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Post by Don Cuevas on Aug 18, 2012 7:39:40 GMT
I feel that I can talk about this here.
I've been involved in various Internet fora for years, starting with the Lonely Planet Thorn Tree and going on to Mexconnect.com.
Obviously, different fora have different purposes and personalities. Thorn Tree is huge, and different branches have distinct personalities. Although it's not perfect, (I wouldn't expect that.) I am still a frequent visitor.
Now what I have realized in the last years or so is that for some information, some fora are near worthless. I hate to say this, as it sounds ageist, but the older the general membership of the forum, the less accurate and less useful is the info.
I started to see this on Mexconnect, where a lot of time and text is spent discussing Inmigracíon and Aduana topics. Unfortunately, with a few exceptions, most of the replies are inaccurate, off target, outdated and incomplete. I question how anyone inquiring can sort out a few grains of gold from the flow of dross.
It's one thing to ask for info on goods and services, but in the topic of immigration matters and health, it's best to seek expertise.
Last week, a question arose on a local Michoacán Yahoo Group about how much is the fee to renew an FM 3 visa. There were about 8 responses, one of which was wildly inaccurate while maybe one was close and one other was spot on.
I suggested to the OP that they go to the Inmigracíon office and ask in person, to get the official word. Or try to navigate the INM website for an answer.
Similarly, on the Expat-Mexico Forum, which I joined about 2 months ago, it has been very disappointing to find that there are regular posters who might have something useful to contribute but spend much time in rambling, off topic chit chat. I want to scream when I read these waylaid threads.*
I belatedly learned how to turn of the email notifications that came to my in-box when anyone added their nugget of trivia to an already totally wasted topic. Some members seem to be compelled to post a comment to nearly everything, whether their response is useful or relevant to the OP.
*There is one poster on the Expat Forum Mexico who totally sends me off the edge. Not only is he inclined to be extremely verbose, but rambling and somewhat incoherent. Yesterday he not only posted one of his streams of semi-consciousness blathers, but then wrote two responses to himself, commenting on his OP!
Yesterday, in came a serious request from a woman with citizenship questions. She had decided to hire an attorney to help her make the transition to naturalized Mexican citizen. Fine. But, she had some doubts about being able to leave Mexico for a European trip during her citizenship process.
So she asked the Forum. That set me off. I think it the height of folly to ask a group of inexpert amateurs questions of such a serious nature. I told her to ask at the Mexican Foreign Office (SRE) or perhaps her hired attorney could give better advice.
That's all I have to say about this now. I can only conclude that I am socially maladapted, or too damn independent to put up with the charla babosa (drooling chitchat) on some of those fora. Thank you all for providing an intelligent and often witty exchange here on Any Port in a Storm.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2012 8:55:20 GMT
On all of of the European forums, people constantly ask the most asinine questions like "I've overstayed my Schengen visa exemption. Will I get in trouble?" or "I'm going to Europe in November. Should I buy euros now or will the exchange rate go up? Or should I just pay in dollars?"
I don't even respond to such things now -- I let the pack attack them.
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Post by Don Cuevas on Aug 18, 2012 9:30:28 GMT
The problems, as I see them, is not just dumb questions, but inaccurate answers to questions of serious matters.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2012 9:44:26 GMT
Well, it is often dumb to ask such questions on a forum instead of at a consulate.
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Post by bixaorellana on Aug 18, 2012 20:59:52 GMT
I know that gripe well, DonC, as it happens in 3-D life, too. Ask anyone who's an English-speaker, rather than go to the source to get the straight poop. You could write a book on the stuff that "everyone (i.e., other expats) knows" that is not only inaccurate but often downright stooooopid.
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Post by Don Cuevas on Aug 18, 2012 22:25:16 GMT
There had also been messages on our local Yahoo Group that were basically silly, like "Is the party still on the 16th?). as if we all knew what the poster was referring to. (This is not unusual.) I used to scoff at the simple newbie questions, like, "Where is a fax office in Pátzcuaro?", to which I replied, "Try going down the street in Centro and looking for a sign that says, You should see one within just a few blocks'". Or, OP: "How can I get to Santa Juana Fulana for the <name of famous artesanías here>, I don't have a car?" Me: "Go to the corner of the Plaza Chica and look for where the combis (colectivo vans) are lining up and departing. Look for a sign on the windshield that says "Santa Juana Fulana". Or if you don't see the appropriate combi within 15 minutes or so, ask someone. If this is too difficult, go the the central bus station and inquire. Or if that is inconvenient, take a taxi." (Probably have to take a combi or a taxi to the Central de Autobuses anyway, heh heh heh.) Now I think such questions are harmless, but in contrast, the ones re: migracíon or citzenship, one needs to talk with an authoritative source. Meanwhile, let's peek in and see how the thread on leaving México while one's citizenship is pending is coming along.tinyurl.com/YoQuieroTodo (Judgmental URL mine) Looks like our OP has gotten some solid advice, Hallelujah! But she chooses to ignore it and Mexican law and policy.
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Post by Don Cuevas on Aug 18, 2012 22:28:01 GMT
I really wanted to format the moving FAX in throbbing purple, but couldn't find a [blink] tag [/blink]. ;D
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Post by bixaorellana on Aug 19, 2012 0:33:46 GMT
Thass porque ess called the ethrob tag. Joo shooda axed.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2012 2:08:29 GMT
I get accused of being snarky when I reply to clueless questions with firm discipline.
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Post by htmb on Aug 19, 2012 2:47:39 GMT
I can understand the frustrations like those mentioned above. I've only been a bit of a regular on another forum for the past few months, though I've been a member there since 2009. For those of you who have been regulars for several years I'm wondering how you tolerate much of the idiotic stuff and what keeps you going back to those forums day after day and answering questions?
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Post by fumobici on Aug 19, 2012 3:53:56 GMT
I tried to be helpful on the Tripadvisor forum for a bit addressing questions about Italy but the way people described their approach to tourism left me not wanting to. I just can't relate to it at all, it's mostly just horrifyingly ugly tourism they want to do- whirlwind tours of expensive tourist traps with no interest in the culture whatsoever.
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Post by bixaorellana on Aug 19, 2012 5:33:21 GMT
Well, don't bother coming here unless you want to "chill", since the whole country is just a rim of beaches with maybe a church, ruin, or museum somewhere in the empty middle. On the bright side, on that rim are many all-inclusives.
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Post by Don Cuevas on Aug 19, 2012 8:39:20 GMT
I don't expect everyone else to have the same interests in travel as I do, but, more in the context of expats' questions, they ought to think a bit more before posting, but even more important, the Old Hands should reply in a more accurate way, instead of just writing the first reaction that pops into their brain, then clicking "submit"; or, "This is how it happened to us, 3 years ago."; or, " I read that blah blah..."
Another example: some San Miguel de Allende expats had a meeting with Ed Clancy, the U.S. Consular Agent, who, I'm certain, is a highly competent and helpful person in his field. But wouldn't it have been more appropriate for a jefe of the Instituto Nacional de Migracíon to address the meeting? The subject was changes in Mexican Immigration law and how it applies to us. As it was reported in the minutes of that meeting, and passed around various Yahoo Groups, I immediately found flawed information within those minutes that didn't jibe with current Mexican immigration policy. Could it have been the minutes taker that got it wrong? Doesn't matter, it was incorrect. So, what was the point of such a meeting? Some good info, some flawed info; how can one tell which is valid and useful?
I think many expats engage in wishful thinking and this colors their perceptions. That's one of the reasons they prefer to go to their peers via the Internet or IRL to get the best scenario that suits their wishes. See reference upthread to the expat seeking Mexican citizenship yet leaving for Europe.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2012 20:47:50 GMT
Expats = wishful thinking. Yes, that's it, exactly.
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Post by htmb on Aug 20, 2012 21:10:46 GMT
So, do you ever want to throw up your hands and take a break from answering (sometimes) stupid and often repetitive questions? I'd like to know what motivates those of you who are long-time dedicated forum advisors. I'm sure you are extremely helpful to a lot of very appreciative people, but then there's the other stuff: The questions put out there without a lot of thought or research behind them, the misinformation put out there by some of the "experts," the fearmongering, the snippy territorial comments from some of the regular posters. Why do you continue?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2012 21:30:46 GMT
I am ignoring more and more questions on those other forums. 1) lots of newer contributors are happy to provide the basic information and 2) sometimes the question makes it clear that no reply will be suitable.
Unfortunately, after about 20 ridiculous interventions, I often feel the need to jump in anyway.
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Post by Don Cuevas on Aug 21, 2012 7:33:47 GMT
A new example of a silly, unanswerable question appeared on our local Michoacán Yahoo Group. (Paraphrasing): "We are looking at a nice house to rent in Pátzcuaro. Would like to know what typical utility bills run.". This one wasn't as silly as many others.
Although unanswerable, I attempted to answer it with a few details, but it all gets down to "It depends.". And I doubt that our living conditions are typical for expats here.
Another expat friend, who lives within the centro part of Pátzcuaro in a 3 story house, answered it in much more detail. But still, "It depends."
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 18:23:12 GMT
"How much should we budget for meals in Paris? I heard it is an expensive city."
That sort of question absolutely drives me up the wall.
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Post by rikita on Aug 21, 2012 20:03:08 GMT
well i don't find that last one a completely stupid question. obviously you can't say it exactly, as it depends - but it is one of the things i try to find out too, before planning a vacation somewhere. of course it depends on where, what type of food, what type of restaurant - but you can still give examples and a general idea...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 20:30:39 GMT
The question makes perfect sense if it is accompanied by other information, which is almost never the case:
We are having all of our meals in restaurants. We like to buy things from stands in the street. We like ethnic restaurants. We enjoy shopping in supermarkets for various foods. We only eat organic items and are vegetarians. We don't eat weird food. We prefer hamburgers. etc.
I can help anybody if they will just tell me things like that -- but they rarely do until you force them to.
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Post by htmb on Aug 21, 2012 21:01:05 GMT
What about dealing with other regular posters? There seem to be several different personality-types that emerge on some forums. From the outside looking in it appears there is a lot of animosity between some of the regulars on the other forum I've been following.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 21:36:09 GMT
Oh, indeed there is! And you would not believe the number of PM's that are sent about such matters.
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Post by htmb on Aug 21, 2012 21:49:14 GMT
Oh, indeed there is! And you would not believe the number of PM's that are sent about such matters. Really? So it's often as nasty as it appears? I would not enjoy that at all. What's the motivation for continuing to be involved?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2012 22:25:19 GMT
I dodge most of the bullets, but a number of people have needed to request that PM's be blocked from certain people who are insulting and psychotic. I think that my long online experience has made me pretty immune to anything that can be written. Oddly enough, I get PM's from "supporters" saying things like "Just give the signal and we'll all attack together! I have rounded up x, y and z who are ready and waiting!"
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Post by Don Cuevas on Aug 22, 2012 12:09:04 GMT
I can get along with everyone on here, if they'd just listen to me and do things my way. ;D
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Post by lola on Aug 22, 2012 16:53:10 GMT
Well, don't bother coming here unless you want to "chill", since the whole country is just a rim of beaches with maybe a church, ruin, or museum somewhere in the empty middle. On the bright side, on that rim are many all-inclusives. They speak English, though, right? I have a high tolerance for dumb questions, due to my own tendencies in that direction. I dislike seeing the pack pounce and reduce to whimpering puddle. It's surely a very good thing that fodors doesn't have the PM option. Larger pool of dysfunction. And probably flirting and whatnot.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 17:39:08 GMT
Yes, I agree that Fodor's strong point is not having private messages. Unfortunately, more than once that has led to new threads having titles like "Hey Kerouac!" On forums with PMs, I am often solicited to be the personal travel agent of people whom I have never heard of, or else I get asked things like "Please confirm that XXX is a total nut case."
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Post by htmb on Aug 22, 2012 20:25:08 GMT
"Please confirm that XXX is a total nut case."
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This really made me laugh, though I can also say the question has popped into my head at times. Usually after reading a few other posts from certain individuals I can figure it out for myself. So, you give private tours, k? Do you also recommend the shuttle from CDG in to Paris? ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Don Cuevas on Aug 23, 2012 9:33:25 GMT
A couple of days ago, a question was posted on our local Michoacán forum about the location of the Morelia Aduana office in reference to vehicle permit renewals. It had changed last year and moved out to the Airport. (Much less convenient for us.)
OP wanted to know where it was or maybe just the phone number.
I remembered an earlier, highly detailed post with nearly all current info from February, so I did a search within the forum, found it, posted it with a live URL.
Next thing I knew was another member asking for the info. So I just wrote it out.
Either my previous reply didn't post as I thought, or it did, but the other member didn't know to click the blue hypertext to go to the February post. I guess in the future I should make the URL say CLICK ME!
The archaic Yahoo Groups interface takes a lot of the blame in the welter of confusing messages, quotes, deformed text, blah blah. And I've only just started on that rant.
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Post by rikita on Aug 23, 2012 20:29:10 GMT
The question makes perfect sense if it is accompanied by other information, which is almost never the case: We are having all of our meals in restaurants. We like to buy things from stands in the street. We like ethnic restaurants. We enjoy shopping in supermarkets for various foods. We only eat organic items and are vegetarians. We don't eat weird food. We prefer hamburgers. etc. I can help anybody if they will just tell me things like that -- but they rarely do until you force them to. yeah i suppose that makes the question make more sense... i suppose some people might not be good at even realizing what the options are, if so far they always eat out in touristy restaurants when they travel, though might not think about that there are other options too... or they haven't decided yet what and where to eat, and will decide based on the cost... though of course even then it'd be better to ask "what should we budget if we mainly eat out, and what should we budget if we instead mostly on markets"...
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