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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2012 18:20:51 GMT
Ypres is a lovely city in Flanders, but it has a grim past. For one thing, the Commonwealth troops who had the misfortune of discovering it starting in 1914 had not been properly schooled in the French language, and it became very famously known as "Wipers," which is a name that I am sure is still often used to this day. (In real life, the closest anglophone pronunciation of the city name without trying to copy the authentic pronunciation would very simply be "Eep.") On the way to Ypres, I passed this tempting menu on the autoroute, but it was only breakfast time when I stopped. Also, just as I entered the city, there was a small British military cemetery, and I felt that it was important to stop. I had already passed several along the way and I saw many more as the day progressed. Most of them only have a couple of hundred tombs, but they are really all over the place in this part of Belgium and neighbouring France. I don't know about the gaps, but I imagine that they are because of repatriated soldiers who are now lying at rest in England or other Commonwealth countries. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2012 18:26:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2012 18:38:48 GMT
The Cloth Hall is very impressive. It is now the Flanders Field Museum, and I would have visited it instantly if it were not for the fact that it is closed in 2012 for complete renovation. But this gives me a reason to return next year. |
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Post by bjd on Feb 22, 2012 18:58:15 GMT
Seeing the ornate architecture, the size of the church and the large square, I realize how important Ypres must have been once upon a time. I really like that Flemish architecture, with its similarities to the Hanseatic cities along the Baltic coast.
When I was in high school, we had a very old history teacher who told us that the Canadian troops in WW1 indeed called it Wipers.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2012 18:58:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2012 19:11:27 GMT
And all of it has been rebuilt, which is an incredible tribute to the inhabitants of Ypres and the whole country, for taking such care in the recreation of how the city looked before the Great War. In the second battle of Ypres (22 April to 25 May 1915), poison gas was used for the first time -- chlorine gas, which killed Canadian, British, French, Algerian and Senegalese troops. In autumn of 1917, the Germans used mustard gas for the first time, and it was given the name yperite. While the city of Ypres was completely destroyed by the artillery of both sides, 300,000 Allied troops died in the area, of which 250,000 came from the Commonwealth, of which a great many were Canadian. There are 170 military cemeteries surrounding Ypres. I just hope that some day all of this will be forgotten. |
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Post by onlymark on Feb 22, 2012 19:52:30 GMT
However - "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" and "Only the dead have seen the end of war."
George Santayana
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2012 19:57:43 GMT
Yes, the great men always contradict each other. I think that reminding people why they hated each other does nothing to promote peace. The ignorant youth of Europe who did not pay attention in history class have become much better Europeans than their elders.
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Post by fumobici on Feb 22, 2012 21:13:25 GMT
Amazing report K2. Remarkable how beautifully centuries of historic architecture can be rebuilt in a span of decades. Really speaks well of the people that inhabit the area.
I'm with K2 on history, as often as forgetting history condemns us to repeat it I think just as often remembering it does the same. How many pointless and destructive feuds and enmities are kept alive by their being carried on through memory?
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Post by mich64 on Feb 23, 2012 0:57:22 GMT
Kerouac, the title of your thread is heartfelt. So many perished until they were liberated from the war. Your photos of how badly the town was destroyed are shocking to look at. How beautiful though to see it rebuilt.
You are so fortunate to be able to take these excursions. Driving a couple of hours each direction from here, all you see is trees...
The second last photo, is that of the town gate entrance? I have seen photos that look like they would have been taken there where daily salutes are held for all of the allied forces who liberated the city.
Cheers,
Mich
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2012 5:51:12 GMT
No, that is just a shortcut from the back of the Cloth Hall to the Grote Markt.
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Post by hwinpp on Feb 23, 2012 12:54:46 GMT
Seeing the ornate architecture, the size of the church and the large square, I realize how important Ypres must have been once upon a time. I really like that Flemish architecture, with its similarities to the Hanseatic cities along the Baltic coast. ... Exactly what I thought. Might Ypres have been in the Hanseatic League? I think there were a couple in what's now Belgium. Just checked Wikipedia, it went as gar west as Deventer and Groningen. |
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Post by amboseli on Feb 23, 2012 13:29:42 GMT
Kerouac2, you should come back after June of this year when the In Flanders Field Museum has reopened. It is an interactive museum, very, very interesting!
We have toured Ieper (it's a Flemish city) and the Salient a few years ago with American friends. In fact it is thanks to them that I got to learn something about the Great War. At school we have learned about WW II but not so much about WW I. A shame!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2012 14:24:40 GMT
Ah, amboseli, next you'll be telling us that Bruges is spelled Brugge or that Rijsel is spelled Lille!  |
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Post by amboseli on Feb 23, 2012 15:04:59 GMT
Right you are, Kerouac!
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Post by lagatta on Feb 23, 2012 16:09:35 GMT
I knew the Flemish name Ieper and that it was a Flemish town, but for some reason the French spelling is customarily used in English, as is the French spelling of Bruges. I've never been to Ieper, and didn't know that so much of the historic centre had been so painstakingly reconstructed. There is a wikitravel notice on Ypres/Ieper: wikitravel.org/en/Ypres |
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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 23, 2012 17:26:54 GMT
Wonderful thread, Kerouac, moving, sobering, and very beautiful. Too many good pictures to list them all, but the cemetery with the sun flare and especially the church spire behind the gilded bare branches were exceptional.
Even though we know about the devastation of World War One, seeing photos of it is always shocking.
I don't agree about turning our backs on history, though. Your point about reminding people of old hatreds is well taken, but Santayana's hope that we'd learn from past stupidity is more to the point.
Even if kids don't attend to their history lessons, they can't escape knowing about it. My generation grew up with parents to whom WWII was a very immediate memory, plus many of us had WWI veteran grandfathers still living. And my generation's children were certainly aware of the Vietnam war because of their parents. Surely one day people will realize that trying to flatten each other like cave men with clubs is pointless. Maybe if a way is found to teach history without automatic justifications embedded in it, we'd be that much closer to a truly civilized world.
Sorry -- didn't mean to get going!
The Cloth Hall is astoundingly huge. I know a tiny bit about the importance of the Flanders wool trade going back to medieval times, but that picture makes me want to find out more.
The church is so beautifully proportioned that not having stained glass seems to enhance it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2012 17:51:23 GMT
I knew the Flemish name Ieper and that it was a Flemish town, but for some reason the French spelling is customarily used in English, as is the French spelling of Bruges. Well, referring to the information panel in the church, the city is indeed called Ypres in English. While I understand the courtesy of using the local name of cities in most cases, the more important cities of the world have been given "translated" names in most languages, which is why we call a city Rome instead of Roma or Copenhagen instead of København. I think it is an honour for a city name to have been translated, but I am of course contradictory as well, as I much prefer to see people write Reims, Lyon or Marseille rather than Rheims, Lyons or Marseilles -- but I have also noted that certain cities have indeed reclaimed their "proper" spelling when it is quite close to the translated version. Certain names like Venice instead of Venezia or Croatia instead of Hrvatska are probably here to stay for quite some time. End of digression. Conclusion: with a good advertising campaign, Ypres can become Ieper some day, at least in English. Don't count on the French to change their mind before the Walloons do! |
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Post by mossie on Feb 25, 2012 19:34:10 GMT
You missed the Menin Gate, or was that on purpose so as not to draw attention to The Great War. The interior of the gate lists many thousand men who have no known grave.
Every evening the local fire brigade send buglers to blow "The Last Post" at a very moving ceremony to honour the sacrifice.
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Post by lagatta on Feb 25, 2012 23:01:46 GMT
That is lovely that the fire brigade still remembrs that generation of young men, lost to military folly, almost 100 years ago. The death toll was staggering. Don't know Ypres/Ieper battles' toll offhand, but half a million (mostly French and Germans) at Verdun. Bixa, when you go to villages in many European countries, the number of names on the Roll of Honour of those lost seems unthinkable for such tiny places. That had huge implications in many ways, beyond the immense suffering. The rise in fascism due in large part to the war terms (and the economic crisis later on) but also so many unattached young women who had to live somehow with little hope of finding a husband.
Dada (absurdist art) proceeded from that great butchery, and I think a lot of Duck Soup did as well.
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Post by arizona on Jan 17, 2013 14:17:09 GMT
Some more data about the Great War:
Musée de la Grande Guerre in Meaux (pretty new)
Vladslo: German cemetry with sculpture K. Kollwitz
Movie by Steven Spielberg - War Horse
Thiepval (Fr.); huge British monument with 70,000 names carved of missing soldiers
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 4:18:53 GMT
I've been wanting to return to this region, but I still remember how cold it was that day in spite of the sun. I won't have time to go this year, but mabe next spring...
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Post by mickthecactus on Sept 18, 2015 7:33:43 GMT
Kerouac, this is the first time I have seen this. Breathtaking and very moving. The sheer statistics are horrendous.
I loathed history at school and it totally passed me by. Absolutely love it now and still trying to make up for lost time.
Pleased to say eldest grandson loves it and doing it at A level and would like to study it at Uni eventually (if cricket doesn't get in the way). He went to the Somme and Ypres battlefields with school last year. Very moved.
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Post by patricklondon on Sept 18, 2015 13:39:57 GMT
I knew the Flemish name Ieper and that it was a Flemish town, but for some reason the French spelling is customarily used in English, as is the French spelling of Bruges. Probably because at the times the names became widely known in English-speaking countries, it was the French-speaking upper and middle classes who dominated Belgian life and politics - and also French was more commonly understood abroad than Flemish. My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam" |
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