A slow goodbye to plastic bags (K2)

[Deleted]

More and more countries are banning lightweight plastic bags -- Haiti since October 2012 and Mauritania and Mali as of January 2013 -- have joined the list of countries including China, Bangladesh and Rwanda, among many others.

Most of the developed countries have partial bans or else plastic bag taxes to discourage their use, but I think we all agree that we still see plenty of plastic bags every day. Toronto was going to ban plastic bags but backed down in November when the plastics industry and merchants' associations threatened to sue to government. So there is definitely still a long way to go. As is often the case, Denmark was the pioneer in banning plastic bags, which it did way back in 1994. Meanwhile, the city of Concord, Massachusetts banned the sale of small plastic water bottles as of January 1st, 2013.

In France, "non biodegradable single-use" plastic bags will be taxed 0.06€ each starting January 1st, 2014. In practice, most supermarkets already stopped giving out free bags several years ago, and they charge between 0.03€ and 0.10€ when you ask for one. There has unfortunately been a rather perverse effect of the disappearance of the free bags. People would use them for rubbish disposal, and now that they are not free, the sale of plastic garbage bags has gone up considerably -- and these use a lot more plastic matter than the flimsy little shop bags.

I try to keep a couple of plastic bags in my pocket at all times, but usually at least once a week I get caught bagless and end up paying another 0.03€ for a bag...

[rikita]

i find the bigger ones useful more often, even as garbage bags, and you can use them many times - the small ones i also use as garbage bags but throw away with the garbage, and also i always have too many of them... the main problem with the small ones is that you need them to buy fruit and vegetables - only very few shops have paper bags instead to use for those - i think taking your own bags to put fruit and vegetables in is frowned upon in most shops here, though i am not sure... anyway, less plastic seems like a good idea...

[Deleted]

The very last of my local supermarkets to give free bags seems to be defying the other places, because it puts out far more bags than necessary, which a lot of the old people (and not just them) snatch up as many as they can get for other purposes.

[questa]

Plastic supermarket bags have been banned in South Australia for about 5 years. We all have re-usable heavy duty fabric bags. Clothing shops still use the heavier, shiny plastic ones with the shop's name on them. There has been a marked drop in plastic litter. We also have 10 cent refund on drink bottles, cans and cardboard milk / juice cartons. Cleanest roadsides in the country and kids have a good source of savings.

[tod2]

Some years ago the South African government launched a campaign to stop the use of plastic bags.
It has failed miserably. The bigger supermarkets like Woolworths punt the use of fabric (polyester) bags with clever logos printed on them like "Save a Rhino" but still pack your groceries into a plastic carry bag at a small charge if you do not have or are unwilling to buy one of them.
The wholesaler which supplies my store with all size plastic bags is still going strong. I don't know how we would manage without a small bag in which to deposit an item like a reel of thread or zip fastener for a customer. I wish I could find the answer.

[htmb]

Do they HAVE to leave the store with a bag, Tod? If I buy something small I typically stick it whatever tote I happen to be carrying, or just walk out with it in my hand, along with my receipt, of course.

[questa]

I didn't think to take my shopping bag to a shop like Tod2's recently.

They don't use plastic bags so my purchase of 8 large balls of knitting yarn had to be carefully balanced and clutched to my bosom as I hurriedly made my way in the rain to my car w-a-y across the car park.

Memo to self...put spare bag in car for 'next time'

[tod2]

Yes indeed htmb - we encourage people to put their purchased items into their own bags with their cash slip but you won't believe the number of shoppers who don't want their slips as proof of payment!
I'm sure I loose a lot of items through theft - like a small pack of Schmetz sewing machine needles are expensive and so easy to conceal.
When you think about it there is no reason why a customer can't wander off and pop a few more things into a plastic bag with the already purchased items...! The bag is a sort of indication that you have paid but occasionally a forgetful person will walk out with a piece of fabric under their arm - usually deep in conversation with a friend they happened to have bumped into!

Now in a national park like Kruger all items purchased from groceries to tourist souvenirs, are packed into paper bags.
OK for the environment but just look at the number of trees chopped down. They should be using recycled paper but I don't think it is. Will check in a few days time when I'm there.

[mossie]

I always carry one or two supermarket "bags for life", which are strong plastic bags meant to be reused. I fold them down and have them in a back trouser pocket. As well as carrying purchases, they can also be used as emergency rain hoods or covers for dirty or wet park benches.

[lagatta]

I have one of those that is insulated (a supermarket promotion). Only carry it with me if I anticipate buying fish, meat or frozen foodstuffs. It fits in my bicycle bags. I have a couple of those supermarket bags (given away at times, as a promotion) and cotton ones that are nicer to carry if walking.

[rikita]

as i said above, my main problem is fruit and vegetables, especially those that are dirty or consist of many small ones that need to be held together (like cherries). there i need to use the bags provided. else, i never go anywhere without a bag or backpack anyway - though sometimes the bag i have is already half full with things, and i end up buying so much i need to buy a plastic bag after all. but that's not that often.

[Deleted]

Damn I had to buy a new plastic bag today because I had none on me. That really irritates me when I think of how many bags I have at home.

[kerouac2]

This subject has made a lot of progress since the topic was first mentioned.

As of 1 January 2022, none of the major fruits and vegetables can be sold wrapped in plastic in France. There are still some exceptions for a year or two for fragile items like raspberries, Brussels sprouts or lettuce. The producers have come out with some excellent substitutes in cardboard baskets or netted bags for things that people want to buy in a certain quantity without have to pick through a pile. Sprouts like alfalfa or soy will be the last to be obliged to change their wrapping.

One of the items that I will be happiest to see disappear are the Spanish cucumbers in shrink wrap which takes at least 5 minutes to tear off the plastic (almost like trying to unwrap a CD). Plenty of other cucumbers are sold without this shit, so why did they bother?

[casimira]

Plastic bags are still used here by most stores. There are a couple of groceries that have paper shopping bags available, but you have to request them from the cashier person.

In the meantime, as of January 1st, NYC is banning all styrofoam boxes, cups, etc.

Many restaurants there are in an uproar over this. I'm not sure what the alternative to "to go" boxes is going to be.

I imagine that it will be aluminum foil boxes with clear plastic lids which is what most of the Chinese restaurants here use. Paper boxes for the rice.
All three of these are recyclable.

[fumobici]

Produce and take-out have been sold for centuries before the invention of plastic I'm sure. Getting rid of plastic/styrofoam packaging for them is only a made-up problem.

[casimira]

I'm thinking that the uproar in NYC has to do with cost control. I would imagine that the cost of using aluminum foil containers is more expensive therefore cutting into their overhead budgets.

[kerouac2]

When it became obligatory for Parisian restaurants to provide "doggy bags" there was a major design competition for various paper boxes -- some with just one central area and others with compartments. I have only seen them on television, but they look excellent. The last time I was at a restaurant where there was too much to eat was at Schwartz's Deli in the Marais ( schwartzsdeli.fr/en/deli/ ) and they were well versed in doggy bags already, so no problem.

[kerouac2]

The diappearance of plastic bags has been pretty much completed without protest, but the next step is causing more problems. Automatically printed cash register receipts were supposed to be eliminated on January 1st and then on March 1st, and then April 1st. Now the government is talking about August or September. Actually, quite a few of my supermarkets have already applied the measure. You have to ask for a printed receipt if you want one, or press the appropriate screen to get one at the automatic check-out. But the little shops still have cash registers that print the receipt automatically, like it or not.

Meanwhile, lots of people have been protesting. In a period of significant inflation, people want to check their receipts immeditely (I do), even if you have the option of receiving it by email, but of course only in stores where you have a registered loyalty card. What a total pain!

I am having difficulty imagining the ecological effectivenes of the measure. I read about it on the internet, and the impact of paper receipts does not seem huge, but it is not insignificant. But there are so many other things that could reduce the carbon footprint even more, like getting rid of useless cardboard and plastic packaging and things like that.

It's not going to be easy.

[htmb]

I don’t understand the "need" to stop printing out receipts. We recycle paper in my area, so any receipt I don’t want to save ends up in my paper recycling bin. Plus, paper breaks down over a short time. In my opinion, the big businesses are where the governments need to focus. Hotels, airlines, factories, etc, not so much the normal consumer and the small retailer.

[cheerypeabrain]

As far as plastic bags go....like most people these days I take my own carrier bags with me when I shop. Some of them are over 10 years old, the sturdier ones anyway. If I shop online with Ocado they collect any of my old Ocado carrier bags and refund me 10p per bag.

If I'm on the market buying veg there's a tendency for the stallholder to automatically tip produce into one of those horrid thin plastic bags...but if they do THAT I always empty the stuff into my own bag and hand theirs back.

[onlyMark]

Don't know what then law is in Germany but I'm always just asked if I want a receipt. Half the time I do, half the time not, it depends what I'm buying. For example I had to buy a new hairdryer so I got one. For half a dozen things from the shop then no.
Don't use plastic bags anymore, I have normal shopping bags that get transported between Bosnia, Germany and Spain in the back of the car.

[fumobici]

Mar 26, 2023 16:39:34 GMT kerouac2 said:

The diappearance of plastic bags has been pretty much completed without protest, but the next step is causing more problems. Automatically printed cash register receipts were supposed to be eliminated on January 1st and then on March 1st, and then April 1st. Now the government is talking about August or September. Actually, quite a few of my supermarkets have already applied the measure. You have to ask for a printed receipt if you want one, or press the appropriate screen to get one at the automatic check-out. But the little shops still have cash registers that print the receipt automatically, like it or not.

Meanwhile, lots of people have been protesting. In a period of significant inflation, people want to check their receipts immeditely (I do), even if you have the option of receiving it by email, but of course only in stores where you have a registered loyalty card. What a total pain!

I am having difficulty imagining the ecological effectivenes of the measure. I read about it on the internet, and the impact of paper receipts does not seem huge, but it is not insignificant. But there are so many other things that could reduce the carbon footprint even more, like getting rid of useless cardboard and plastic packaging and things like that.

It's not going to be easy.

The receipts wouldn't be a problem at all if they were on actual paper with vegetable ink instead of that weird non-recyclable plastic thermosensitive "paper".