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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 11:14:38 GMT
The National Assembly in France has been debating the gay marriage law for the last two weeks, and next week it will get initial approval before going to the Senate. The majority of the French are in favour of the new law, although there is a bit of hesitation about the future rights for artificial insemination or surrogacy. Surrogate mothers are illegal in France and artificial insemination has so far been reserved for people with fertility problems, but naturally there is a great demand among single sex couples for the right to have children and not just adopt.
Anyway, all of that will be in an upcoming debate and has been separated from the current law which is only about marriage, inheritance rights and other responsibilities, etc. A possibly huge complication is that a number of the neighbouring countries already authorise what some of the French are determined to reject. Nobody can stop people in France from going to Spain, Belgium or any other EU country to get what they cannot get in France.
The best thing about these two weeks of debate has been the remarkable transformation of the Minister of Justice, Christiane Taubira, who seemed to be just another rather dull technocrat, although the fact that she is a former independence activist from the overseas department of French Guiana added a little spice to the mix.
In these debates, she has shown herself to be one of the finest orators of the decade, speaking without notes and able to quote long passages of poetry and political statements at the drop of a hat. Even the opposition has been forced to admit that she has been extraordinary. When you see somebody like this in action, it makes you realise how few and far between charismatic politicians are.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 11:25:57 GMT
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Post by lagatta on Feb 10, 2013 12:35:09 GMT
I prefer without the music, which is superfluous. We've had quite a few clips of her here; very impressive.
Though the quip about living in an igloo might ruffle a few feathers ...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 16:30:54 GMT
Well, since she is from the tropics, the idea of an igloo might be the most horrible thing she could think of. Perhaps an Inuit politician might make the same jibe about living in a grass hut.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 0:21:30 GMT
(CNN) -- Same-sex marriage in France came one step closer to legality Tuesday, as lawmakers in the lower house of parliament approved a controversial bill that would extend the right to marry and adopt to same-sex couples.
The measure was voted through in the National Assembly by 329 in favor to 229 against, with 10 deputies abstaining.
The bill must still go before the senate before it becomes law. If passed, it would mark the biggest step forward for French gay rights advocates in more than a decade.
France is not the only nation currently wrestling with the polarizing issue of same-sex marriage.
I was pleased to see Elio di Rupo today in Binche. Belgium totally got rid of that problem 10 years ago already and nobody gave a second thought about having a gay prime minister for the country when the occasion arose. The crowd (okay, a local crowd because he is from the area) chanted "Elio! Elio! Elio!" the moment they saw him.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2013 20:14:49 GMT
Now that same sex marriage is an established event in France, there are still some amazing problems. Eleven nationalities are prevented from getting married according to the law: Poland, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Montenegro, Serbia, Kosovo, Slovenia, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Cambodia and Laos. These countries have bilateral conventions with France to prevent things that are not authorised in the other country. Apparently Cambodia and Laos (and Vietnam) have plans to allow same sex marriage before long, but obviously the biggest problems in France concern Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria.
Most people (at least those in favour of same sex marriage) consider these blockages to be outrageous, because the Maghrebi countries also forbid Muslims from marrying non Muslims, which is something that French law has always ignored. So why on earth is France respecting these other restrictions?
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Post by bjd on Sept 15, 2013 8:39:25 GMT
I don't see your problem. Just because the French parliament voted a same-sex marriage law, despite much public opposition, I don't see why they want to impose it on cultures where it's not acceptable.
If two same-sex Serbians or Algerians were to marry in France, would this mean that their marriage is not recognized in their own country?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2013 9:50:14 GMT
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Post by bjd on Sept 15, 2013 10:57:10 GMT
Sounds like selective application of a law. If the French ignore Moroccan laws about Muslims marrying non-Muslims, then why apply accords dating from 1981 to a new law?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2013 10:58:50 GMT
Exactly.
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Post by rikita on Sept 21, 2013 21:35:50 GMT
never knew such agreements even existed ... so let's say if one country has stricter drug laws, can those people also be punished for using drugs in the other country?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2013 22:15:55 GMT
Just about everybody was surprised that these agreements existed -- particularly the people affected directly by them. I really don't know how many subjects are covered by these bilateral agreements, but since drug use is against the law in both countries (at least these 11 countries), I presume that local law applies to anyone who gets arrested.
Naturally, just like most of the EU countries, extradition is forbidden to any country that applies the death penalty if that penalty is a possibility in the other country. (I would like to say "all" of the EU countries, but the UK is so bizarre sometimes, particularly in being totally submissive the the US, I really do not know if they would extradite anyone to the US who risks the death penalty.)
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Post by lagatta on Sept 22, 2013 11:15:23 GMT
Well, drug use is illegal in all those countries, including France, but penalties are much harsher in some countries.
I see no reason to apply that if France had been ignoring the Muslim - non-Muslim marriage prohibiltion. It simply means that the same-sex marriage would be illegal in the Maghrebi country. Poland is pretty damned fundie as well, in the Catholic version of that.
In practice, do the Maghrebi countries actually give a hard time to Muslims with Algerian, Tunisian or Moroccan nationality who are married to French nationality non-Muslims?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 15:19:53 GMT
To make families happy, there are lots of fake Muslim conversions for wedding purposes. I would imagine that in cases where this has not been done, it would only cause a problem if the couple wanted to settle in one of the Maghrebi countries. The spouse might not be able to get papers without a wedding certificate from the mosque.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2013 23:04:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2013 19:34:24 GMT
My friend who lives in Brazil arrived a couple of days ago for the Christmas holidays. He attended a reception in Sao Paulo recently during the state visit to Brazil by President Hollande and some government ministers, including Christiane Taubira. He said that Christiane Taubira was greeted by the French and Franco-Brazilian community in Sao Paulo with something close to worship. As a black woman and also a South American (she is from French Guiana, which means that Brazil shares a border with France), she was seen as a total success story for the world of racial diversity in 'Old Europe' and as a sign of hope for the future of the world.
It is always fascinating to see how different parts of the world see people, because even though she is one of the most popular politicians in France, she is also one of the most hated in conservative circles.
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Post by kerouac2 on Dec 8, 2017 20:13:09 GMT
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Post by questa on Dec 8, 2017 22:08:59 GMT
In Australia there has to be a 4 weeks notice given for a marriage to take place.
Try finding a Marriage Celebrant with a free space in her/his appointment book for late January!
Singing and dancing, hugs and kisses took over in the Chamber of the Parliament yesterday. The Members now have a break over summer, happy in the knowledge that they got one thing right all year.
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Post by kerouac2 on Dec 8, 2017 22:18:06 GMT
The ambassador was on a talk show here tonight, and it appears that they will be getting married almost immediately in a French marriage. They met in Europe, and the mayor of Paris has offered to perform the ceremony for them. I saw in an article that foreign same sex marriages are recognised immediately by the new Australian legislation.
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Post by questa on Dec 8, 2017 22:26:08 GMT
never knew such agreements even existed ... so let's say if one country has stricter drug laws, can those people also be punished for using drugs in the other country? Naturally, just like most of the EU countries, extradition is forbidden to any country that applies the death penalty if that penalty is a possibility in the other country. (I would like to say "all" of the EU countries, but the UK is so bizarre sometimes, particularly in being totally submissive the the US, I really do not know if they would extradite anyone to the US who risks the death penalty.) Several Australian citizens have been executed in Malaysia and Singapore (Hanging) and Indonesia (Firing squad) for carrying drugs. Australia will not deport prisoners to countries where they might be executed but they overcame that hindrance by allowing the suspects to travel (under secret surveillance) from Australia to a country with capital punishment before arresting them. |
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