were hung - no easy peasy little 'ol jab here.
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Post by tod2 on Dec 10, 2010 12:13:30 GMT
OK - All the papers are running the story on the front page today. I have 2 newspapers to hand and will briefly report some of the statements made by various people:
The Witness (our local paper): Headline reads - "Dewani: Shock Claims" The SA police force remained silent yesterday as fresh rumours emerged. Claims are that the husband tried to buy an earlier murder in South Africa. Zola Tonga who implicated Dewani in his wife's murder believes that Dewani had in the past arranged another murder in the country, in similar circumstances. Tongo's claim that he was given money by Dewani after Anni's death is backed up on full colour CCVTV footage from a restaurant of a hotel. This was days after her body was found, and Dewani was staying at the Cape Grace Hotel and being comforted by relatives.
The next newspaper I have is "Public Eye" which has a lovely photo of the couple on the front page. It goes into detail on the plan Dewani & Zola hatched to murder his wife, engaging the services of two others, Qwabe & Mnguni, who were to do the actual killing. Zola: "We agreed that Shrien Dewani and I would be ejected from the vehicle and that the female occupant had to be killed" While Tongo shuttled the couple to the restaurant, Qwabe called him and confirmed the location where the staged hijacking was to take place. Tongo also added that whilst he was driving the couple around, he sent a text message to Shrien not to forget the money. Shrien replied saying the money was in an envelope behind the driver's seat. Tongo confirmed he received R1,000 as payment for his role in orchestrating the murder.
My Comments: Well, cell phone calls are easily traced so this would be damning evidence should this prove true.
Life is treated rather cheaply here as the amount of R1,000 is about 92 pounds sterling or 108euros. I can easily spend that amount each time I go to the supermarket.....
My suspicions and those of people (Africans) that I have spoken to, were immediately aroused when we learned that the husband was thrown out of the vehicle along with the driver. This is not normal. Normal would be to shoot the lot of them leaving no witnesses. To me and others , that is the most telling mistake in this whole sad affair.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2010 12:24:49 GMT
The details appeared fishy to me from the very first report of what happened, and that was before I even learned that there was money to be gained from the death.
As Agatha Christie always said, some people are just wicked.
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Post by tod2 on Dec 10, 2010 12:29:20 GMT
Kerouac Hi, I see you are online. You know the strange thing is, it could all turn around and have one of those surprise endings! They are all liars sometimes.....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2010 16:19:18 GMT
I read through that with great interest, Tod. It's great that we have someone from there who can tell us first hand what is going on over there. A lot of the time, the rest of the world only gets half the story. It's interesting hearing about the reaction of the people from someone who is right there.
I'll be following this case...
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Post by tod2 on Dec 11, 2010 17:43:23 GMT
Having just watched the 7pm news I don't have much to report but am sure the Sunday newspapers are going to have a field day. On Friday the newspaper seller not far from my house was nowhere to be seen when I did my normal 9.30am route past him. Usually they are there for hours trying to sell papers!
The police chief appeared on the broadcast but didn't give anything new except to re-iterate that they suspect him to be involved in the murder last year of a family friend and doctor. His murder goes unsolved and has definitely been suspected as a 'hit' . Reasons are not a thing was stolen as would be the case in an armed robbery. If Shrien Dewani was in the country at the time, he may have some explaining to do. The Chief was upbeat in his interview and although Dewani has said he will fight extradition to South Africa, the police seem to think he will be accessible when they need him.
Will see tomorrow if the papers have anything new.
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Post by tod2 on Dec 13, 2010 9:33:55 GMT
I read through our main Sunday Paper, The Tribune, which screamed the headline "SHUT UP!" It was leveled at the National Police Commissioner who seems to be saying far too much and prejudicing the prosecuting authorities case. He is a bit of a 'shoot from the hip" man with a somewhat large ego.
The paper described the findings of a group of journalists who retraced the fate full evening. Leaving the hotel at the same hour and keeping to the exact route and times of arrival at various places. They found the street deserted at the fateful hour, not a place where partying and residents were out and about. But the most unusual discovery they made was that when the Dewani's passed the restaurant and found it closed, their driver stopped at the next intersection..........there is no STOP sign or reason for halting here. This is where two men approached the vehicle, pointing guns.
The next revelation is the sexuality preference of Shrien Dewani. It seems to have been suggested that he was a gay man ( didn't I see something like this on East Enders??)
Sorry I don't have more, but I think the authorities will watch what is said from now on until they can get hold of him.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2010 13:59:45 GMT
Thanks for the update on this case, Tod.
If it is true that he is somehow involved in the killing of the doctor, then it doesn't look good for him at all. I wonder why he would arrange a 'hit' on this doctor? If that is indeed the case, then it looks like Dewani is an old hand at this kind of murder already.
The fact that he may be gay would of course explain why he would marry for devious means only. If he is a gay man, would his family not have known about it? Maybe not, I've heard of gays hiding their sexuality even form the closest people to them, even going as far as getting married to get the pressure of them.
If much of what is being said about him is true and can be proved then the only thing that might still set him free would be if someone, somewhere along the line jeopardizes the case on legalities. Now I'm reminded of the Simpson case in the US. The National Police Commissioner needs to keep a check on what he says, for sure.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Dec 15, 2010 19:55:45 GMT
It is a terrible tragedy that this lovely young woman has been brutally murdered, what is also quite disturbing is the fact that 'the media' plays such a central role in our perception of justice. Are journalists, no matter how well meaning, ever not looking for the best angle to sell their story? How can we trust gossip, conjecture and suposition ? and how can we ever be sure that the stories we read in the newspapers are not going to prejudice the case? It's appalling that a police commissioner is behaving so irresponsibly.
I don't know whether the groom is guilty or not.
I would fight NOT to have the death penalty....it's bad enough that some of our police officers in England have fire arms.
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Post by tod2 on Dec 16, 2010 10:34:01 GMT
No more news on the Dewani front from South African newspapers. Gone very quiet with other headline news from around the globe taking preference.
Yes Cheery, that is THE big question ! Guilty or not? With clever lawyers and tons of money it may never even get to court. The South African police can jump up and down all they like but unless he comes to stand trial - he'll keep us guessing for evermore.
Death Sentence: I on the other hand, along with millions of South Africans, black & white, are sick of being bullied by thugs who use guns as if they were toys - your life means shit in their book. It can be like the Wild West here at times. The cops have to be armed.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Dec 17, 2010 20:50:35 GMT
I do not mean to criticise, and I realise that in some places it would be ridiculous not to arm the police when criminals are so heavily armed. There is no answer really, I certainly don't have any.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2010 14:40:55 GMT
My thoughts exactly, cheery. The media can manipulate the situation to make it look like what ever it wants it to. How much of it is true and how much of it is it the SA police, media, officials, trying to cover up what really goes on over there? Like I said before SA has the worst reputation for the number of rapes committed each year, I hear that even child rape is not that uncommon, as well as other violent crimes. I don't know what the answer is either, I image the decent people of SA are fed up to their back teeth of everything that goes on there.
I don't beleive in the death penalty, although, boy, does it ever seem appropriate in some cases. If we look back at (American) history, and see all the innocent people that were mistakingly put to death, it is enough for me to say, no that's not the way to go. I'm used to the police carrying guns here, and it is justified, after all they are up against criminals who are more then likely are armed.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2010 6:10:52 GMT
The French newspapers just got around to this story yesterday (news lull between Christmas and New Year). From the extensive article that I read, most people consider the case cut and dried now: Gay man marries to get his family off his back and arranges to become a widower as quickly as possible.
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Post by tod2 on Jan 3, 2011 15:51:50 GMT
Well here is the latest from our Sunday newspapers. The headlines screamed: "Tell us why, Shrien" - Heat on Dewani as Anni's friends demand amswers! This comes in the wake of The Sun's published open letter from Anni's friends under the headline "We want some answers, Shrien"
They make the point to Dewani that only five people were present at the time of the murder: " YOU, Anni Hundocha, the driver Zola Tongo and the two gunmen. Nobody else, neither friends nor your brother or other relatives can say what has really happened - only these people! You state that you are innocent of these allegations, so please go back to Cape Town to prove to the South African police why they've got it wrong"
Anni's friends also ask him to explain more clearly what he was doing when he was seen on CCTV giving money to Tongo three days after the murder. They also want to know why he chose to take his new wife to a sushi restaurant so far away when they could have easily eaten near their hotel and why the couple left the restaurant after just 40minutes.
Hindocha says that if he was told his son could be the killer he would say "Go to South Africa and tell them you did not do it. If he didn't then what's he afraid of? If he loved her as much as he says he did, he should go back to South Africa and identify her killers. He should go - that's what I believe"
So why go to South Africa on honeymoon? A country where Dewani has friends and contacts? Ah, thats because neither of them had ever been there. And the letters SA matched their initials. Sweet. His defence shrugs off the call from Dewani, claiming to be a travel consultant to ease the cost of visiting the Kruger National Park at the start of the honeymoon. Yes, he lied but that doesn't make him a murderer.
I personally find that strange - the Kruger Park is small potatoes compared to the stay at the Cape Grace Hotel which is expensive. Maybe he likes lying and getting away with it?
This I find particularly horrible - The chat with Zola Tongo, the man jailed for 18 years over his part in the murder claims Dewani chatted to him about the "hit" within 25min. of them meeting and with Anni in the car alongside them. Then there's the stolen Blackberry with the number of the taxi driver.....
David Miller of Sleuth Dectectives believe Dewani's distraught and panicked state after he was kicked out the vehicle without his Blackberry with the taxi driver's phone number on it, is clear evidence he is innocent.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2011 2:33:32 GMT
Yeah I too find that awful, sickening.
Thanks for the update Tod. Not much in the main news about this story lately, so It's interesting know about what you hear over there...
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Post by tod2 on Jan 13, 2011 7:41:26 GMT
A short , no real news update. This week in our local paper there was a small article. It basically reported the dissatisfaction Annies family is having with the Dewani family. They heavily criticize Shrien for not doing more to protect her at the time of the hi-jacking incident. They propose that he should have gone kicking and screaming instead of abandoning her so easily. They maintain he should have known what the gunmen would probably have in store for an attractive helpless female - in other words rape her before anything else. As it seems this did not happen, only the execution. Very strange. Sorry I don't have more but will report back if I see anything in print.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2011 18:18:31 GMT
Well, that is kind of a limp reproach, because some people are absolute cowards even when their loved ones are attacked. It does not enhance them as human beings, but it does not make them murderers, unless the people fighting for places in the lifeboats of the Titanic are to be considered murderers.
I still think he had his wife killed, though.
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Post by tod2 on Jan 16, 2011 14:57:22 GMT
Again the Sunday Tribune, our local Sunday newspaper had front page headlines: Guru's dire warning: "Shrien. you will die in SA" claims Dewani's spiritual adviser.
Shrien Dewani's legal team will paint South Africa as a Banana Republic when he appears at his extradition hearing on Thursday in London. This emerged this week when Kamlesh Vyas, Shrien Dewani's family priest and 'paditij' or leader of the Bristol Hindu Temple, warned the man accused of orchestrating his wifes murder. He said "The way South African politics work, I don't think it is safe for hom to go to South Africa. You won't get a fair trial. no way, because South Africa would like to clear its image in front of people for their tourism industry - Why can't he be put on trial here, or go to another country in Europe, where he can have a fair trial? The way the media have portrayed Shrien, if he goes to SA he will be killed by somebody in prison or anywhere"
In contrast Justice Minister Jeff Radebe gave the assurance earlier this week that Dewani would be presumed innocent until proven guilty and the constitution guaranteed his right to a free and fair trial.
"Friends" of Dewani claim he has lost weight and is being monitored by doctors and a round the clock suicide watch.
Now page 3: A half page photo of the couple is headlined by: "So many questions"
In many ways, the case echoes that of British toddler Madelaine McCann. A mysterious crime is committed overseas and - eager to protect its reputation - the host country promptly accuses the apparent victim, a British tourist, of being behind it. There follows a fiercely patriotic international row which is seized upon by internet conspiracy theorists. And, almost inevitably, a PR battle begins. The McCanns employed former BBC man Clarence Mitchell: the Dewani's have Max Clifford. Anni's family are appalled by his involvement and the fact that he was retained even before Dewani was formally accused has ratcheted up their suspicions.
Personally ( my opinion), I smell a very big rat.
To be continued..
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Post by tod2 on Jan 16, 2011 16:22:44 GMT
To carry on with the newspaper report -
A source reports " Shrien had his entire future mapped out. They were going to move in with his family in accord with his cultural traditions." Thus far there are only sordid rumours about his private life. One tabloid newspaper reported claims of a gay prostitute who said Dewani paid him 1,000pounds for three sex sessions last year, when he was courting Anni after the couple met in April 2009. Just three months earlier Dewani's engagement to Rani Kansagara, the daughter of a British Asian tycoon had ended. It is not clear why, but it lasted just a few weeks and she is said yo have broken it off. (Can't help thinking she had a lucky escape......)
Anni's family felt satisfied however, that the handsome young company director was worthy of her. "They were a perfect match" says the Dewani family source. Perhaps so, but their relationship did not run smoothly. They split up for a month before getting engaged, in June last year. On November 7, six days before she died - Anni sent a text message to a friend saying "Crying has become my new hobby" According to the Dewani source, it was a tiff caused by the stress of their "pantomime production" wedding. (Jeez, a panto.....no wonder...)
Several people in South Africa were taken aback by their perceived lack of closeness. "I never once saw them hug or kiss, or even hold hands" said a member of staff who served them at the Cape Grace hotel, hours before Anni was murdered. She told me they were on honeymoon but you would never have guessed". There were similar stories at the Chitwa Game Lodge where they spend three days before arriving in Cape Town. Dewani's behaviour on arriving at Cape Town airport begs further questioning. Why didn't he arrange to be picked up by the hotel limo service (too pricey at R670 says his defender): and why risk using a freelance "tout" driver when there are any number of reputable taxi kiosks in the terminal? Then again, the bridegroom is said to have asked Tongo - an apparent stranger - to arrange the hit after he dropped them at the hotel. They barely met half an hour earlier, so was that really likely? Tsongo's mother is convinced her son told the truth in court. Why want to dine at 8pm when the restaurant closed at 7.30pm (doesn't the early closing tell you nobody wants to venture out there after dark it becomes a virtual no-go area? ) The question which most perplexes South African observer's, including the police and paramedics who attended the scene, is, why did the gunmen (now awaiting trial) first free Tongo and then Dewani, knowing they could both identify them? Unless it was a set-up as Tongo insists, why would this experienced driver have pulled over for two strangers? Paramedics who found her lying on the back seat of the minivan is adamant she had not been sexually assaulted. There was no evidence of a struggle,and she had apparently been dispatched with a single bullet to her neck. The VW van was abandoned in a quiet residential street with fingerprints all over it - that is how one of the gunmen was traced. More and more curious. It seems the bridegroom is unable to shed more light on matter.
That's all folks!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2011 16:28:27 GMT
I will resist the urge to post a smiley about this because it would be completely inappropriate, but what a farce!
Looks like the great people who brought us "Rule Britannia" still don't trust the judicial system of the colonies.
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Post by tod2 on Jan 16, 2011 18:19:21 GMT
I think someone is squirming and making up any farcical suggestion they can - it will backfire be sure of that. The judicial system in South Africa is so closely scrutinized with many people just waiting to pounce on any irregularities - Look at the Zuma case, they gave him every opportunity to squirm out of 'rape' - he only had to tell them it was his DUTY as a man to for-fill the needs of a 'wanting' woman. OK, I'll be blunt....the African men have a sex drive second to none and if she did indeed come to his study wearing a flimsy toga, well........ What I do object to is the fact the girl was young enough to be his daughter and mainly because she had AIDS and he had no protection sex!! Look at him now - it's all washed under the bridge after his FAIR trial.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2011 19:31:12 GMT
All fascinating. Thanks for the update and your opinions on this case tod.
*gag*
Jesus, it's men with that kind of attitude that makes you want to kick them in the nuts.
What a farce, who's paying who to say what? Or was the husband really gay and paid for prostitutes? I guess if they can get the male-hooker to come forward and provide some kind of evidence, then this man doesn't stand a change in my opinion. And rightly so.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2011 10:12:25 GMT
*gag* Jesus, it's men with that kind of attitude that makes you want to kick them in the nuts. Just kick them? I'd be more in favour of cutting off their balls with a rusty knife.
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Post by tod2 on Jan 19, 2011 12:06:58 GMT
It's all over the newspapers overseas - I haven't seen our daily local paper yet, but tomorrow is "D" (for Dewani) Day and we will find out if the British courts will allow him to be extradited to S.A. Our guys have been there since Monday I think, probably confident they will be travelling back with him on a plane.
Kerouac - the rusty knives and razor blades are strictly reserved for the circumsicion of teenage boys born of the Xhosa Tribe ( Zuma & Mandela)!
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Post by tod2 on Jan 23, 2011 13:57:42 GMT
The Sunday papers once again had headlines about the Dewani case.
"Dewani Hitman: "A night of Murder, booze and Karaoke" On page 5 the story continues with the heading: "Shebeen karaoke after Anni's murder"
If anyone has been wondering about the late ill-fated jaunt to the area in which the shooting took place this seems to be what happened:
An hour after the murder was originally due to take place, Mngeni & Qwabe (the hitmen) were still desperately trying to find a lift from Gugulethu at a shebeen called "Sobs Shebeen". (A shebeen is an illegal, no license, drinking hole). When Zola Tongo the driver of the taxi with the Dewanis arrived at the arranged 'hit' location, the two hitmen were nowhere to be seen. He then drove them to the Strand where they had that hurried sushi dinner. While the hitmen finally got a lift from a patron in the shebeen, they were making calls back and forth to Tongo while the couple dined.
The Dewani's were then driven back to where the killing took place - after which the hitmen went back to "Sobs Shebeen". The hitman Qwabe sang karaoke and bought drinks for everyone. His co-hitman Mngeni had a desperate urge to get enough money for a ritual circumcision in the bush. His grandmother who has brought him up since he was five revealed that he had once shot another boy in an argument but got off that particular case.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2011 17:34:41 GMT
Next, I'm sure we will get the list of songs that they sang.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2011 20:50:44 GMT
He has to pay someone to circumcise him? *shudders* This just keeps on getting weirder. It's strange that anyone on their honeymoon would want to visit Gugulethu. It's look like the pits.
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Post by tod2 on Jan 24, 2011 8:07:10 GMT
Oh yes Deyana! You don't only pay some old tribesman to herd you into the bush, take a rusty razor blade or germ-ridden old knife and chop off the end of your winkie, you actually let him kill you! I would say more than a hundred young boys and men have died through botched circumsicions but that does not put them off one little bit There is your answer about keeping "our culture" alive (dead) and well! That shack photo is the recent housing - in the old apartheid days the government built the locals brick houses which still stand today.
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