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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 22, 2011 17:19:47 GMT
It's hard to keep up with the changes, as they're coming so quickly. However, this chart might prove useful. Click on it to be taken to a full-sized version showing the countries that wouldn't fit here, plus links to news stories. I guess everyone has seen this pic. What was the weather report in that time frame for where he claimed to be? Note: this layout looks fine on the page in FF, but naturally is messed up for me in IE. Hope everyone can see it okay.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2011 6:18:59 GMT
I fear that the rivulets of blood are on the verge of becoming rivers.
However, I saw that some imam put out a fatwa on Qadhafi, making it all right to kill him.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2011 15:55:51 GMT
There has been encouraging news in Libya, Yemen and Bahrain today but at a cost of about 1000 lives so far. Maybe Libya will require 1000 more.
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Post by lola on Feb 24, 2011 1:26:52 GMT
The US needs to raise gasoline taxes by at least $1/gallon, as Thomas Friedman recommends today.
What's the story with that photo of Qaddafi, bixa?
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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 24, 2011 3:03:42 GMT
Lola, that's from the brief speech he made the other day. He was seated in a van and made a point of saying that he was in Tripoli, not Venezuela. He also stuck his hand out & commented that it was raining.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2011 10:02:59 GMT
It appears that the part of Libya under rebel control is only 125 km from Tripoli now. It may all take another few days.
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Post by gertie on Feb 24, 2011 16:08:38 GMT
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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 25, 2011 5:08:28 GMT
It must be terrifying there right now. One ferry sent to evacuate people is stuck in Tripoli harbor because of bad weather. There are 300 people aboard. That's in addition to the other horrors of war: A French doctor in Benghazi, Gerrard Buffet, told the BBC that as many as 2,000 people might have died in the east alone. ... A witness in Zawiya, 50km (30 miles) to the west, said an army unit had attacked protesters with machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades. Good, up-to-date article: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12575206I got that link from this site: www.breakingnews.com
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Post by Jazz on Feb 25, 2011 8:07:27 GMT
Let me be the first to confess, it’s all overwhelming to me. I have no idea where this is all going. On the days when I ‘get it up’ and feel strong enough to face what is gradually happening, I follow the complex coverage. You can just read and read and read. (read forever if you want.) If you are really listening, it is stunning. Powerful, intense, frightening, unknown, exciting. ‘'Read between the lines' is good advice. We, in the western world, have been and are, until now, so safe and innocent and really have no idea how this feels if you live in one of these countries. It is so easy to follow from afar and to intellectualize. Much like watching a film. It’s not a film, it’s not an article in the New York times or the London Guardian etc., it’s not a ‘liberal discussion’ with friends at dinner or online. It’s really happening. And, I feel that the world will never be the same, with time (the next 20 years, maximum), the position of the western world will have changed irrevocably.
The power and speed of events is overwhelming. These factors are significant to me:
1. The impact of the internet…facebook, google, twitter. Their young people are becoming more aware by the moment. Freedom, awareness and chaos, unchecked.
2. The population of these countries. I think 50% or more, are under 25? Families with many children. North American society is old and becoming older by the hour. Our families are now often 2 children maximum, if at all. We are graying and becoming older, these countries are young and vital. (just think of the next 50 years).
3. Why are we really so attentive?: Oil. We still have not intelligently addressed the subject of our dependence on Middle Eastern/North African oil. Pathetic really, given that we have had at least 30 years to think and create alternatives…but are still mumbling, writing articles, discussing etc….but not acting. Just reacting.
The problem with intellectualizing and only reacting is that life goes on and changes, despite our articles, our debates, our sound bytes. Then we are forced to deal with the changes.
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Post by onlymark on Feb 25, 2011 9:30:58 GMT
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Post by onlymark on Feb 25, 2011 9:40:12 GMT
The British response to evacuation has been heavily criticised, and for good reason. However, I do enjoy the fact that the SAS is on standby just in case.
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Post by bjd on Feb 25, 2011 12:34:27 GMT
An obvious quandary for the "international community": The guy's a lunatic, but he supplies oil, has pots of money in our banks, buys weapons from us and is killing people.
A sticky on TT's Africa branch has a couple of posts from people who were taken out of Libya -- one guy who had been on a tour said his flight was only 1/4 full going to Milan. On Al Afriquiya, the Libyan airline, with British crew. I'm sure his flight was not the only nearly empty one.
One of the things I find strange with the talk of the thousands of foreign workers in Libya. Why are there Filipinos, Turks, Chinese, Egyptians etc working in Libya? Isn't high unemployment among youth one of the problems in the Middle East? Those thousands are not all engineers in the oil business -- you see foreigners trying to get out with their bundles and electric fans. Why don't Libyans have those jobs?
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Post by onlymark on Feb 25, 2011 14:34:16 GMT
Just to give a generalisation here - the Egyptians are there to work in fairly menial jobs as there are few in their home country, plus the pay is better. The Chinese will be there because of different engineering projects, they will be middle management and above. Turkish? Don't know. The Filipinos will be mostly domestic workers (female) as they are valued far more highly than middle eastern domestic help. The Filipino men will be on a par with the Egyptian men.
A lot of jobs here in Egypt are done not by Egyptians but by foreign workers. It is the same in Libya where the locals, even though not having jobs, wont lower themselves often to getting a menial job - too second class, they prefer a foreigner does it and then they can treat them badly without a second thought. You'll also find many African nations there, usually also in menial jobs and domestic help.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 14:59:16 GMT
We do that in Europe, too.
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Post by bjd on Feb 25, 2011 15:01:20 GMT
That reminds me of something in the book about the Middle East I just read (The media relations department of Hizbollah wishes you a happy birthday) that I mentioned elsewhere.
The author talks about seeing a demonstration in one of the Gulf countries: men in front, women behind, and further back, foreign workers picking up the garbage thrown by the demonstrators.
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Post by onlymark on Feb 25, 2011 15:36:43 GMT
True enough Kerouac. Just as a sidebar, here are a couple of websites detailing domestic staff for hire in Egypt. The prices tend to be for expats but you can get staff cheaper without going through an agency. If you notice on the first one the list from Filipino down to Nigerian. This is in the order of desirability which reflected in the pay they get. www.mastereg.com/filippien.htmlwww.expat-service.net/prices.html
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 22:17:56 GMT
From Al Jazeera:
Most of Libya is out of control of the government, and Muammar Gaddafi's grip on power may soon be confined only to the capital, Tripoli, Libya's former interior minister has said.
General Abdul Fatteh Younis told Al Jazeera on Saturday that he had called upon Gaddafi to end his resistance to the uprising, although he does not expect him to do so.
The embattled Libyan regime passed out guns to civilian supporters, set up checkpoints and sent out armed patrols, witnesses said in Tripoli. Some of Libya's security forces reportedly have given up the fight. Footage believed to be filmed on Friday showed soldiers joining the protesters.
The footage showed demonstrators carrying them on their shoulders in the city of Az Zawiyah after having defected -- a scene activists said is being repeated across the country.
Al Jazeera, however, is unable to independently verify the content of the video, which was obtained via social networking websites.
Our correspondent in Libya reported on Friday that army commanders in the east who had defected had told her that military commanders in the country's west were also beginning to turn against Gaddafi.
They warned, however, that the Khamis Brigade, an army special forces brigade that is loyal to the Gaddafi family and is equipped with sophisticated weapons, is currently still fighting anti-government forces.
Our correspondent, who cannot be named for security reasons, said that despite the gains, people are anxious about what Gaddafi might do next and also because his loyalists were still at large.
Clearly, Tripoli is not really under government control either, since the French TV reporters are already reporting directly from the capital for the evening news.
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Post by onlymark on Feb 27, 2011 12:40:33 GMT
The British response to evacuation has been heavily criticised, and for good reason. However, I do enjoy the fact that the SAS is on standby just in case. And I do enjoy that they did what they are good at in conjunction with the most professional of the services, the RAF.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2011 15:26:38 GMT
It's starting to look like Qadhafi and his kids might still be hanging out in a bunker by the time Yemen falls. And now things are heating up in Oman, too.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2011 19:05:54 GMT
I am becoming upset and impatient by this Libya shit.
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 3, 2011 16:31:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2011 5:51:42 GMT
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 7, 2011 7:28:34 GMT
Interesting to read that entirely sincere and undoubtedly factual news item after reading this morning that Saudi Arabia "won't tolerate demonstrations".
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 10, 2011 15:39:34 GMT
This article from Reuters indicates that Saudis are at least pondering mass protests: www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/10/us-saudi-protests-activists-idUSTRE72924H20110310So far, any demonstrations in Saudi Arabia have been small and heavily repressed. Read the article -- these are not petty demands. This Guardian article is more in-depth, with more background. It says in part: Saudi Arabia shares many problems common to the Arab world – a youth "bulge," lack of opportunities for graduates, precious few political freedoms, plus an absence of transparency and accountability by an absolute monarchy that includes 8,000 princes. Restrictions on women – who are not allowed to drive and cannot travel abroad without the permission of a male relative – are another big negative. The notorious religious police are another. Torture is frequently used on detainees. Unemployment between the ages of 14 and 24 is 40% – in a country where almost 70% of the population is under 20.
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 13, 2011 0:01:35 GMT
The Arab League called on the United Nations Security Council to impose a no-fly zone on Libya, increasing pressure on Europe and the US to embark on limited military action against the regime of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi. full article here
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Post by bjd on Mar 13, 2011 8:44:45 GMT
Why doesn't the Arab League do something on its own? They want Europe and the US to take the flak if anything goes wrong.
I haven't had much info lately, but a few weeks ago commentators on Al Jazeera were saying that the Arab League is rather useless and just holds meetings, without coming to any decisions.
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Post by onlymark on Mar 13, 2011 10:13:50 GMT
A bit like the UN then.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2011 10:15:01 GMT
I don't understand all the talks about this no-fly zone. What will happen if Kadhaffi continues the airstrikes. What will he get other than a 'strong condemnation' from the UN?
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 13, 2011 18:03:03 GMT
That also puzzles me, Askar. In the article linked at #84 above, there is this: Beforethe meeting, Amr Moussa, the secretary general of the Arab League and one of its most influential diplomats, had thrown his weight behind the air exclusion zone, saying it was the only way to protect Libyans from Gaddafi's "disdainful" regime. "I do not know who will impose this zone, nor how, that remains to be seen," he said, in an interview with Germany's Der Spiegel magazine. So, they want someone to step in with military intervention, correct? How else could the zone be imposed? Looking at the UN's track record with other countries where the inhabitants are brutalized by their rulers, I don't see where much could be expected of it, other than a strong "tsk tsk". As a person who truly hates the US's intervention in the business of other countries, with Libya I find myself wishing that the US -- or some country(s) -- would step in.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2011 18:48:41 GMT
I think that in the past, it was made clear that in a no-fly zone, planes would be shot down or intercepted and taken to an exterior airport if they defied the decision.
But to what extent was it ever done (northern Iraq or Libya 15 years ago)? I have no idea.
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