|
Post by chexbres on Jan 21, 2017 8:19:35 GMT
Melania should have glanced in a mirror - she probably wasn't wearing any underwear, but something was all bunched up on her rear end. I thought it was weird that the entire "first family" came out to show off their dance moves. Probably an attempt to sell dresses.
|
|
|
Post by whatagain on Jan 21, 2017 11:40:54 GMT
' You elected a billionaire who is appointing other billionaires to fix the system who made them billionaires ? You are a kind of a special stupid aren't you ? '
I found this on FB. It translates what I say since the elections in a better way...
|
|
|
Post by lagatta on Jan 21, 2017 13:23:15 GMT
Yes, they look very much alike, not just the hair. Carla looks like Cécilia's younger sister.
But why were they attracted to Sarko? Power?
|
|
|
Post by Kimby on Jan 21, 2017 14:44:31 GMT
|
|
|
Post by lagatta on Jan 21, 2017 14:54:31 GMT
That is because she sells low-endish copies of such dresses.
|
|
|
Post by tod2 on Jan 22, 2017 9:25:30 GMT
My husband wants to know if Trump keeps saying "America First", why is he married to a foreigner? Aren't the babes hot enough in USA..
|
|
|
Post by bjd on Jan 22, 2017 9:41:46 GMT
My husband wants to know if Trump keeps saying "America First", why is he married to a foreigner? Aren't the babes hot enough in USA.. Two foreigners -- his first wife was Czech.
|
|
|
Post by questa on Jan 22, 2017 12:33:25 GMT
Thinking back on the electoral process that allowed this travesty of democracy to occur, I have some questions I hope someone can enlighten me. As you possibly know Oz has compulsory voting. Everything is done to make it easy for people to cast their ballots e.g. postal votes for those working, sick, house-bound or have religious constraints. Small aircraft ferry ballot boxes around the isolated Aboriginal settlements, mines and off shore platforms. You don't have too actually vote, but you have to have you name crossed off the list and be given the ballot papers. There is a fine for not doing so, enough to make someone go out and 'get it over with.'
Knowing they will vote makes people more aware of the issues and characters. After the tv ads have spruiked their messages, people talk and candidates have to listen to what their issues are. Several political groups have been pushing to abolish compulsory voting (which would favour the Right)with no success.
SO...Would this system work in USA? Would it have prevented the current situation? What arguments for or against compulsory showing up to vote would arise? What are your thoughts on it?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 13:10:59 GMT
I don't think it would work in the USA, questa, simply because Americans feel there is far too much government interference in their day-to-day lives as it is and they resent anything that they have to do that concerns the greater good. A good portion of them want no taxes, no healthcare, no social security, no regulations of any kind. The free, proud, frontier mentality would be outraged by anything resembling mandatory participation in democracy. The howling that would go on if compulsory voting and fines were instituted!
|
|
|
Post by lagatta on Jan 22, 2017 13:11:43 GMT
Then how on earth did you wind up with Tony Abbott?
|
|
|
Post by whatagain on Jan 22, 2017 13:22:25 GMT
Compulsory voting is not imho the best solution either. Or you must invest to educate the people into knowing how to vote. In Belgium we must vote but we don't care about politics. So a lot of votes are just done without any political thinking. Some vote because their fathers vote like that. End of story. My Father in Law, who doesn't know his age and doesn't remember what he ate a tmidday is allowed - and actually obliged to vote.
|
|
|
Post by tod2 on Jan 22, 2017 14:32:06 GMT
I catch your drift Whatagain - sounds like these voters could tip the scales either in the right or wrong direction, depending who one supports....but then sounds like nobody supports much in the way of politics. Will that change if someone got elected and turned Belgium upside down? Or is that not remotely possible.
|
|
|
Post by Kimby on Jan 22, 2017 14:42:17 GMT
Mandatory voting? No, because voter education is not mandatory. The only thing worse than NOT exercising your right to vote would be voting with no real knowledge of the candidates and issues.
Unless something changes to reduce the amount of outright lies and subtle misinformation being passed off as news and truth", FEWER voters would be a good thing. Literacy tests were outlawed, but seriously, uninformed and misinformed voters are wielding a loaded gun when they mark their ballots.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 14:59:37 GMT
I like the idea of compulsory citizenship class, learning about social contracts, voting, citizen responsibilities. Refreshers every year.
|
|
|
Post by Kimby on Jan 22, 2017 15:35:00 GMT
Agreed. We should EARN our right to vote.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 15:45:19 GMT
I never heard of that. is it implemented anywhere with any "success"" for lack of a better word, perhaps effective?
I do like the concept but, that being said, my trust in people is so lacking that I would immediately have my attenae up and be skeptical of the results based on who was monitoring it.
It works in small social stratospheres but, the larger the number, the less probability of it even briefly gone without monitoring properly would seemingly fall into a need for surveillance which I do believe was "experimented" with and not a pretty result in the end.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 15:48:40 GMT
Agreed. We should EARN our right to vote. So, what would be the qualifications and who would deceide? There's enough fraudulence out there already.
|
|
|
Post by Kimby on Jan 22, 2017 16:27:24 GMT
Maybe the admins can rename this thread to "Anerican Elections can be strange." The discussion has moved beyond funny to serious to bizarre...
|
|
|
Post by Kimby on Jan 22, 2017 16:36:17 GMT
Agreed. We should EARN our right to vote. So, what would be the qualifications and who would decide? There's enough fraudulence out there already. I didn't mean my statement literally. But I do feel strongly that an uneducated - and worse, misinformed - electorate leads to bad choices at the ballot box. In Montana, every address that receives a mailed ballot (which is every registered voter who requests one) also receives a Voter Information Pamphlet with descriptions of every ballot issue as well as the exact wording, and position papers pro and con as well as responses to the pro position by the con, and vice versa. If this was made a national practice, AND expanded to include candidate's platforms and records, perhaps it would help people to make educated decisions. But no one would be forced to read their booklet, or tested on their reading comprehension.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 16:47:23 GMT
Maybe if there were a very simple test to take just before being allowed to cast one's ballot, and I mean very simple, for example 3 questions for Americans: 1. What is the name of the current president? 2. How many states are there in the United States? 3. What is the holiday on the 4th of July?
Believe me, not everybody would pass the test. I bet at least 5-10% of people would not get all three right.
|
|
|
Post by Kimby on Jan 22, 2017 16:54:08 GMT
K2 you would have to have oral tests for those who can't read, and tests offered in all languages that are spoken in the US. Though presumably, those who BECAME US citizens instead of being BORN US citizens, will already have studied for and passed a citizenship exam that is MUCH harder than your 3 questions.
I think ALL of us would have trouble with some of the questions on the citizenship test. It's been a long time since my freshman civics class and college political science course...
|
|
|
Post by Kimby on Jan 22, 2017 16:59:33 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Kimby on Jan 22, 2017 17:12:53 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 17:31:32 GMT
My mother took the French version of that test in 2005. I sat next to her and watched, and I would not wish the way one feels when observing such a thing on anyone.
|
|
|
Post by fumobici on Jan 22, 2017 19:49:24 GMT
Then how on earth did you wind up with Tony Abbott? I was thinking the exact same thing. He was hardly better than Trump and compulsory voting didn't help keep him out of office.
|
|
|
Post by lagatta on Jan 22, 2017 20:01:26 GMT
He had a burning boreal-austral bromance going on with Stephen Harper. I don't know whether they got more jollies from environmental destruction or perpetuating the denial of Indigenous peoples' rights. Thick as thieves.
|
|
|
Post by questa on Jan 22, 2017 22:34:48 GMT
Late last night I replied to Lagatta but it seems I did not post it Tony Abbott was a prototype testing dummy for Trump. He failed.
|
|
|
Post by questa on Jan 22, 2017 23:00:40 GMT
Kimby...if a citizen is not allowed to vote on any grounds other mental incompetence we are on a slippery slope to the era of injustice and disenfranchisement that caused many deaths.
If only the educated, richer, smarter people can vote, and the socially challenged can't express their needs in strength of numbers 'too big to ignore' then democracy is defeated and the laughter will be heard from Iran to Syria.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 23:32:30 GMT
Based on the responses to my post I can safely say that any test would rule out more than half of the people legally registered to vote here in NOLA. No question about it after having worked at the polls for 5 years post Katrina. Even the people I worked beside were challenged enough which made my work burden greater than I had expected.
|
|
|
Post by gabriele on Jan 23, 2017 4:14:55 GMT
Kimby California has a thorough guide to all the propositions on the ballots. It starts out with an explanation of what it is, and what it is supposed to do or mean, then further back in the handbook is the text of it. If there is already a law and it would change it they show the current law with a line through the pertinent text and the added text in another font or color. I will read just about anything but I don't bother with the text. By the time it gets to an actual ballot I would have read up on it and made up my mind. The listing of candidates goes out separately. The Secretary of State sends out the statewide information, the county (which handles the registration of voters and the polling places) sends out the info on all the people running for office (basic) as well as the proposed laws. A candidate of public office can pay to have their own statement printed in the voter handbook. I think it's a measure of how few people actually read the handbooks that maybe one in ten...or one in twenty...who choose to do so. And it's not expensive.
I've just been doing research on political robocalls. They're against the law in California but it still happens. And now that I know that I will print out the information and take it to the office of a local who already holds a public office (councilman) and running again...and is breaking the law. Damn that really makes me angry. Why should I trust someone like that? (Not that I planned on voting for him anyway.
I think the saddest thing I've observed is that members of the big Los Angeles teachers' union, UTLA, who by law have to have a college degree and pass certain tests do not question anything...'vote here' and they vote that way. There is no such thing as an honest discussion. I don't agree with anything the Alt-right says or does but I can understand why they feel the way they do.
A long time ago someone told me: "People say 'I think' when what they mean is 'I feel'". There's no rational process, it's based on their emotional responses. And yet people continue to say "I think" and really believe it's a purely mental approach when it's the opposite that is true. I use the form myself, I did in the previous paragraph. But I was observing my reaction (sadness) and trying to apply some reason to the situation. Failed of course.
Living in a very rural area I found that a lot of the old timers would only vote on local issue or local offices. They didn't want the responsibility for choosing something they didn't know enough about and didn't want to have to waste their time trying to learn. They didn't trust anyone who put book learning above common sense. I love books and I love learning but I've found common sense has been more useful in more situations. Anyone who's tried to explain why something went wrong on someone's trip (On Thorn Tree) has run into that...mainly the lack of common sense.
And the last statewide guide (Nov 2016)? It was 9"x12" and 3/4" thick. Most people took them from the mailbox and put them directly in the blue bin (recycling). And thought themselves virtuous for the recycling part.
|
|