Puebla de los Ángeles

[bixaorellana]

Kimby, that would be so exciting! Gad, imagine if you & Mich managed to make it here at the same time -- pissup!

Yes, you do need to get back. Come here first, & we'll go up to Puebla together. Or fly into Puebla & we'll bus back to Oaxaca.

It really helps to keep the camera handy at all times, especially in a place like Puebla. As I said earlier, I could have just pointed it around at random & come up with great pictures.

Speaking of which, I imagine no one can see my photos right now.

Photobucket is doing some kind of site maintenance & 2% of their users have been affected for over 20 hours. I see poor FMT is one of the affected.

The thread on Puebla's cathedral is not an empty promise. However, my booster station or some other thingy affecting my internet has also had problems, so I couldn't upload anything even before Photobucket stabbed me in the back.

Anyway, thanks greatly for your kind words & I'm going to hold you to your plan to visit Mexico.

[bixaorellana]

Finally! Today my internet connection was finally fixed. That, and the fact that photobucket finally stopped mousing around, meant that I could launch the thread on the breathtakingly beautiful cathedral of Puebla.
anyportinastorm.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=mexico&thread=4951&page=1#107830

I do hope you all will look in!

[Kimby]

Apr 12, 2011 22:40:38 GMT bixaorellana said:

Kimby, that would be so exciting! Gad, imagine if you & Mich managed to make it here at the same time -- pissup!

Yes, you do need to get back. Come here first, & we'll go up to Puebla together. Or fly into Puebla & we'll bus back to Oaxaca.

I will have to visit with my potential travel pal about a trip to Mexico, since Mr. Kimby has been less than enthusiastic about travel lately.

[bixaorellana]

Tomorrow is the fifth of May -- cinco de Mayo -- a holiday more celebrated to honor Mexican culture in the US than in Mexico.


However, the city of Puebla does celebrate it, as the battle it commemorates took place there in 1862.


I just finished an interesting novel (#635) about this period of Mexican history, which helped put it into perspective for me, but left me wanting to know more of the background.


See below for an explanation of the events leading to the battle.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The following text was lifted whole from About.com.

Cinco de Mayo is a Mexican holiday which celebrates the victory over French forces on May 5, 1862 at the Battle of Puebla. It is often mistakenly thought to be Mexico’s Independence Day, which is actually September 16. More of an emotional victory than a military one, to Mexicans the Battle of Puebla represents Mexican resolve and bravery in the face of an overwhelming foe.

The Reform War
The Battle of Puebla was not an isolated incident: there is a long and complicated history that led up to it. In 1857, the “Reform War” broke out in Mexico. It was a civil war and it pitted Liberals (who believed in separation of church and state and freedom of religion) against the Conservatives (who favored a tight bond between the Roman Catholic Church and the Mexican State). This brutal, bloody war left the nation in shambles and bankrupt. When the war was over in 1861, Mexican President Benito Juarez suspended all payment of foreign debt: Mexico simply did not have any money.

Foreign Intervention
This angered Great Britain, Spain and France, countries which were owed a great deal of money. The three nations agreed to work together to force Mexico to pay. The United States, which had considered Latin America its “backyard” since the Monroe Doctrine (1823), was going through a Civil War of its own and in no position to do anything about European intervention in Mexico.

In December 1861 armed forces of the three nations arrived off the coast of Veracruz and landed a month later, in January 1862. Desperate last-minute diplomatic efforts by the Juarez administration persuaded Britain and Spain that a war that would further devastate the Mexican economy was in no one’s interest, and Spanish and British forces left with promise of future payment. France, however, was unconvinced and French forces remained on Mexican soil.

French March on Mexico City
French forces captured the city of Campeche on February 27 and reinforcements from France arrived soon after. By early March, France’s modern military machine had an efficient army in place, poised to capture Mexico City. Under the command of the Count of Lorencez, a veteran of the Crimean War, the French Army set out for Mexico City. When they reached Orizaba, they held up for a while, as many of their troops had become ill. Meanwhile, an army of Mexican regulars under the command of 33 year-old Ignacio Zaragoza marched to meet him. The Mexican Army was about 4,500 men strong: the French numbered approximately 6,000 and were much better armed and equipped than the Mexicans. The Mexicans occupied the city of Puebla and its two forts, Loreto and Guadalupe.

French Attack
On the morning of May 5, Lorencez moved to attack. He believed that Puebla would fall easily: his incorrect information suggested that the garrison was much smaller than it really was and that the people of Puebla would surrender easily rather than risk much damage to their city. He decided on a direct assault, ordering his men to concentrate on the strongest part of the defense: Guadalupe fortress, which stood on a hill overlooking the city. He believed that once his men had taken the fort and had a clear line to the city, the people of Puebla would be demoralized and would surrender quickly. Attacking the fortress directly would prove a major mistake.

Lorencez moved his artillery into position and by noon had begun shelling Mexican defensive positions. He ordered his infantry to attack three times: each time they were repulsed by the Mexicans. The Mexicans were almost overrun by these assaults, but bravely held their lines and defended the forts. By the third attack, the French artillery was running out of shells and therefore the final assault was unsupported by artillery.

French Retreat
The third wave of French infantry was forced to retreat. It had begun to rain, and the foot troops were moving slowly. With no fear of the French artillery, Zaragoza ordered his cavalry to attack the retreating French troops. What had been an orderly retreat became a rout, and Mexican regulars streamed out of the forts to pursue their foes. Lorencez was forced to move the survivors to a distant position and Zaragoza called his men back to Puebla. At this point in the battle, a young general named Porfirio Díaz made a name for himself, leading a cavalry attack.

“The National Arms have covered themselves in Glory”
It was a sound defeat for the French. Estimates place French casualties around 460 dead with almost that many wounded, while only 83 Mexicans were killed.

Lorencez’s quick retreat prevented the defeat from becoming a disaster, but still the battle became a huge morale-booster for the Mexicans. Zaragoza sent a message to Mexico City, famously declaring “Las armas nacionales se han cubierto de gloria” or “The national arms (weapons) have covered themselves in glory.” In Mexico City, President Juarez declared May 5th a national holiday in remembrance of the battle.

Aftermath
The Battle of Puebla was not very important to Mexico from a military standpoint. Lorencez was allowed to retreat and hold onto the towns he had already captured. Soon after the battle, France sent 27,000 troops to Mexico under a new commander, Elie Frederic Forey. This massive force was well beyond anything the Mexicans could resist, and it swept into Mexico City in June of 1863. On the way, they besieged and captured Puebla. The French installed Maximilian of Austria, a young Austrian nobleman, as Emperor of Mexico. Maximilian’s reign lasted until 1867, when President Juarez was able to drive the French out and restore the Mexican government. Young General Zaragoza died of typhoid not long after the Battle of Puebla.

Although the Battle of Puebla amounted to little from a military sense – it merely postponed the inevitable victory of the French army, which was larger, better trained and better equipped than the Mexicans – it nevertheless meant a great deal to Mexico in terms of pride and hope. It showed them that the mighty French war machine was not invulnerable, and that determination and courage were powerful weapons.

The victory was a huge boost to Benito Juarez and his government. It allowed him to hold onto power at a time when he was in danger of losing it, and it was Juarez who eventually led his people to victory against the French in 1867.

The battle also marks the arrival on the political scene of Porfirio Díaz, then a brash young general who disobeyed Zaragoza in order to chase down fleeing French troops. Díaz would eventually get a lot of the credit for the victory and he used his new fame to run for president against Juárez. Although he lost, he would eventually reach the presidency and lead his nation for many years.

[bixaorellana]

As mentioned above, the Cinco de Mayo is not that big of a deal in all of Mexico. However, it would probably be a fun time to be in Puebla. Here's a video from last year's parade there, from an absolutely delightful YouTube channel called The Sound of Puebla.

You'll see floats mentioned in the video. The term for them in Spanish is one of my favorites -- carros alegoricos. Float is easier to say, but allegorical car is more fun.

Enjoy the parade with several enthusiastic viewers and one confirmed cynic ~~

[Deleted]

That's really interesting, but it's kind of funny to see a modern army parading when one might expect costumed horsemen with feathery plumes or something. After all, they are not really celebrating current Mexican military might... or are they?

I am also wondering who decided in the United States (perhaps in other countries, too?) that Cinco de Mayo was the big celebration day. I know that it was considered to be the most important day when I lived in California.

Unfortunately, the "Year of Mexico" was cancelled in France this year due to that stupid woman-in-prison dispute or otherwise I would have already learned a lot more things about Mexican culture this year.

[Don Cuevas]

That was great, Bixa. It took me a month to get around to reading this thread.

"Gad, imagine if you & Mich managed to make it here at the same time -- pissup!"
We'd try to attend! Pulque and cemitas; what a combo.

Did you see Restaurante Chino Man Fug Lou? It's not far from Tacos Árabes Las Ranas.

[bixaorellana]

May 5, 2011 18:11:42 GMT kerouac2 said:

That's really interesting, but it's kind of funny to see a modern army parading when one might expect costumed horsemen with feathery plumes or something. After all, they are not really celebrating current Mexican military might... or are they?

I am also wondering who decided in the United States (perhaps in other countries, too?) that Cinco de Mayo was the big celebration day. I know that it was considered to be the most important day when I lived in California.

Unfortunately, the "Year of Mexico" was cancelled in France this year due to that stupid woman-in-prison dispute or otherwise I would have already learned a lot more things about Mexican culture this year.

What about the guys at 2:44? Aren't those old-fashioned uniforms with cockaded hats? And they're carrying hawks, live hawks! I don't know about the group at 1:32, whether those are old uniforms or not.

Ha -- I was really wrong! Just looked up the Mexican army.
Here's a picture from Wikipedia:

Infantry Sergeant Cadet 2nd class, holding a golden eagle
depicted in the Heroic Military College coat of arms.

They're carrying eagles -- cool!

The Wikipedia article is pretty interesting.
The Mexican Armed Forces' three objectives are the repulsion of external aggressions, protection of internal security, and to aid the civilian population in case of natural disaster.

That last is probably why the population feels fairly warmly towards the army, as they really are johnny-on-the-spot when disaster strikes. The army is all over the place -- tons of checkpoints where they search your car, for instance. They're always unfailingly polite and sort of apologetic.

As to why the celebration is so big in the US -- this blog has Carlos from Mexico City weighing in with his plausible theory:
The reason Ive heard it is such a big celebration in yhe US includes 2 factors. First, it sounded quite difficult for the first mexican immigrants to celebrate an independence in a foreingn country, and 2nd, a lot of this immigrants were fron the state of Puebla, where the 5 de mayo battle took place, so they chose this date to have a mexican celebration.

However, before we too hastily dismiss the US celebrations, we must turn our eyes to what I consider to be a cultural high-water mark ~~ chihuahua races!!!

These take place in Tucson & Chandler, Arizona, in Los Angeles, and in other lucky cities as well.

It's good that the dispute is being kept alive. You might be interested to know that I mentioned this to a friend the other day, & she knew nothing of it. So, you are a Force for Good. Anyway, I expect you here the first chance you get, so that you can learn Mexican culture first-hand. That's unless you use the time to hit the chihuaha races instead.

Speaking of which, chihuahuas in Mexico are called chihuahuenses, if any of you wish to start using that & turn into the kind of people who insist upon saying "kinema".

Don Cuevas, yes to pissup, but no to pulque, but yes to pasita, which I did not get to try in Puebla.

Aaaarrrrgghhh ~~ NO, I didn't see the restaurante chino or I would have rushed in for a Chinese food hit, so sadly lacking here.

One note about the area that doesn't show up in guide books. There is a smell around the southeast corner of the zócalo that provokes instant, intense hunger. We didn't realize it at first, but it seemed every time we were around there, one of us would say, "Hey -- are you hungry?"
It was the Kentucky Fried Chicken place.

[bixaorellana]

Oh yeah -- I was in a cab last night & the driver told me that there was going to be a parade downtown today, the 6th. Apparently the military part of the parade had occurred on the 5th, out on the army base. I entertained the notion of going for about 12 seconds before coming to my senses.

Mexicans have a vast tolerance for parades. There are now zillions of videos up on youtube showing this year's parade in Puebla. I looked at one of them -- 3 minutes of the Navy marching, with the crowd going wild. Good thing we weren't attacked by sea on the fifth.

[Don Cuevas]

We didn't actually eat at that Chinese restaurant, as we we on our way to Tacos Árabes Las Ranas. The name of the Chinese buffet place appealed to my warped mind, nothing more.

About the Tacos Árabes: I first tried them in Oaxaca, and liked them, although lacking the adobo which gives tacos al pastor their pizazz. (The place is called "La Lechuza")
The ones in Puebla were far better. After sampling the Árabes, I went on to try their pastores, which were even better. Note that salsas and I think other condiments are on the tables, so you can dress your tacos al gusto.

Below is a picture of the tacos al pastor.
(Europeans: think "shwarma" or kebab, only tastier.)
The little yellow chunk to the right is a bit of fresh pineapple.

[bixaorellana]

We had tacos Árabes the first night we were there, I think right on the zócalo. We were greatly underwhelmed. I was also annoyed that in order to get yogurt to add moisture and interest to the boring things, I had to pay 20 pesos for a cup of it. We tried the pastores, too, and felt strong Oaxacan chauvinism. Next time I'll go to Tacos Rana.

I know where La Lechuza is, and even tried to eat there once (it was closed).

[Margie Hord]

As to the questions about the purple-flowered tree, that is my favorite: jacarandas! I love spring here in Puebla with the exuberant jacarandas matching the colors of Holy Week...

[bixaorellana]

Hello, Margie and thank you for adding to my pleasure in jacaranda season by pointing out that color relationship.

[nycgirl]

Wow, what a terrific thread! Puebla looks incredibly charming! I love all the beautiful architecture and street art and the cheery, vibrant colors. And the food photos are making me hungry!

I have to revisit this again, so much good stuff to look at!

[bixaorellana]

What a churl I am! Months later, I thank you, NYCGirl for your kind comments.

Ini-güey ~~ I came back to this thread to add this webcam of Puebla I just found. The camera is placed in the hotel where we ultimately stayed.
www.webcamsdemexico.com/webcam-puebla-centro.html

[robles tortas in cholula pue]

Wow that taco el pastor looks so good. Here in Cholula they cut it off a spindle they call it taco from the split. and is not in big slices like that but looks really inviting. There is a small place here in Cholula called Candido they sell the best taco el pastor and arabic i have ever had. its a little pricey at $23 pesos per taco and might i add you can not just eat one lol but they are huge served with cheese and all the fixings a must try if you are ever in the Cholula area.

[bixaorellana]

Yum -- great info, RoblesTortas! I found Puebla uses different words for food than Oaxaca. For instance, we say lechesilla for the filling in empanadas, whereas in Puebla they say crema.

I really need to do the eating tour of your area!

(aside to DonC -- I finally ate at La Lechuza & it was good)

Hey, Robles -- you might like this thread. It started off about tacos & spread out to many other delicias del comal: anyportinastorm.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=anecdotes&action=display&thread=5484&page=1

[bixaorellana]

This is great! Click to see a daily time-lapse of the sky in Puebla.

webcamsdemexico.com/webcam-puebla-la-noria

[htmb]

Thanks for this, bixa. I loved seeing the weather and light transitions.

[bixaorellana]

Thank you, Htmb. I'm embarrassed to say that I'd forgotten I'd posted a link to one of Puebla's webcams further up the thread.

It's hard to look at that picture without thinking, "city on the plain". ;D