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Post by auntieannie on Apr 22, 2012 21:31:32 GMT
The ballots used to be left in the voting "booths" in Switzerland. With so many people voting either by post or even online these days, I don't know how it works anymore.
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Post by bjd on Apr 23, 2012 10:00:12 GMT
I was just listening to the radio -- of course, they talk of nothing else but the election results. Anyway, there was a little report from some village in southwestern France. At the ballot count, there was shock that the National Front got 20%, as they did nationally more or less. One person said, "This is terrible, these people didn't vote correctly".
Excuse me? Are we in Soviet Russia or a dictatorship of some kind where there is a correct and incorrect way to vote? I thought that was the whole point of democracy? The right to vote for whatever candidate you want.
Everybody had been so convinced by the various polls saying that Hollande would be miles ahead, that the loony left would beat the National Front and it didn't turn out that way. So maybe we should just do away with polls?
I would never vote for the National Front, but do get really annoyed that some people assume there is a "correct" way to vote.
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Post by alanseago on Apr 23, 2012 13:35:55 GMT
It has been in my experience that 'correct' can have various meanings according to context, region or age.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2012 14:12:22 GMT
In any case, there are people who say this sort of thing everywhere on the globe about every imaginable subject. I have been told that I bought the wrong things at the market before.
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Post by Breeze on Apr 23, 2012 21:02:26 GMT
I just had a chance to check on Donzy, the Guardian's "bellwether" village. Nicholas Sarkozy got 27.2% of Donzy's vote compared to 27% nationwide, Hollande 25.5 in Donzy compared to 28% nationwide, and Marine Le Pen 19.9 with 18% nationwide. Donzy stuck pretty close to the national average.
Now, where will Donzy go in the second round? And will the flock follow?
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Post by auntieannie on Apr 24, 2012 9:07:42 GMT
Is it only me that finds these results a bit frightening? Not surprising, but soulless?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2012 10:59:03 GMT
Sarkozy has been applying the programme of the Front National for the last 5 years. It is only normal that certain people have decided that they prefer the authentic article to the copy.
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Post by thill25 on Apr 25, 2012 14:25:21 GMT
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Post by bjd on Apr 25, 2012 14:52:28 GMT
That report was quite objective and informative for people in America, although it made it sound as though there was little campaigning going on except for just a few months before the election.
However, to me and many other people I talked to, it felt as though it had dragged on for ages -- first with the Socialist primaries, then with every mention of DSK ("who would have been the Socialst candidate"). So thank God it does only officially last 4 months. I don't know how you Americans can stand those endless campaigns and non-stop ads.
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Post by lagatta on Apr 25, 2012 17:02:07 GMT
Yes, the French elections were a big story here, and the poll was held at a Collège that uses the French system (exams etc) - obviously it also has to meet Québec criteria. Some friends who went to vote said there was a good turnout.
I do find one out of five people voting FN rather upsetting.
The funniest Poutou clip was a pastiche of "The Artist". It was refreshing to see the campaign not being "over-earnest" (comme les gauchistes font trop souvent) or taking itself too seriously - there is a large protest vote aspect to such campaigns, after all.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2012 17:32:00 GMT
That was indeed a better than usual report from foreign media, until the last bit where they talked about equal time. They claimed that the campaign disappeared at the end, and nothing could be farther from the truth. The number of 10 to 14 candidates is ideal for all of the main television and radio stations because the official campaign lasts 2 weeks -- 14 days. Every political progamme and every news show invites one of the candidates each day, for an equal amount of time. Often there is a countdown clock to shut them up when they have used up their time.
Even though obviously we want to see the major candidates -- those who have a chance in the election -- more than the others, I think that it is admirably fair to give them all equal time, and this appears in the election results, since 5 of the 10 received a significant number of votes. Now is the time for alliances and compromises, and this makes or breaks the final two weeks of the campaign.
Politics has always been a profession of compromise, deception, duplicity, bluff, alliances, etc., and that's why so many people think that politics are dirty rather than clean. I wouldn't use either of those words, but it is inevitable that the various forces negotiate and it is extremely rare that no one budges.
The most interesting situation at the moment is the position of the Front National, which basically holds the two finalists as hostages. The 3rd place candidate, Marine Le Pen will not endorse either of the candidates, but she will make it clear that she has no faith in Sarkozy, even though at least 60-70% of her followers will vote for him.
She will then sabotage Sarkozy's party in the legislative elections, because every time the Front National gets 12.5% of the registered voters (not the same thing as 12.5% of the vote), it will maintain its candidate, which generally ensures the defeat of Sarkozy's party, even when the left is not very strong in the district. They have done this in the past.
Next step: the Front National has registered two different names for a new political party: Rassemblement Bleu Marine (a play on the name of Marine Le Pen -- "bleu marine" means "navy blue") and Alliance pour un Rassemblement National which I find much more likely because the name is less personal. If they succeed in destroying Sarkozy's party (the UMP) in the legislative elections, they will create the new right wing party which will welcome quite a few of the refugees, and then they will really be a force to be reckoned with.
And then we will really be in trouble in 2017.
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Post by lola on Apr 25, 2012 17:57:30 GMT
It's been good to follow this here, even though I mostly understand on the level of hastily removed Rolex. Thank you all.
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Post by lagatta on Apr 25, 2012 20:18:47 GMT
Montréal used to vote for the moderate right, but in the last few elections it has voted for the Socialist Party. I think the nature of French migration here has changed considerably.
A lot of people used to laugh at the Montréal representative of the National Front, which rattled on against immigrants, reminding him that he was such a creature...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2012 19:01:54 GMT
The first of the two weeks of the presidential finals has passed, and many ugly tactics are emerging. In this first week, we have heard Hitler, Pétain and Stalin mentioned more than once. Today, more evidence was presented that Libyan ex-leader Gaddafi helped to finance Sarkozy's previous campaign (which would explain the incredible state visit that occurred shortly after the election). I doubt that definitive proof will ever emerge, however. The next (and almost certainly final) major event will be the debate on May 2nd. The last 4 polls published show Hollande beating Sarkozy with either 54 or 55% of the vote, so a certain number of fence-straddlers are beginning to fall off the fence, all on the same side.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2012 19:21:50 GMT
Okay, here is my last little bit of information about the election until the results come out Sunday night, courtesy of MSNBC/Reuters. Meet Monsieur Caramel Pudding, likely French presidentBy Becky Bratu, msnbc.comUnderstated, bespectacled and often clad in dull gray suits, he is nicknamed "Flanby" -- after a popular brand of caramel pudding. Meet Francois Hollande, the likely next president of France. Largely unknown outside his own country, he is ahead in opinion polls by five to 10 points against the incumbent Nicolas Sarkozy and is poised to become France’s first Socialist president since Francois Mitterrand, whom he served as an economic adviser. The 57-year-old owes his candidacy to the downfall of the former International Monetary Fund chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn, who had been the runaway favorite for socialists until sex scandals ended his professional and political career. However, in a feisty TV debate Wednesday with Sarkozy, Hollande showed voters he is far from characterless. During the debate, which lasted nearly three hours, Hollande claimed Sarkozy, 57, was using the global economic crisis as an excuse for not delivering on his promises. "It's never your fault,” Hollande said. “You always have a scapegoat. 'It's not me -- it's the crisis that hit me.'" Left-wing mom, right-wing dadBorn into a middle-class Catholic family in the city of Rouen, Normandy, Hollande’s views were shaped mostly by his social worker mother; he often disagreed with his father’s far-right views. The young Hollande took an academic path well-trod by many French politicians, attending the Institute of Political Studies (Sciences-Po) and later the École Nationale d'Administration (ENA), both in France’s version of the Ivy League, which produced seven of the past 12 prime ministers, according to The Economist. He graduated from ENA in 1980, along with Segolene Royal, the woman who would become his partner of more than 20 years, mother of his four children and Socialist presidential candidate in 2007. That year, the two called it quits and Royal went on to lose to Sarkozy in the run-off. Sarkozy fails to floor Hollande in France election television debateHollande and Royal never married, and for the past few years his partner has been French political journalist Valerie Trierweiler. She has said she expects to remain a journalist and a working mother if she becomes France’s first lady. His love life may have been complicated, but Hollande's commitment to politics has been constant, and he proudly puts it on display in a campaign video posted on his website that touts his 30 years in politics. Set to a piano soundtrack, the roughly three-minute clip looks at “the victories, the defeats and the historic moments.” “Nothing was given to me, nothing was entrusted to me, nothing was assigned to me,” Hollande is heard saying. “Everything I have, I took by right.” 'A rather dangerous man'He now wants to take the presidency, and some worry about what that may mean for the future of France and Europe in general. “Mr. Hollande evinces a deep, anti-business attitude,” writes Britain’s pro-business The Economist, adding that his hostility to change could undermine the Eurozone’s determination to pursue painful reforms that could help save the euro. “That makes him a rather dangerous man.” Despite The Economist’s anxieties, the election is more of a referendum on how Sarkozy and his government have handled the economic crisis. With unemployment at a 12-year high and France stripped of its AAA status by one credit rating agency, the Bank of France offered no solace for Sarkozy. Figures for growth were revised downward -- news that Hollande could benefit from, as he promises to forge a new economic direction for Europe with a drive to spend and thus promote growth. This plan is in stark contrast to Sarkozy’s policy of financial discipline and austerity, a solution to the financial crisis also championed by Germany’s Angela Merkel. Despite his promises of less austerity, Hollande has pledged to balance the budget in 2017, Bloomberg reported, while Sarkozy promised to reach the target a year earlier. "We will keep to the fixed plan of reducing our public deficit to 3 percent [of GDP] in 2013," Hollande said in an interview with La Tribune. "It's France's word." One of the ways he plans to achieve this is through higher taxes, including a 75 percent rate on income over 1 million euros ($1.3 million). Some analysts, however, worry that weak growth will derail his goal and think Hollande should turn to sensible cuts in spending instead. "People voting for Sarkozy are thinking about somebody who can lead in Europe and handle the crisis,” Dominique Reynie, professor at the Sciences Po, told Reuters. “Those who vote for Hollande are thinking about their own purchasing power and social well-being." Serge Raffy, chief-editor of the French newspaper Nouvel Observateur and author of “Francois Hollande: A secret itinerary,” noted there was little enthusiasm and passion in “desperately rational” Hollande’s candidacy. “At least it didn’t cause illusions from the outset,” Raffy writes. “Francois Hollande will not disappoint if he wins. He can only surprise us.” Interestingly enough, I also read a BBC News article about the debate today, which completely fawned over Sarkozy's performance and said that Hollande was totally incapable of responding properly.
So just as with the French voters, the opinions are set by one's previously formulated opinions. I imagine that practically nobody listened to the debate with an open mind unless they had just arrived from Mars.
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Post by mich64 on May 4, 2012 20:55:25 GMT
Very informative. I am interested in finding out the results on Sunday.
There was a Provincial election in Canada recently where the polls were highly in favor of a new Party being elected. They did not win to become the Provincial Party but many of their members won their seats.
I think when it came to the day to vote, people were unsure of change and went with what they knew. There were some statements made by some of these new Candidates that may have changed voters opinion of the Party near the end.
It was interesting watching a new Party emerge.
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Post by bjd on May 5, 2012 6:00:28 GMT
I watched most of the debate on Wednesday night, wondering whether political "debates" in other countries have candidates yelling at each other and calling each other liars. ;D I didn't find there was a winner or loser.
One thing I find disconcerting is that Hollande, presenting himself as "change is now" is an absolute throwback to the usual French political class, coming out of ENA, climbing through the Socialist Party over the years. The real change was Sarko 5 years ago, but then, of course, quickly enough people didn't find him "presidential" and are now going on about what a great guy Chirac was. Despite the street demonstrations, I think France is quite a conservative country.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2012 15:20:28 GMT
If this website were based in France, I would be breaking the law to write that it appears the François Hollande is going to win with 53% of the vote. The polling stations in the big cities won't close for another 2 3/4 hours, and it is illegal to publicize any results before 8pm local time.
In any case, place de la Bastille is apparently already full and has been closed to traffic.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2012 19:24:15 GMT
Now that the presidential election is out of the way, the next part of this report will concern the legislative elections, which will take place next month.
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Post by auntieannie on May 7, 2012 17:34:20 GMT
I am rather glad of the results of the French presidential elections.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on May 7, 2012 19:52:23 GMT
Vive la France
A very interesting thread, we have certainly watched the election with interest in the UK. We get several news channels here and weren't generally swayed by the bias shown by certain newspapers and the BBC. President Hollande is the choice of the French voters and that's great. At least he got 52% of the vote..Mr Cameron would give his eye teeth for that here... ;D
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 20:07:37 GMT
Tomorrow the president elect has been invited by President Sarkozy to attend the May 8th WW2 commemorations (it is a bank holiday) at his side. The invitation has been accepted, which is good.
President Hollande will take office next week on May 15th and the new government team will be announced the same day. This will be extremely important for the upcoming legislative elections, because it will inform people as to what sort of government Hollande wants to have and it will help them decide if they want to vote for the Socialist/Leftist Front/Green candidates that will be supported by the new president.
He has said that male/female parity will be respected in the government. This is an easy promise to make for a first government that lasts only a month. Other presidents have done the same. After the elections, when the "revised" government is announced, a lot of the women suddenly disappear for some reason. Maybe not this time, but I have little faith in any politician.
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Post by lola on May 7, 2012 20:48:23 GMT
Good to have qualified ministers of whichever sex.
( Berlusconi appointed lots of women, possibly based on how photogenic they are.)
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2012 19:05:00 GMT
I'm impatient for the legislative elections in June, because it is only then that we will know if the president will be able to carry out his promised policies. In the meantime, I thought I would cover a few other idiosyncrasies of the French political system. One of the strangest things is that the government ministries are reinvented by each new government, which leads to a lot of extra expense in letterhead paper, among other things. For example, there can be a "Minister of Finance and Industry" in one government and the next one might have a "Minister of Industry and Employment" in the next one while the Minister of Finance becomes "Minister of Finance and Budget." Until the announcements are made, we have no idea who is going to be doing what. There was an article on one of the websites today comparing the French system to the rigid American system where any new Minister Secretary must be created by legislation, the last creation being "Homeland Security." I'm not sure which is better, because it is kind of strange to reconfigure the government ministries so often, but at the same time it allows the government departments to adapt to rapidly changing situations, as evidenced by the "Ministry of War" that many governments had 60 or so years ago. Anyway, since the Socialists had been out of power for so long, President Hollande wanted to make his mark with the new nominations. Strangely enough, the first challenge was the name of the Prime Minister, Jean-Marc Ayrault, because the transliteration of the name "Ayrault" into a lot of Arabic dialects is "Penis," which embarrassed quite a bit of the Arabic language press. So one of the very first duties of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs was to give a "proper" way to write the name. The real pronunciation "Ayro" is what was causing the problem, so it was decided that the name should be written as though the "LT" were not silent. This solves the problem. 34 ministers and junior ministers were named yesterday, and it gave us some nice fresh faces, although they will be asked to resign if they lose in the legislative elections (they would not serve in the legislature, of course -- it is their alternate who takes the post if they win). 17 men and 17 women as promised -- a first time ever event. Of course, if Hollande does not win the majority in the legislative elections, the entire government resigns and the leader of the winning party creates the new government. I don't think that any of the new letterhead paper is printed until after the elections. So, here are some of the new people. Yamina Benguigui is a film director and a member of the Paris city council. She has made a number of documentaries about immigration and women's rights. She does not belong to any political party at the moment. She is junior minister for the overseas French and the development of the French language. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs controls her department. Manuel Valls is a Spanish immigrant, whose parents brought him to France as a child to escape persecution by Franco. He has been named Minister of the Interior, because he is extemely involved in law-and-order. He is the socialist who is the most appreciated by the right wing political parties. Christiane Taubira is the new Minister of Justice. She is appreciated as a fabulous orator and she is famous for having a law voted in 2001 making the slave trade a crime against humanity in France. Her background, however, is not in law but in economics, sociology and Afro-American studies. She is from French Guiana. Fleur Pellerin is a junior minister for one of the more interesting new creations: Minister for small enterprise, innovation and the digital economy. This is a prime example of the government trying to adapt to the modern world, because if you do not create a specific department to look over the internet, you have 3 or 4 different ministries fighting over it. She was born in Seoul and adopted by a French family. Aurélie Filippetti is an extremely important minister for France: Minister of Culture and Communication. It does not have one of the biggest budgets, but it has a huge influence on the country. She is the daughter of Italian immigrants who came to work in the mines of Lorraine. Cécile Duflot is the head of the Green party and is a real firebrand. However, instead of being Minister of Ecology, she has been named Minister of Territorial Equality and Housing. She is not exactly a classic politician. She lives with the brother of a famour French rock star and has four children, one of whom is named Térébenthine (Turpentine). I think we may be in for some interesting times.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2012 9:53:23 GMT
Reading up on all this stuff in the newspaper, I saw that the transportation industry (my field) has switched from the "Ministry of Ecology, Sustainable Development, Transportation and Housing" to the "Ministry of Transportation and Maritime Economy."
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Post by auntieannie on May 18, 2012 11:20:15 GMT
slightly more focused, then!
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Post by lola on May 18, 2012 17:51:55 GMT
I have to ask: is Térébenthine a girl? or is it bourgeois of me to wonder?
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2012 17:57:11 GMT
Térébenthine is a girl. I looked it up. The name was chosen to honour the Landes region from which her companion Xaver Cantat hails -- it is a region of non stop pine trees.
Meanwhile, Cécile Duflot was criticized by the right wing parties yesterday for coming to the first cabinet meeting wearing (chic) jeans. "When you are a member of the cabinet, you are representing the nation. You are not spending a weekend with your friends!"
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Post by lola on May 18, 2012 20:49:04 GMT
They would prefer perhaps a chic polyester pantsuit?
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2012 21:02:30 GMT
Some people are so stupid. And of course the losing side of the election is nitpicking on every single detail they can imagine. (I don't fault them for that, because it would have been the same if the other side had won.)
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