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Post by onlymark on Feb 23, 2013 20:37:26 GMT
About 13 years, though I was in India twice after that but to the south.
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Post by slowcoach on Feb 24, 2013 1:42:15 GMT
I like to drive but I am not that fond of traffic or nervous passengers. I am a bit too reckless for some tastes but I am a really good passenger myself. I am pretty relaxed about crashing and will offer calm and sensible assistance prior to impact.
Obviously I have survived and if appropriate I will commend a driver for not killing me.
I don't get annoyed or irritable, I neither panic, cry, cling on to a hand grip for dear life, nor stamp my feet on imaginary pedals,
Strangely no one else ever seems to want to travel with us.
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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 24, 2013 3:09:55 GMT
If you don't have a pesky passenger, you have that seat for snacks, maps, drinks, kleenex, etc. plus you can listen to whatever music you want as loud as you want and sing to your heart's content.
Mark, I wasn't complaining, only explaining that I'd like to comment semi-intelligently & sincerely on various parts of the report, rather than simply saying that it's very nice or some other generic compliment.
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Post by onlymark on Feb 24, 2013 4:18:33 GMT
No problem bixa, I understand.
I am terrible as a passenger and even though I may not offer comments as to the state of driving you can tell many things are on the tip of my tongue.
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Post by mich64 on Feb 24, 2013 4:36:43 GMT
Just spent about a half an hour looking through Mark and I will come back to it tomorrow to enjoy more of the details. I am fascinated by the stone carving on the building facades. It is a trade that must take years to produce such intricate details, the results are beautiful.
I have to admit I stalled the longest on the market photo of the purses... ;D
Enjoyed seeing your accommodations and meals along the way.
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Post by onlymark on Feb 24, 2013 6:37:57 GMT
Take your time Mich, it'll be here a while. If FMT pops in we can get more info on stone carving, I hope.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2013 6:56:37 GMT
I like the shots of the early morning mist in #70 (although I believe that I detected early morning mist in a number of the other photos). Knowing how grueling that part of the planet can be in the middle of the day, with the sun blasting at you like opening an oven door, those moments just after dawn are magical when things are still pretty calm and there is the tang of the cooking fires in the air.
Get up 30 minutes later and you miss it all -- which I have told travelling companions in the past, but they never seem to care. Then again, it is far better to have that time for oneself rather than having someone worrying about getting breakfast or saying "I wish that rooster would shut up."
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Post by mossie on Feb 24, 2013 8:40:07 GMT
This is total overkill ;D ;D, you should be a tour guide or a drill sergeant. Now I know for certain sure that I never want to go to India , the Muddle East put me totally off warm places. Seriously you have given us a real, behind the tourist brochure, look at the real thing. By the way I always think that going to new places solo is much the best way, you can see what you want to see, when you want to. And do what you want to. Thanks
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Post by onlymark on Feb 24, 2013 9:39:06 GMT
k2, fortunately the temperatures during the day were quite reasonable, mid to high twenties at most. I had to put the air con on in the car only a couple of times. The thing that struck me often was how windless it was all day, not a breath.
mossie, tour guide I was and drill sergeant (or what passed for one) I was in the Air Training Corps in my youth.
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Post by lugg on Feb 24, 2013 11:02:38 GMT
I have just looked through once too, there is much I want to look through again.
What strikes me, is that your photos illustrate clearly the stark contrasts between the beauty and the awfulness of India.
I wondered how did you feel going back and seeing how the places you had lived had changed , perhaps for the worse.. did you wish that you had not gone back ?
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Post by onlymark on Feb 24, 2013 13:14:16 GMT
There was good and bad. Good in the way that there is beginning to be some form of care taken with sites of interest, as with Orchha where I used to be able to camp among the ruins, good as in Khajaraho where smoking is now banned from the complex and more restrictions to enter. Bad though in the ever encroachment of people and the expansion of villages. For example, on the last day when I was driving in to Delhi the 'suburbs' lasted tens and tens of kilometres and made for very slow going whereas I used to be able to drive reasonably easily inside. From 1994 to 2000 I was in most of this area between twelve and fifteen times, if not a few more, and there are changes - but usually along the lines of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer type. Though I noticed the all pervasive mobile phone thing with young people, they all seemed to have one, plus obviously internet is now everywhere.
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Post by anshjain97 on Feb 24, 2013 15:10:15 GMT
Great post, thanks!
I love just experiencing street life too. While I wouldn't compare street life vs monuments, a healthy dose of both make a great holiday.
I haven't been in the north in a long time (except for Delhi) so have forgotten some of where you've been, but for the large part, never been. I will probably visit back in Dec though.
Good you were in Feb- Apr onwards gets very hot. June is just torture.
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Post by tod2 on Feb 24, 2013 16:46:59 GMT
What a wonderful photo essay and information on your 10 day trip Mark. I have only been through the photos once so far and kept thinking "I must ask about that, ". After 13 years not in that part of India it must have been very nostalgic for you. Naturally I was appalled by the filth and squalor but it was not unexpected. The opposite was a lovely surprise when you showed us the countryside and beautiful vistas. I'm not keen on old historical buildings that scream neglect and decay even if they are tourist attractions, so forgive me for not raving about them. I had a good laugh at your 'hotel internet' story ;D Unbelievable attitude of the man.......
I will be looking through again, and probably again, so thanks once more for a very enjoyable report.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2013 17:49:25 GMT
It does remind one of those mafia stories about "I'm here to see Joe Blow." "Who wants to know?" etc.
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Post by onlymark on Feb 24, 2013 18:01:13 GMT
ansh, I wouldn't consider going to Rajasthan in the summer either, far too hot. tod, it certainly did bring back memories that I'd long forgotten, even small things. You are forgiven for not raving about neglected old buildings, each to their own.
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Post by bjd on Feb 24, 2013 19:54:55 GMT
I just got to this thread and looked through all the pictures at once.
It's interesting for me since it confirms some ideas I had about India and negates others. I liked the pictures where there were people doing things, the street food pics, even the scenery. Least interesting are the temples with carvings, but that's just me since my preferred travelling is just wandering around streets rather than visiting monuments.
Your trip seems to be a mixture of nice hotels and street food.
What I see in the pictures too is a mixture of nice hotels, clean streets in the fort in Jaisalmer (?) and the filth in other small streets, the garbage in the roads.
I had never wanted to go to India but some of what you show makes me reconsider. Is there a lot of hassling from touts, or do you just know how to deal with stuff like that through experience?
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Post by onlymark on Feb 24, 2013 20:42:09 GMT
The 'nice' hotels are a bit of a misnomer. On the surface they looked nice but what the photos don't show are the dirt and grime, the electrical fittings falling off the walls, the filthy showers, the stains on the bedding that wasn't changed, the dropped food left in the corners, the smell from the drains, the noise from outside and the staff inside plus guests coming and going at all hours etc etc. That's why in Udaipur I'd had enough for at least a night and moved to a better grade of hotel. Even so it wasn't relatively expensive, less than 50 euros a night for all that splendour. Also the fact that in two hotels I requested a change of room due to the state of them. What is a bit of a horror as well is the state of the kitchens that I saw.
However, street food, if picked correctly, as most know can be a lot less unhygienic as it is freshly made, even though the state of the stall can look a bit grim. This is one tactic I use to remain healthy and two points - 1) I didn't feel one moment of the shits or stomach upset at all there, I like to think I have a robust constitution but in reality I can be affected as much as the next person - and 2) the only times I have been ill when in an undeveloped country is from eating in a hotel.
Touts - yes, they can be a problem at the major sites. At the step well I had one who started to show me round - for all of ten seconds until I told him I didn't need a guide and carried on walking. At Khajaraho there was no problem apart from the normal taxi men asking if I wanted one. With having lived in Egypt and travelling a lot then yes, there are ways to deal with them, some in a fun way, mostly just an initial refusal and then ignoring. At Khajaraho they are excluded from the complex and it is rigidly enforced. Outside as I was buying a ticket I was approached by one man, the type I immediately thought would want to be my guide. After an exchange of pleasantries I told him that if he gives me 200 rupees I would be his guide for one hour, but no longer as I was busy with other tourists arriving. He laughed and turned away. Everyone has their own way of dealing with them. Mrs Mark babbles at them in Slovenian pretending not to understand English.
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Post by bjd on Feb 25, 2013 7:53:35 GMT
;D Mrs Mark babbles at them in Slovenian pretending not to understand English.
That's my method with Gypsy beggars -- I speak in Polish and they give up.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 11:03:35 GMT
I went back to page 1 for the time being to get a more leisurely look at the photos. The food looks quite good, although I remember from experience that one can tire of it after a certain amount of time, particularly when one is not a vegetarian. One of the things I always admire in Asia is their ability to put 10 different things on the table for just about every meal. The sight of just about everything makes me drool, although I do also know that some of it looks better than it tastes.
A lot of the road scenes are the things that I know and love, so the motorway is a real surprise. The idea of India having motorways just didn't compute in my mind, although I know rationally that a country that is developing so fast now would obviously have motorways. I just have the stereotypical images of cattle and carts and bicycles and pedestrians on the road embedded permanently in my mind, so the empty motorway is a revelation -- as are some of the other empty roads, since I have only been in heavily populated parts of India, not yet the desert or anywhere like that.
Jaisalmer is a very impressive city. In your first photos of the approach, it immediately brings Carcassonne to mind. I guess that no matter what part of the world you are in, if you want to build huge walled fortresses on top of a hill, they will all look similar -- Bam in Iran comes to mind as well. The hotel does indeed look nice. What method did you use to choose your hotels? Guidebook, internet, trips from the past?
Another thing about the fortress is that the stones look so clean and fresh. In Europe, nothing looks that pristine unless it has just been steam cleaned or sandblasted in the last 2 years or so, but I very much doubt that this is the case here. So this leads me to conclude that there is little or no pollution in the area or perhaps just that the desert storms do their own sandblasting from time to time to keep everything looking so clean.
Anyway, that's all for page one -- for the moment -- but I did not manage to spot the peacock.
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Post by anshjain97 on Feb 25, 2013 11:22:42 GMT
Seriously though, motorways are obviously very common here. Mostly only used ones in the south in past years, most are fine, some are pretty good but some are horrible- mostly because of rain or poor building.
Came back from Pondicherry yesterday. On one, we maintained a rather constant speed of 100 kph. It's by large, not the road that's going to slow you down on such roads, but rather other road users- slow trucks, bicycles etc.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 11:36:14 GMT
My ignorance is due to the fact that I was in India 20 years ago -- I can imagine that so much has changed since then.
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Post by onlymark on Feb 25, 2013 13:10:23 GMT
The Grand Trunk Road north out of Delhi was the only 'motorway in its loosest term' that I went on and was really aware of, though there were dual carriageways dotted about. One thing is the amount of toll roads that seem to have sprung up. I'd often pay a toll to use a bridge, but rarely for a road.
I also suppose that if you build a set of walls on the top of a hill there will always be some similarity, especially if built roughly within the same epoch. Certainly when I see photos of a number of Indian fort cities I always have to look at the rest of the buildings to be certain what city it is- like Jodhpur has countless light blue Brahmin painted houses. You remember that Bam was destroyed mainly and the skyline is not what it was? I presume you are referring to before the earthquake.
It's no real use now relying on what I used to know about hotels, so I choose by using the internet - booking.com, hotels combined, trip advisor etc etc. It just depends on how much time I have when searching. Before leaving it was only the first couple of nights I booked ahead, the rest were booked the night before. Guidebooks are something I peruse but don't particularly consider where accommodation is concerned. Bear in mind on this visit I had the criteria of parking for the car, wifi and ease of getting to, to consider as well as whatever else.
Jaisalmer fort is in the middle of the Thar desert and as such would suffer little from the mold and fungus prevalent in a lot of India. Commonly buildings are semi-covered in a black colour, as with the abandoned step well, but I can only assume because of the dry climate there it has little foothold. Looks a lot cleaner for it.
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Post by anshjain97 on Feb 25, 2013 13:39:46 GMT
I see, Kerouac. Having said that, it is indeed insulting to see Westerners being ill-informed and ignorant about India- have seen a lot of that on TT. 20 years is a long time though, I can understand. I still remember how different Delhi looked from the first city I saw overseas, New York, only almost 11 years ago. NYC's roads were, in comparison, clean. Delhi's roads were filthy, lots of roadwork. Pure contrast between a major city in a developing country and a developed one.
Much of tax money is used for siphoning away so yes, toll roads are very common here. That is, the tax which is paid. Too many tax evaders out here.
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Post by lola on Feb 26, 2013 1:49:59 GMT
Wow. Too amazing photos. The step wells, beautiful, the food, the entirely wild sights.
I'm going to have to start calling you oM again.
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Post by onlymark on Feb 26, 2013 4:27:10 GMT
Call me anything you want.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2013 17:14:42 GMT
Fabulous report Mark. Thank you. I can only echo what others have already said. Safe travel.
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Post by lola on Feb 26, 2013 17:45:25 GMT
Call me anything you want. Okay, Sweetie Pie.
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Post by onlymark on Feb 26, 2013 18:00:18 GMT
It's probably time to start thinking of where next time.
Sweetie pie? I supposed I asked for it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2013 0:11:16 GMT
Okay, sweetie pie, I am going to start making my comments about my second trip through the photos of page 2.
I am curious about photo #2 of reply 30. It looks like there is some sort of industrial creation of some of the 'sculpted' building features. That's fine with me, but do they churn out these building blocks? Photo 3 looks like some sort of building 'fail' but photo 4 is extremely interesting, as though the owner wanted to try out every single available style on the same building. Later on the beams in the passageway make me wonder as to the source of beams in the region. Are there any nearby exploitable forests or would this sort of item have to be brought from a great distance?
I absolutely love the weird extravagance (mixed with totally ordinary features) of the room in #32. What does one pay for this sort of thing?
The pakora in #34 look very tempting, but I do know enough to fear the possible chilis in such an item. I would still like to try them but only if I also have unlimited beer. The following items are also quite interesting but also appear to require beer. I know that this can be a big problem when you are not in a beer area. Even in Pondicherry, I had to use the code word 'special tea' once or twice.
Farther on, the lakeside place looks great. Were the monkeys under control or could they create unwanted mischief if you were not carerful? The market streets look great and yet I still cannot imagine what the people take home to put on their tables. I have never seen Indians eating grapes, yet they seem very plentiful.
The view from the Monsoon Palace is a bit less impressive than I had hoped, but what is that place in the middle of the lake?
Your cheap meal away from the luxury hotel does appear to be a bit grim, but I find that to be one of the joys of travelling in such places. And when it does not satisfy, breakfast tastes even better!
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Post by lola on Feb 27, 2013 0:56:06 GMT
I can figure out what some of those statues are up to in #62 or so, those flexible frisky stone persons. But is that someone hanging by knees from an elephant's trunk in #62? I wonder what's up with that.
What a fascinating whole nother world that is.
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