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Post by onlymark on Jan 12, 2011 6:06:46 GMT
Are you looking for something a little different to do with your ashes when you've gone? More of a statement than just being hidden away in some anonymous cemetery? Why don't you have them scattered from fireworks, made into jewellery, put into a window, made into a diamond, made into a record or fired from a shotgun? The choices are many. My favourite would be the Viking burial. What's yours? www.scattering-ashes.co.uk/(You know that in the UK we can be buried (cremated or otherwise) in our garden? In fact anywhere with the land owners permission)
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Post by bixaorellana on Jan 12, 2011 6:33:36 GMT
Sheesh. I profoundly don't care what happens to my ashes. I've told my family just to get rid of my remains as cheaply and simply as possible and to ditch the ashes at the crematorium, unless that makes them feel weird. It really doesn't matter to me.
Where I lived in on the northern coast of North Carolina was all farmland. It seemed as though every field had an old family plot on it.
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Post by onlymark on Jan 12, 2011 6:50:05 GMT
I don't care what happens to me either - however - I am aware it could be that family members want some form of 'saying goodbye' to put the full stop at the end of someone's life. In effect it could be for them rather than for yourself.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jan 12, 2011 7:37:05 GMT
Well, I imagine that my passing would be acknowledged in some way and that's fine, too. I just want them to know that they're off the hook about it.
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Post by mickthecactus on Jan 12, 2011 9:19:39 GMT
Scattered at Kew gardens.
Oh, and I'm leaving my cactus collection to Bixa.
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Post by onlymark on Jan 12, 2011 9:28:25 GMT
Scattered at Kew Gardens in the cactus section?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 9:34:52 GMT
Shouldn't it all enrich the compost heap first?
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Post by mickthecactus on Jan 12, 2011 10:24:18 GMT
Wherever my (presumably) kids want to surreptitiously scatter them.
I suspect it wouldn't be too popular in the cactus section..............
Yup - compost heap if they can get to it (or want to...).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 10:33:01 GMT
I brought my father back from the United States in a plastic bag inside a cardboard box. The suitcase got lost in Dallas for 48 hours.
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Post by mickthecactus on Jan 12, 2011 11:41:49 GMT
I brought my father back from the United States in a plastic bag inside a cardboard box. The suitcase got lost in Dallas for 48 hours. I take it that he had passed on..............
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 12:21:49 GMT
No, he was really angry.
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Post by tod2 on Jan 12, 2011 12:43:03 GMT
In South Africa the Europeans and Indian nationalities have their relatives cremated but not so with the Africans. Even though they may live and work in cities, when passing on, those that have relatives still living in the countryside will most likely be buried in the garden of that home - usually right outside the front door or pretty near! This is in keeping with being able to contact the deceased in the future( I believe some are being buried with cellphones.........kidding!).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 13:06:18 GMT
Some people demand to be buried with cell phones now in case they wake up in the coffin.
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Post by tod2 on Jan 12, 2011 13:30:36 GMT
So maybe delaying a cremation for a week or two may also be prudent No ones going to hear you shouting above the roar of those gas burners.....ouch! About scattering ashes - I saw a lot of grey powdery stuff at the base of a standing stone in a circle of stones. I think it was in Wales but could have been somewhere else in England or even Scotland, but I am presuming these were someones ashes.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jan 12, 2011 16:31:44 GMT
Oh, and I'm leaving my cactus collection to Bixa. *vows to be nicer to SugarDaddy Mick in the future*
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 16:46:12 GMT
Great thread idea!!! Some funny stuff in here so far too!!! Had thought about this yes,quite a bit especially after the I don't want to even tell you how much money the funeral service persons got for my mother's funeral/burial arrangements. My brother handled that aspect of it. Jeez... I'm all for the compost heap. Cremation is my preference,but,most all the crematoriums I know of charge astronomical prices and what's to guarantee they're even going to be my ashes. I want it clear that no huge amount of money be spent on my remains etc. Here in NOLA we have "second line" Jazz funerals,where a dirge is played and then everyone breaks out into dance filling up the streets with music and much celebration. That's what I would like.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jan 12, 2011 17:20:51 GMT
The reason cremation is so expensive in the US is because there are all kinds of lobbyists for the funeral industry. I believe you even have to buy a casket for a cremation.
They really get you with stuff such as "thoughtfully" providing the thank-you notes. You could probably buy personalized Crane stationery for what the funeral homes charge for the low-end notes.
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Post by onlymark on Jan 12, 2011 17:37:54 GMT
The web site deal with what to do with your ashes, but as Casimira says, first you have to pay for the cremation. In the UK the funeral for my mother cost about 1800 pounds, and that was quite basic, for the cremation and a few words from some vicar who I'd never seen before. If you are strapped for cash you don't need to be cremated, unless you want to, and neither do you need to be buried in a recognised cemetery. Theoretically you can collect the body from the local mortuary at the hospital, wrap it in a shroud and bury it in your back garden. However, if you don't have a car I doubt many taxi firms would be willing to help. But the cost would be minimal. One place as a compromise could be a woodland burial, either with or without cremation - www.woodlandburialparks.co.uk/www.woodlandburials.co.uk/about.htmlWithout all the bells and whistles and a simple degradable coffin, it would be about a third of what the cremation cost for us.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 19:06:26 GMT
I will use the Paris municipal cremation service when my mother's time comes (assuming that she goes before I do -- you never know). I don't know what it costs, but I know it's the cheapest. Later (after figuring out if my brother wants to come), I will take the ashes to her home village to have them interred, where she will join her parents and my (step)father in the tomb, just a few steps away from her grandparents and a few other people in that tomb, usually children who died young back in those days. I am still amused that my adoptive father is buried in a village in France, since he was born in North Carolina, where his father is buried, while his mother was buried in Texas. Where one ends up is so odd! I kind of think that I will end up in my grandparents' village as well, if I manage to validate a testament before it is too late. I like the idea of the family being all together, at least as much as possible, along with many relatives and other family friends. I used to imagine that I would be buried in Père Lachaise in Paris, but that would be a foolish and costly vanity (why do dead people worry about the cost?).
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Post by mich64 on Jan 12, 2011 20:12:38 GMT
This is an informative thread. My experiences from the passing of friend's loved ones is that a minimal funeral with casket in Ontario seems to be about $10,000.00. I am unaware of the cost of cremation but it is lower.
As Bix says they offer all kinds of extras now explaining it is to ease your worries about thanking people. I find the whole business to be just that a business and unfortunately they wish to make as much money as possible.
When my grandparents passed away, their church was very supportive and the process was not that expensive and the Women's League made a buffet luncheon tea, no charge, that was held in the church basement hall.
It is when individuals do not belong to a church that the expenses mount. The Funeral Homes encouraging you to have more showings, having them print programs of the service, hiring a minister, providing a luncheon and doing photo thank you cards.
I have thought about what I would want, but at this point we still cannot decide.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 20:22:48 GMT
I just went on the Paris site, but you have to fill out a form to get an estimate of the cost, so no thank you, too creepy. An external site says it costs about 3500€ in Paris. Insurance companies usually cover the cost, though.
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Post by bjd on Jan 12, 2011 20:41:39 GMT
I think you have to take out a special insurance, Kerouac. We occasionally get letters from our mutuelle or other insurance companies offering insurance that will pay for the funeral. I saw what cremation costs, but don't remember right now.
Although I am not religious, I must admit that a simple cremation with no music or flowers or speeches is rather awful. I went to a funeral service in November for a friend. Her family had asked for no flowers, whereas she had always loved plants and flowers. There was no music, no nothing. Just one sister who gave a very professional sounding talk (retired university professor, so used to speaking in public). Then everybody just stood around and chatted with the family members while they waited for the ashes. It was sad.
I was hoping to add the You Tube video of the ash dispersal in The Big Lebowski, but it has been removed for copyright reasons. Too bad.
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Post by fumobici on Jan 12, 2011 21:25:55 GMT
I want to be stuffed and mounted. heh heh heh heh heh heh heh That's called a successful Friday night here.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jan 12, 2011 21:41:36 GMT
Yikes, Fumobici ~~ you caught me!
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Post by onlymark on Jan 12, 2011 21:47:56 GMT
Tell me, when is it that a person is at their most vulnerable and willing to just 'get it over with'? When is it that a person is suffering and is an easy target? When is it when a person is not thinking the most clearly and willing to let someone else sort it all out? When someone close to you has just died. Funeral service providers aren't there to make money, are they? They are doing it out of the goodness of their heart. Aren't they? None of them would ever take advantage of the situation by 'selling extras' by peer pressure or an appearance of what should be done. Would they?
I grant you there are those that are sympathetic, but they are all still there to make money. They've always got flash cars, haven't they?
Anyway. As regards all the family being buried together. That's only for the convenience of the rest of the family, in respect of a cute, cuddly feeling that "Awww, they're all together again at last". The dead probably aren't bothered at all. I can't see the point myself. If a family member died abroad I certainly wouldn't go to the time and trouble of trying to get their body back to the UK. They can be burnt or planted where they are. It's only a body, not the person.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 22:12:10 GMT
That's the convenience of incineration. I knew that it didn't really matter, but when my father died, it was important to bring 'him' back to France with my mother, at least for her sake anyway. It's all symbolic, but I do understand the importance of symbolism. If one has no values at all -- or symbols -- there's not much point in staying alive in the first place, is there? Even many animals appear to have some sort of concept of funeral rituals.
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Post by onlymark on Jan 13, 2011 4:36:05 GMT
I'd certainly bring ashes back for that reason, but it wouldn't bother me to have "some corner of a corner of a foreign field that is forever England." Kerouac, aren't you supposed to notify the airline or something if you are flying with human ashes? Did you?
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Post by frenchmystiquetour on Jan 13, 2011 8:35:10 GMT
Just remember not to have me show up and collect your ashes after you've been cremated. A friend died last year here in Paris (actually, the first person I befriended after moving here and who died about 2 months later). He died penniless, with few friends and nearly homeless with his only surviving relative being his 80 year old mother, who was infirmed and in a nursing home in Kansas. I spent a lot of time on the phone with her over the next few weeks since I was the only one here who could speak English and knew her son. This was indeed sad and there are other sad details I'll omit because Bob (my deceased friend) had a sense of humor so I'll get on with the comedy. There are all kinds of rules here about what you can do with human ashes but luckily there were a few nice folks at Père Lachaise who bent the rules for us and allowed us to take some ashes for a later ceremony. After most of the ashes were dispersed in the memory garden my friend and I were given the urn and told we could take the remainder. So, my friend (whose nickname is also Bob) and I got out our "urns" to take what was left. He had a large plastic tupperware container and I had a tin coffee can. Neither of us were familiar with how the urn works when you disperse the ashes so he held his tupperware container under the urn and pulled the handle to release the ashes. This is when "The Big Lebowski" comedy of errors began. Lots of the ashes went into the container and the remainder landed on his hand and forearm . So he stopped dispersing them as we pondered how best to gracefully recover the remaining ashes while also trying to recover some of our dignity. Meanwhile, he had ashes all over his hand so he did what most people would do if they spilled something on their hand and wiped it on his jacket, which as you might imagine left huge gray streaks on his jacket. My hands were clean so I tried wiping the ashes off his jacket, which just smeared them and turned my hand gray. Refocusing on the urn he just pulled the handle again and made a big pile of ashes on the ground. Hmmmm, we thought, how are we were going to get them from the ground into our "urns". So we did the obvious and just sort of dipped our containers into the pile to scoop up as much as we could, raising a dust cloud and getting more ash dust all over our hands. Having made a complete mockery of decorum at this point we stared at each other for a moment and then stared at our dirty hands before wiping them on our jackets. You already know what happens when you do that. Leaving Père Lachaise, both of us covered in ashes, we popped into a nearby bar for a drink to celebrate a job poorly done. My ashes were in a tin can that was one of a matching set of three Mrs. FMT was displaying on a shelf in our kitchen. Returning home I placed the tin back on the shelf to make the set complete once again at which point the Mrs. shrieked "What are you doing?!?!". So I wisely opted to put them in a closet in the second bedroom. Some time later Bob and I spread a portion of the ashes at various places around Paris. The remainder are in storage (in Bob's garage) until some of "departed Bob's" friends from the states can make it to Paris for a hopefully more formal and befitting dispersal ceremony.
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Post by Kimby on Jan 13, 2011 8:44:56 GMT
As regards all the family being buried together. That's only for the convenience of the rest of the family, in respect of a cute, cuddly feeling that "Awww, they're all together again at last". The dead probably aren't bothered at all. I am all for cremation, EXCEPT, I feel we are losing touch with the past and many people today can't even name their great grandparents. Cemetaries, especially ones where many related people are buried or their ashes are deposited, do provide the simple documentation of names, dates and relationships. All of my Otis kin are in one or 2 country cemetaries in Michigan, but beginning with my grandmother, cremation began to take over burials. Her name is on the stone with Grandpa, but her younger siblings' ashes were simply scattered in the marsh at the old family farm, with no markers anywhere. My Dad's sister died last year and was cremated. To avoid the expense of opening the grave to bury her ashes with her parents, if that would even have been allowed, the remaining family brought a nice potted plant to the cemetary and in the process of planting it on the family plot, each person slipped a scoopful of Aunt Midge's ashes into the hole. Sweet, simple, meaningful. But no marker. I hate that the names are being lost. But there ARE too many of us, aren't there, for everyone to have a nice 4x6 plot and still have room for houses and farms and towns...
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Post by onlymark on Jan 13, 2011 9:45:57 GMT
You well illustrate the point that doing this sort of thing is for the living and not the dead. I see nothing wrong in that as long as it is acknowledged and not covered up by saying it's what the deceased would have wanted, when they might not have done. I'm not saying that's what you'd do, I'm just giving an opinion.
In my mind the wishes of the person involved is paramount and unless they are non compos mentis, should have already been asked. Quite a few years ago, just as my mother was in the initial stages of being seriously ill, I had a discussion with her and my father together about what they wanted. My mother wanted to be cremated and then buried under a tree in the local cemetery. No problem, we did that. My father, for reasons a bit too long to go in to at the moment, wanted to be cremated, his ashes taken to Kenya and carried on a motorbike to the top of the Ngong Hills south of Nairobi, and then scattered. I will do this when the time comes.
I'd asked my father if he wanted to be buried next to my mother, his reply was, "You're joking. I've been married to her now for sixty three years, isn't that eternity enough?" After a cushion winged it's way into the side of his head my mother said, "At least I'll get some sleep without you bloody snoring".
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