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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2010 21:24:35 GMT
Before this little country disappears, let's see if we can understand it.
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Post by hwinpp on Dec 6, 2010 4:01:26 GMT
It used to be the fourth greatest power in the world? When was that?
Belgium is an enigma. I think it's only still there because the EU has invested so much there. Otherwise it's pretty much an artificial entity. I don't even remember when it was, or why it was, founded. A result of the Napoleonic Wars? Or the Spanish War of Inheritance?
The fries are good though. In fact I've never had a bad meal there. ;D
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Post by lagatta on Dec 6, 2010 12:12:12 GMT
But what on earth would the communities become? An independent Wallonia and an independent Flanders? Or would they join France and the Netherlands, respectively. I don't think they think of themselves as Frenchpersons or Dutchpersons?
There is also a small German-speaking minority.
(Of course I say that coming from a similar, but geographically much larger, place).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2010 13:22:48 GMT
There is a minority movement in Wallonia to become part of France, which is the choice of economic reason rather than deep affinity. But since Wallonia would not want to leave Brussels behind (80% French speaking) and it is in an enclave in Flanders, there appears to be no logical way to do such a thing.
Not to mention the fact that very few people in Brussels would want to see their city become a French provincial city -- they don't have the same agenda as the Walloons.
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Post by bixaorellana on Dec 6, 2010 16:14:11 GMT
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Post by fumobici on Dec 6, 2010 17:34:27 GMT
There is a minority movement in Wallonia to become part of France, which is the choice of economic reason rather than deep affinity. But since Wallonia would not want to leave Brussels behind (80% French speaking) and it is in an enclave in Flanders, there appears to be no logical way to do such a thing. Not to mention the fact that very few people in Brussels would want to see their city become a French provincial city -- they don't have the same agenda as the Walloons. Well there is always the option of non contiguous territories a la Baarle-Nassau/Baarle-Hertog on the Dutch-Belgian border as negotiated in the Treaty of Maastricht: ontology.buffalo.edu/smith/baarle.htm
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2010 21:45:16 GMT
As long as the Flemish prevent a new linguistic census, the situation will remain frozen.
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Post by hwinpp on Dec 7, 2010 2:49:46 GMT
The main reason Flanders doesn't want to join the Netherlands (and I think the reason why it was seperated from NL) is that Flanders is Catholic while most of NL isn't.
I don't know how Wallonia got separated from France.
The extremely small German parts (just a couple of villages and two medium towns, utterly neglectable) were lost after the WWI.
Ok, I'll check Wikileaks now... sorry, Wikipedia... ;D
Just read up on Belgium.
Basically the area was given to the Netherlands after Napoleon was beaten. In 1830 the (Flemish and Catholic) south rebelled and seceded from the Netherlands to form the Kingdom of Belgium with Wallonia. No idea about how Wallonia came into the picture...
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Post by gertie on Feb 17, 2011 13:09:39 GMT
Outside of the fact Agatha Christie's Hercule Poirot was a Belgian, not a Frenchman as many supposed, I know practically nothing of Belgium. Didn't a bunch of people go there to escape the Germans during one of the world wars, only to end up trapped there when the Germans took that country over as well? I sort of think that was WWII, but I am pretty vague on details. I just think I have read about it in some of the stories about the Holocaust in Europe.
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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 23, 2011 14:17:56 GMT
Dutch-speaking Leon Zoetebier (right) and French-speaking Franz Coquidor bicycle in opposite directions during a symbolic protest in Brussels. (AFP/File/Georges Gobet)From World news services Tuesday, February 22, 2011 BRUSSELS — Unable — or unwilling — to work together, bickering politicians have left unassuming Belgium without a fully functioning government for eight months, the longest for any nation in Europe since World War II.
Through most of that time, few Belgians, let alone the outside world, even seemed to notice. Trains continue to run, waffles are still being grilled on street corners, and people window-shop along centuries-old arcades. Tourists still sample mussels, go for canal rides in Bruges and snap up Tintin souvenirs, blissfully unaware of a political crisis.
The European Union and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, both headquartered here in Brussels, barely muster a shrug at the vagaries of Belgian domestic politics.
But patience inside and outside the country is starting to wear thin, and not just because residents are embarrassed that they could overtake Iraq for the modern world record in how long it takes to form a government. (Iraq: 289 days, in 2010. Belgium: 253 as of Monday and counting, according to a cheeky Belgian website)
With only a caretaker government in place since the previous one collapsed and inconclusive elections were held in June, no new policies are being enacted at a time when the unemployment rate hovers around 8 percent, economic recovery is fragile, and the euro remains in crisis.
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Post by bjd on Feb 23, 2011 15:22:00 GMT
From that picture, it looks as though the people get along -- it's just the politicians who can't agree.
I thought Belgium had already beaten Iraq in number of days without a government. It made the news a week or two ago.
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Post by gertie on Feb 23, 2011 15:29:35 GMT
I've always imagined a period without the government enacting their crazy pork-filled bills with one hand and taking away needed services with the other would be a good thing.
Modified to add Maybe that's just the United States, but I somehow doubt it.
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Post by whatagain on Nov 14, 2018 20:24:49 GMT
Fantastic thread. Funny to read how people don't know anything aboutnthe place you have been born in...
Nevertheless I spent the day in Limburg close to NL. I saw some differences from Wallonia (I hardly ever go to Limburg).
So : It is flat. It is clean (...) Architecture is very different : Flemish love modern (saw some convex roofs, lots of cubic design, concrete etc) houses are mostly built close to the orad and no hedges, whilst we tend to build away from the road and hide as much as we can from the road...
People speak a different language but since it is terndy to write in English, you can get along... Beauty salon for a hairdresser is not that difficult to understand.
I spent there the day, as usually when we are mixed sepaking both languages and never knowing how we would end the sentence : in French ? or in Flemish ? With just a little bit of interest towards the other part of the country, we are a very united family !
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Post by lagatta on Nov 14, 2018 23:04:31 GMT
And the famous Limburger cheese. No surprise it smells like feet! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limburger I like the fact that the sandwich also adds a slice of onion...
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Post by kerouac2 on Apr 11, 2019 16:20:42 GMT
I came across an interesting survey reported by the RTBF (French language public television) about kissing for greetings in Belgium. 90% of the Walloons kiss their friends while only 55% of the Flemish do. 63% of Walloons kiss their co-workers, compared to 13% of the Flemish. Brussels is a mixed bag -- 44% kiss their colleagues, 40% prefer to shake hands and 21% just say hello without touching (probably working with Brits). Unlike France, just one kiss is the basic standard for 78% of the Flemish, 96% of the Walloons and 88% of the people from Brussels. However, 21% of the Flemish do three kisses, compared to just 3% of the people of Brussels. Three kisses is unheard of in Wallonia. Only 15% of Flemish men kiss members of the same sex, compared to 55% of the men of Brussels and 72% of Walloon men. It makes it easier to understand that Belgium does not have just a language divide but also a major kissing gap keeping them apart.
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Post by bixaorellana on Apr 11, 2019 17:14:13 GMT
just one kiss is the basic standard for 78% of the Flemish, 96% of the Walloons and 88% of the people from Brussels. This is a very, very good thing!
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Post by kerouac2 on Apr 11, 2019 19:02:54 GMT
I am a supporter of more than one kiss because a single peck on the cheek can seem aggressive or indifferent. In such a case, why do it at all? It is the second kiss that gives you information about how the person feels about you or allows you show how you feel about them -- and yes, that even goes for colleagues.
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Post by amboseli on Apr 11, 2019 20:16:57 GMT
One kiss, please. I wouldn't mind no kiss at all. And I never kiss people that aren't my friends, like co-workers, for example. Yes, I'm Flemish.
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Post by mickthecactus on Apr 11, 2019 20:20:11 GMT
One kiss, please. I wouldn't mind no kiss at all. And I never kiss people that aren't my friends, like co-workers, for example. Yes, I'm Flemish. Bugger. And I was all puckered up ready. Sigh....
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Post by bixaorellana on Apr 11, 2019 20:22:12 GMT
It is the second kiss that gives you information about how the person feels about you or allows you show how you feel about them So what does my flustered flinching at the always unexpected & superfluous second kiss say to you? Amboseli, based on my brief contact with the Flemish, I'd say they tend to be warm people -- and not a single one of them kissed me.
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Post by whatagain on Apr 11, 2019 20:33:19 GMT
I kiss once. I don't kiss male coworkers. I used not to kiss any male except family. Now we kiss between male friends. We kiss 3 times at special occasions. Like Xmas or funerals.
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Post by amboseli on Apr 11, 2019 21:25:33 GMT
And you're not Flemish. Tsss ...
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Post by amboseli on Apr 11, 2019 21:30:49 GMT
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Post by mich64 on Apr 11, 2019 23:48:15 GMT
When I greet my own family, we hug, lots of pats on the back while hugging as well! When I greet my in-law's, always two kisses, for hello and good-bye. With friends, we always hug hello and good-bye. All of this also happens no matter where we meet even if is in the grocery store.
When in France visiting family, always three kisses, male family members as well.
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Post by kerouac2 on Apr 12, 2019 3:51:36 GMT
I myself feel completely violated by hugs. I don't want people rubbing up against me until there are plans to take things to the next step.
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Post by bixaorellana on Apr 12, 2019 4:12:04 GMT
Cigar store Indian.
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Post by bjd on Apr 12, 2019 6:00:36 GMT
The North American hugging started after I left Canada. I do find it strange. The first time it happened to me, when my sister's daughter-in-law patted my back, I felt like a baby about to be burped.
Two kisses on the cheek in the Toulouse area. Any more seems to be overdoing it. I rarely kiss people I see very often, just one friend who kisses everyone. Otherwise, more on meeting friends I see more rarely, or on a special occasion.
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Post by kerouac2 on Apr 12, 2019 10:21:56 GMT
In France, you almost need a training course to know how many times to kiss when you travel to other regions : combiendebises.free.fr/
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Post by mickthecactus on Apr 12, 2019 11:35:02 GMT
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Post by fumobici on Apr 12, 2019 14:32:16 GMT
In Tuscany, it seems to be either two kisses or none. This is complicated by ex-pats from all over and I'm never sure if the lips should actually touch the cheeks or if they should be close air kisses, I've gotten both. It's kind of a relief to come home to the US where it isn't an issue.
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