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Post by bixaorellana on Aug 20, 2011 17:05:04 GMT
Yes, but ............. what are the garbage collectors demands? Are they reasonable? Have they tried all conventional methods for getting better work conditions/wages/whatever?
When reasonable demands by workers or the general population are not met, sometimes a more dramatic option is the next logical step. The garbage workers ripping open the piled-up bags is a graphic way to show what happens if there are no garbage workers.
If their reasonable demands are being consistently ignored, then the police action is arrogant and reprehensible. There has to be some step between being appalled at the garbage-ripping and treating people in such a potentially harmful way.
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Post by auntieannie on Aug 20, 2011 20:01:21 GMT
I agree with you, bixabella.
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Post by tod2 on Aug 21, 2011 8:28:08 GMT
Bixa - As far as I am aware the municipal workers put forward a wage demand of 18% after receiving a substantial increase 12 months ago. When their union's demand was turned down they proceeded to strike. This strike included the rampage through the city streets scattering garbage, smashing car windows, setting bins on fire, looting the vendors with their stalls on the sidewalks, accosting shoppers even down to a woman with a baby in a pram. I should imagine that this was when the police said, enough is enough!
The offer on the table is 6% and lately the union said it would settle for 10%. This first demand was clearly unrealistic and I think it stupid to get workers hopes up to that is what they will get if they go further than just a peaceful protest. Unfortunately for the city, the strikers intimidated other essential services by forcing them to cut the power and water to various parts of the city in hopes that the residents will complain. Businesses like hairdressers were left with clients midway through a perm or shampoo so that put them out of business for some hours. Hospitals have their own generators but I don't know about water supply. I know restaurants slowed and could only serve meals prepared on gas. A large shoe factory lost a day's turnover amounting to R440,000 and the 320 workers sent home loosing a that days pay. The most inconvenience was that the traffic lights were out so caused slower movement through the streets. Sources in the municipality said some union members were using the strike as a way to settle political scores. Private contractors were attacked when they were hired to clear up the mess.
Through all this we just let them get on with it - complaining was what the strikers wanted but I didn't waste a phone call.
Hope that explains it a bit better.
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Post by komsomol on Aug 21, 2011 16:00:26 GMT
Garbage men (women), just like sewer workers, should get great respect from all of us. In some places, they might get paid correctly but probably in most places people who pick up shit get shit pay. Not fair.
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Post by bixaorellana on Aug 21, 2011 18:25:38 GMT
Thanks for the longer version, Tod. Still, my take (admittedly from afar) is that something has made those workers unhappy enough to practice civil disobedience. Also, what do the various news media in your area say about the utilities workers being intimidated? Were they coerced, or was it their way of showing solidarity with their fellow city workers, the trash collectors? I've seen enough posturing by both government (federal, state, & local) and strikers here to be somewhat cynical, but at the same time, I feel most people aren't moved to strike unless they're really fed to the teeth with their circumstances. And, back to Tottenham ....... There's an extremely interesting and illuminating article in The Guardian. It says in part: One of the most striking features to emerge is the proportion of those who have appeared in court so far who come from deprived neighbourhoods.
A Liverpool University urban planning lecturer, Alex Singleton, analysed the Guardian's preliminary data by overlaying the addresses of defendants with the poverty indicators mapped by England's Indices of Multiple Deprivation, which breaks the country into small geographical areas.
He found that the majority of people who have appeared in court live in poor neighbourhoods, with 41% of suspects living in one of the top 10% of most deprived places in the country. The data also shows that 66% of neighbourhoods where the accused live got poorer between 2007 and 2010.
Singleton said: "Rioting is deplorable. However, if events such as this are to be mitigated in the future, the prevailing conditions and constraints affecting people living in areas must form part of the discussion. A 'broken society' happens somewhere, and geography matters."
The findings are backed up by research carried out by the Institute of Public Policy Research (IPPR) published this week. The thinktank looked at the relationship between different indicators of poverty and deprivation and the boroughs where violence and looting took place.
Researchers found that in almost all of the worst-affected areas, youth unemployment and child poverty were significantly higher than the national average while education attainment was significantly lower.
"Child poverty rates in local authorities where riots flared are stubbornly high," it stated. "While poverty is no excuse for criminality, it places additional pressure on families not only to make ends meet but also to spend time together … The political debate is likely to rage on for some time but there is also an urgent need to understand what is happening in communities where violence flared."
The Guardian's analysis is based on unprecedented access to court results granted by the Ministry of Justice. After a request from the Guardian it instructed all courts to provide full lists of results for all riot-related cases. These have been compiled by the individual courts and have never before been released on such a scale.Read the full report here
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Post by onlymark on Aug 21, 2011 19:52:21 GMT
I've not had time to read through all this thread but the Guardian article begs the following comment from me. Where it says - "One of the most striking features to emerge is the proportion of those who have appeared in court so far who come from deprived neighbourhoods."
It's not striking, it's obvious. However, it's a statistic and like all statistics, can be manipulated to suit the ends of the person quoting it. Firstly, it wouldn't strike me as a surprise that so many who are caught and convicted are from poor neighbourhoods. You do get the Jeremy's and Jemima's rioting, but it's rare surely. And if it comes as a surprise to a "Liverpool University urban planning lecturer, Alex Singleton" then he lives in a different world to me.
Secondly, if 41% are from poor neighbourhoods then 59% aren't. I ask myself if the article would be any good if it was headed "Large majority of rioters don't come from deprived areas". Benjamin Disraeli/Mark Twain - "Lies, damned lies, and statistics"
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Post by tod2 on Aug 22, 2011 14:17:38 GMT
what do the various news media in your area say about the utilities workers being intimidated? The news media only reported that when the privateers tried to resist and carry on with the clear-up they were assaulted so most ran away. I have been told that the rubbish collectors do get paid extremely well for the job they do. I have no way of knowing the extent of their pay packets but obviously they expected that huge hike in their annual raise. My main point was that unlike the Tottenham Riots which got completely out of hand, our city police still had the unruly scenes fresh on their minds and were not going to let the same thing happen here. No-one was seriously hurt or injured fortunately by the steps taken. All such a terrible shambles really.
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