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Post by nautiker on May 30, 2013 19:49:41 GMT
hi jack, didn't come around to check in here much lately, therefore I saw your message just today! funny thing: the Derby already on whereas over here still the 1000 Guineas are to be held on Sunday... frankly, I don't expect much from Chopin. indeed some decent form so far (from a German point of view), but our 2000 Guineas have actually been rather inconclusive with Tawhid just 3rd. further, his sire Santiago was just an average miler, which makes me question his stamina (I know little about the dam, though). they gave him a workout in Düsseldorf in order to prepare for the sharp bends at Epsom, wonder whether that suffices. so I'm with Dawn Approach and Ocavango. (did you notice Monsun swept both Group I last sunday in Longchamp with Silsaol and Maxios?). I'll only have a wry look at the French Derby - how can one dare running this classic at 10f? racing on the Isles currently looks very much 'Dick Francis'-style with Ahern, Zarooni, Dettori etc meanwhile, German Racing on the further decline: our Derby winner of 2011, Waldpark, recently runner-up in Baden-Baden, has just been sold to Australia, there'll be little left of this noble family in a couple of years... don't know whether you noticed Pastorius took a shot at a race in Singapore: started favourite, came last but one. I can only consider this running as a desparate attempt to cash in on a good horse: he'll never be interesting for breeding outside Germany, where no longer any money is to be made. so I guess the strategy was either winning a considerable amount of prize money OR making yourself attractive for potential buyers from the Far East/Australia OR both - failed, though... looking forward to Sunday, weather forecast looks fine...
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Post by waterhazardjack on May 31, 2013 1:17:57 GMT
Hi Nautiker...gosh, you're a little hard on German racing there...I realise it's domestically in decline but probably never held in higher regard in our part of the world...Chopin's form is probably no better or worse than some of the others and it's always a doubt whether these 3yos will stay...with the withdrawal of Magician, that (money back behind DA) 10/1 at Ladbrokes looks better and better...))
Yes, I've been following the Monsun saga for the last few years thanks to yourself and Tony Morris!...it's like every weekend I open the RP and read about another Monsun pattern race exploit...would be great if Ocovango wins on Saturday for him...his status as a breeding legend would be secure...
re Pastorius...I saw that venture to Singapore alright and was very disappointed...but he could still have an exciting year in Europe so all is not lost...he was arguably the best 3yo colt in Europe last year, so we'll see...and you know I must have been deluded that last day at Iffezheim as I thought Waldpark beat Novellist, if I'm thinking of the right race?...either the commentator or myself got them mixed-up!
Back to Epsom...Snow Queen is out so I may just back the favourite in the Oaks...I believe Stoute's filly is under-priced so distorting the market, in my opinion...she reminds me of his Islington who had a similar build and matured later in the summer...anything over 2/1 should be value for Secret Gesture...
Magician withdrawn today so the options narrow...I've seen Battle of Marengo run twice at The Curragh and thought he was a bit of a tank - a VW Passat, in Auto parlance!...mind you the ground was appalling with so much rain last Autumn, so maybe I'm too hard on him but he may find Epsom too tricky...but because he's gone I'm guessing O'Brien will make this a real stamina test with his pacemakers...I just hope they don't go and ruin the race, that's all...could be Ocovango is very good each-way value but I still want Dawn Approach to win for Grumpy Jim B..))
PS...the preparation won't make any difference to Chopin...that spin backwards at Duesseldorf is more than some of these will have tried...Spencer knows his job so with a fast pace from O'Brien's 'hares', expect him to sit out the back and bide his time...then Chopin either delivers or not - no pressure!!
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Post by spindrift1 on Jun 1, 2013 21:27:04 GMT
Gosh! you guys are really impressive. The last time I went to the races was at Goodwood, an evening meeting. It was my first time there. Otherwise I've been to Ascot many times. I have got to grips with betting at the Tote and enjoy watching the horses parade around in the ring prior to the race and before I place my bets. This is all of I know of racing
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Post by nautiker on Jun 9, 2013 15:07:49 GMT
hi spindrift, kind of you to drop by – if I ever make it to Goodwood (‚glorious‘ or not, I’d be looking forward to the occasion!), or any other course in Britain, I’d certainly enjoy if you’d like to come along! cheers jack, I have to confess Chopin’s achievement pleasantly surprised me – yet all will depend on whether he’ll be able to impress in the future (fort he time being, I stick to Ocovango). And just like the rest oft the world, Dawn Approach’s performance left me completely puzzled… and once again you prooved to be extremely well informed: I didn’t tell you Chopin took his canter in Düsseldorf anti-clockwise, wouldn’t have assumed this detail to travel very far! so, we’ve had our 1000 Guineas. I’m a bit undecided about the outcome, the race has a rep both for rank outsiders as for hot favourites, some of each fading into oblivion, some into bright stardom. fillies having run here before usually have an advantage, but others sometimes handle the tricky course well, either. And then it has become popular to race ‚fresh‘ in this race, i.e. there’s often a number of dark horses with little racing experience (and often just in minor races) or even maiden starters. The training setback due to the cold spring and the closure of Cologne last autumn made it difficult to assess form, just like the outcome oft he major trial in Cologne previously, that saw six starters finishing within 3 lengths – to cut a long story short, betting in this race prooved a miserable failure for me this year… the only solace: I definitely wouldn’t have picked the winner, Akua’da, who was sweating distinctly in the parade ring and delayed the start by several minutes by flusteredly refraining from entering the stalls – before leading home easily start to finish… What an extraordinary filly and a nice result for the Brümmerhof stud (former owners of Danedream), who snatched two further races for 3yo from the rest of the card to make it a perfect treble… (did you notice that her mother, Akua’ba, was one tough Irish filly from Jim Bolger?) Weather was bright yet unexpectedly really chilly, therefore the crowd was rather meagre for such a spectacular meeting – I’ll try to pull together that photo report real soon - Btw, did I tell you that since 2005 it has prooved impossible to find a sponsor for this race? Peter Schiergen was very much off form that day, with two hot favourites coming home also-rans and two promising runners in the showpiece performing below par, too – seems he recovered, though, considering he took home a GrIII in Haydock yesterday, and with only getting beaten by a head for a further GrIII during the same meeting, as well as several other races this weekend… Had to read Irish jockey Terence Kelleher died last week in Baden-Baden, aged just 64 – I faintly recall him from my early racing days, I would need to look up when he decided to retire (I assume that it was shortly after that horrific fall he had in Iffezheim)… and since we’re at Baden-Baden: Waldpark was indeed just 2nd, only beaten by a head, though Meanwhile, the current deluge of water in Southern and Eastern Germany has flooded Halle racecourse, and it seems Velká Chuchle in Prague has been hit again, too, just like back in 2002: www.facebook.com/velka.chuchleI hadn’t expected the flashback on the past NH season I noticed in Auteuil today: rarely enough I see runners from the Isles starting here, tremendously delighted ‚my‘ Solwhit ran decently! Next meeting for me will be Cologne in a week: ‚Die Union‘ is considered the key trial for the German Derby in July - and since I haven’t been to the track for quite some time now, I might as well go… regards, nautiker
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Post by waterhazardjack on Jun 18, 2013 0:19:35 GMT
Hi Nautiker, hope you had a good day at Koeln yesterday. My spies tell me Ivanhowe ran a good race and is in a good place for the Deutsches Derby...I agree with your assessment of the 'Ein Tausend' and also Ars Nova didn't do a lot for me last week, either...
"The Thoroughbred exists because its selection has depended, not on experts, technicians, or zoologists, but on a piece of wood: the winning post of the Epsom Derby." Federico Tesio.
"We are so lucky to be in the position that we are in, to get such horses. They are incredibly bred horses and, even before they are mated, the dream is for this to happen.” Aidan O’Brien.
And so it came to pass that Ruler of the World gave Aidan O’Brien his 4th Derby winner and Coolmore their 3rd consecutive victor. The big story of the race was the self-immolation of the hopes of hot favourite Dawn Approach who failed to settle in spectacular fashion and burned himself out over the first 8 furlongs or so, eventually trailing in a distant last. Like his Derby winning father, New Approach, he lit up on the contours and inclines of Epsom Downs, but unlike his sire he refused to be allowed to be restrained and careered around the famous course like a runaway train…
Hard to know how good a race this was and how capable the winner is but he was mighty impressive at Chester - like stablemate Magician - and although it was a slow-ish race, the first 4 home were all the presumed stayers of the race. Ryan Moore gave a master class in how to guide a horse down the notorious slope of the Epsom straight, not only timing his challenge to perfection but also making sure a potential revival Ocavango was denied an opening at the crucial time. German raider Chopin ran a decent race finishing a proximate 7th but jockey Jamie Spencer was interviewed afterwards and cautioned for not riding the horse out to the limit of his potential. No doubt Andreas Wohler was grateful to see his horse taken care of when his winning chance had gone…
In the Oaks, Talent was a surprising winner over her companion Secret Gesture. I didn’t intend to have a bet, but when SG touched 3/1, I had to take the value so had a small each-way on the favourite whose ‘winnings’ I began to calculate at the 2 furlong marker! I really should know better at my age! Like her half-brother (Dawn Approach), Talent threw her head around for the best part of the race but the quicker tempo of the Oaks meant Hughes was able to settle her better and by the time he launched his challenge most of the others were coming back to him - job well done…
Which brings us to Royal Ascot which has the potential to be a real treat although likely to be overhung by some melancholy after the demise of its most famous talisman, Henry Cecil…
I had a nice bet on Farrh in the Lockinge last month as I thought that Declaration of War was a ludicrous favourite. Unfortunately, Farrh is missing tomorrow but DoW reappears and is once again thoroughly under-priced, in my opinion, so I think Elusive Kate represents great each-way value. Regrettably, I’ve had to watch her price diminish daily, from 14/1 last week to 13/2 this evening, when I placed my bet. Ah well, it’s the price we pay for waiting for guaranteed odds, plus non-runner, no bet…
Dawn Approach’s declaration in the St James Palace Stakes has really shaken things up and once again, the market looks wrong to me so I’ve taken a modest each-way bet on Magician at 11/4 which looks like outstanding value to me. His stablemate Mars is a very dark horse in the same race but DA has it all to prove now, I believe. We shall see…
On Wednesday, I’ll be keeping a close eye on Lady Cecil’s impressive Curragh scorer, Chigun, who is currently best-priced at 10/3 but the presence of another old favourite, Thistle Bird, may stay my hand. However, there will be no such caution employed in the Queen Mary at 5.00 where Clive Brittain’s Rizeena will carry my bet of the week, hopefully at 7/1 or better!
Really, too many races to comment on or I’ll be here all night but a special mention for our German friends as Andi Wohler provides 2 credible challengers for the Gold Cup on Thursday, in Altano and Earl of Tinsdal. Altano has the more obvious form - including a recent win over EoT at Hoppegarten - but I know some shrewd punters who have the money down already on the gallant Earl. It’s a fascinating contest including Willie Mullins’ Simenon who is a major player…
And so…in approx 12 hours time, I’ll be seated in pole position, in the luxurious armchair of my local turf accountant, strong coffee and formbook in hand, and with my secret reserve of optimism retrieved from the pawn shop - now is the time to bet like men!!!
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Post by waterhazardjack on Jun 18, 2013 1:24:12 GMT
Sir Henry Richard Amherst Cecil - In Appreciation
Plenty has been written about HRAC in the last few days, so I’ll just add a few lines of my own. I was fortunate enough to meet him once on the day he won the Curragh Cup with Memorise in 1998. In those days the CC was the last race on the Irish Derby card and also the old photo-finish prints could sometimes take an age to be decided. Myself and my girlfriend had some complimentary grandstand tickets and came down late, well after the end of the race. The photo-finish was still ongoing and almost everyone was gone, apart from the connections of the 2 horses concerned. We were hanging over the rail beside Cecil and his wife Natalie and I asked him whether he thought he had won or not. When he heard we had watched the race from the grandstand, he tilted his head in that droll way of his and insisted we must have had the best view and asked us what our opinion was…which led on to some good repartee culminating in a lively discussion about the great Ardross as Cecil became visibly animated, talking about the remarkable days of stayers Le Moss, Buckskin, and the aforementioned, ex-Irish Ardross. Then the result was announced, he thanked us warmly for our interest and joined Fallon and the rest of his entourage in the winner’s enclosure. Excellent memories…
When I was growing up, Cecil was a peculiar fixture on the racing stage, combining the air of a louche boulevardier with a roster of top owner-breeders and a formidable big-race win record. Although on first look, he came across as an eccentric, demi-aristocrat, HRAC was no dilettante and the statistics will back that up. Famously, Cecil’s string were later-in-the-morning arrivals on the daily Newmarket gallops and their master was never to be seen with anything as vulgar as binoculars, mobile phone or even a stop-watch. Once when asked did he have a weighbridge, he expressed some surprise and replied he had no need as he didn’t own a lorry! No - Cecil did it all by eye, propped up on his favourite white hack, while seemingly going into a trance when the horses came by, taking mental photos of his charges while chain-smoking his way through the day…
Surprisingly, he was an infrequent visitor to Ireland despite his many connections with this country - principally through his step-father and mentor, Sir Cecil Boyd-Rochford, of course. In fact, his very first classic winner was the 1973 Irish 1,000 Guineas with Cloonagh, bred down the road at Tally Ho Stud by his half-brother, Arthur. Many of the Warren Hill staff were Irish including Shane Fetherstonhaugh, latterly responsible for Frankel. Not to mention jockeys like Mick Kinane, Kieran Fallon, Tom Queally, etc…
My favourite Cecil horse was the aforementioned Ardross, who started life with Paddy Prendergast here in Ireland before being sold to Charles St George when ‘Darkie’ died in 1980. Runner-up to Le Moss in all 3 of the Gold Cups in 1980 - although beaten by less than a length in total - he went on to win the Ascot Gold Cup twice plus many other races, and sensationally almost carried off the 1982 Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe when failing by a head to catch the Aga Khan’s filly, Akiyda, under another arguably controversial, Lester Piggott Longchamp ride. He won 13 pattern races in all which was a record for the time…
Another favourite was the indomitable Kris, who won almost all his races and didn’t know when to give up. And who will ever forget Oh So Sharp who carried off the Fillies Triple Crown in 1985 when Steve Cauthen had crossed the Atlantic to forge a wonderful relationship with Cecil and Warren Hill……
It was surely some kind of Kismet that teamed up Frankel with Sir Henry and Khalid Abdullah, who along with Stavros Niarchos had remained loyal to Cecil after his personal and professional fortunes plummeted in the first 7 years of the new century. Guided expertly by all at Warren Place, Frankel remained unbeaten in all of his 14 starts. Although criticised by many for not taking Frankel out of his ‘comfort zone’ in relation to extending his racing distance or leaving England to meet international competition head-on, anyone who had studied Cecil’s ‘modus operandi’ over the years wouldn’t have been greatly surprised. Sir Henry was in some ways a throwback to an age when the British sporting establishment thought they had nothing to prove beyond its own shores. Thus, Cecil had no particular interest in participating in the Breeders Cup until Sheikh Mohammed prodded him reluctantly into it. And, as mentioned above, his runners in Ireland, France and Italy were comparatively infrequent…
So, in an age when the racing of thoroughbreds has come to resemble the Formula One motor racing circuit, who is to say he was not wrong to eschew the transporting of highly-strung and fragile 2, 3 and 4 year-old exemplars of their species to all corners of the globe for monetary gain and vainglorious display…
In all probability, we will not see his likes again…
Ar dheis De, go raibh a anam…
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Post by nautiker on Jun 18, 2013 20:37:19 GMT
rant: I bloody hate it, took me ages to type a lengthy reply and now it's all gone, will try again tomorrow
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2013 21:46:49 GMT
Oh, I know so well how that feels!
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Post by waterhazardjack on Jun 19, 2013 1:43:40 GMT
rant: I bloody hate it, took me ages to type a lengthy reply and now it's all gone, will try again tomorrow Me too! Almost happened last night during that Henry Cecil valedictory post...really detest when it happens - would drive you mad...(( Actually, I was just thinking of you this afternoon during Ascot, Nautiker, as when you were last there I think it was also an Irish benefit? Question: is the parade ring and winner's enclosure as lacking in atmosphere as it looked on TV today?...(I'm an 'Analogue Man' so have no more 'Fernsehen', I'm afraid!)...the coverage on Channel 4 seemed to be quite good (there was a lot of debate about how they would replace BBC) but the reception for the winners looked very poor...when the old parade ring was demolished during the renovations a few years ago, there was a lot of disgruntlement, particularly the cutting down of the trees... How did you find it?
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Post by nautiker on Jun 19, 2013 7:02:48 GMT
Damn, I almost always put lengthy replies in cache before hitting ‘reply’, yet never when it really matters- next try Last week was indeed overshadowed by Henry Cecil’s death – though it came unexpected, I guess it didn’t surprise anyone. It seems the twists of life gave him plenty of everything, and I’m glad his achievements were crowned by the last two seasons with Frankel. Since he didn’t send his horses abroad that often, I’m a bit pressed to recall one of his runners personally, yet there must have been some over here, as his name is embedded in my earliest racing days’ memories… It was a good meeting at Cologne with great atmosphere, so indeed I saw Ivanhowe win in gallant style (didn’t back him, though, since I had my money on the hapless Night Wish, brother to the great great Night Music), but once again I restrain from early praise since a) he’s from the Schlenderhan ‘I’-family (you recall my reservations!), however b) he’s from Soldier Hollow (2nd crop) whom I value so much, yet c) he’s ‘misspelt’, a detail that always annoys me, as you know… much enjoyed the 3rd place by rank outsider Orsello, who comes from a really small stable in Dortmund and whose connections celebrated as if they’d actually won . Promising Nuntius, half brother to Novellist and a beautiful dark grey (thanks to his dad Dalakhani), was sweating in the paddock already, failed to impress (so unlike Akua'da...) and won’t be running in the Derby. speaking of it, it looks as if we’ll have a ‘domestic’ jockey shortage in Hamburg early July: Adrie de Vries just broke his foot on Monday, Filip Minarik will be suspended and Wladimir Panov will be missing, too. And since we’re further at it: I was really tempted to go to Hannover on Sunday, since my favourite jockey of my early racing days, Erwin Schindler, had a rare return in a veteran’s race there – yet I had learned on very short notice only and the trip would have taken all day So, Dawn Approach redeemed himself in a thrilling finish, whereas Magician was hampered badly I understand – will be interesting to see a rematch, especially against Declaration of War as well. I sympathise for your Kate, too, however was even more disappointed about Animal Kingdom: US runners are so very rare anywhere besides America, I really wished he’d been rewarded with something to take home (and did I tell you he has a German mum?). It will be interesting to see Wöhler’s mounts in Ascot: he’s in form and both have some class, yet whether that’s actually good enough to nick the Gold Cup I’m not quite convinced, maybe Chopin is running with better chances – and don’t disregard the other German runner, Ideal, by up-and-coming trainer Ferdinand Leve, though he might just be there for the show. I’m lazy so just two easy picks for today: Tawhid in the opener (for running in our 2000 Guineas – btw, they’re usually pronounced ‘Guinness’ over here… ) and Maxios in the showpiece (for Monsun). p.s. poor Snow Fairy, injured again! p.p.s. I admit that we freely opted for the saddling enclosure in Ascot instead, much better atmosphere. The paddock is obviously a compromise in order to satisfy the large crowds, especially with its dual purpose as a winning enclosure, so I cannot really blame them, yet it indeed lacks something (and I have yet to find a paddock I liked that didn’t have trees), so yes, you're right... p.p.p.s. 'Irish benefit' - hehe, like that one ;D
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Post by waterhazardjack on Jun 20, 2013 1:47:06 GMT
Hi Nautiker, many thanks for the German update...allows me to keep an eye on developments over there and be forewarned about potential raiders! Speaking of which, it will be a nice test for Chopin tomorrow...and maybe he will get the dividend for Spencer 'dropping his hands' at Epsom But I don't hold out much hope for Ideal in this company My expectation is that Indian Chief will run a decent race, so I may have a small investment there... Great result for Dawn Approach and Jim Bolger...it was Sheikh Mohammed's idea to go for the Derby (JB didn't enter DA) and Bolger's determination to run on Tuesday, so a real result for audacity...reminded me a little of Sizing Europe and Finian's Rainbow last year at CH, as Toronado was definitely unlucky...should be very interesting if they all meet at Goodwood, including DofWar and Farrh - that would be a race! No excuses for Magician as he did more sinning than being sinned against! Maxios was a little outclassed today and maybe no surprise as the Group 1 win in France was a trifle weak, I would say...but that was a good result for Tawhid in a very good race for the Jersey Stakes, as the first two are useful - well done! Sometimes I have to wonder if it's a wise choice of mine not to go in for a little more 'sporting or cultural nationalism'...watching Ireland carry off the first 6 Group races of the meeting (a little like the Champion's Meeting you attended, last year) had me shifting uneasily in my seat, at times, I have to admit! Anyway...my discipline saw me sit through almost every race so far, and then load onto Rizeena as per my initial judgment, so maybe I'd better not start whinging, just yet...)) Tomorrow, I fancy 'Alive Alive Oh' to run very well in the Ribblesdale Stakes, but got a real shock this evening to see she's 5/2 favourite when I was expecting to get a touch at somewhere between 5 and 12/1...so I just have a small each-way now, instead...if I get some cash from that, I may have another small wager on Indian Chief, later on... The Gold Cup is a smasher and so many have viable chances, including AW's 'brace'...I think if I had to have a bet, I would maybe place a small each-way on 'Times Up', but really, so many have possibilities...
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Post by nautiker on Jun 20, 2013 20:36:16 GMT
seems this didn't quite work out for Altano: decent race and no disgrace, yet maybe Pedroza waited a little too long. anyway, it was right the focus was on another horse today. I'm certainly no royalist, yet Estimate's win was a great event, and I'm definitely delighted for the Queen (as breeder/owner)! haven't seen a replay of the Gold Cup yet, just found Her Majesty's cute reaction on youtube:
(I almost expected Lord Warren to kiss and hug her - I wonder what would have been the consequences?). and did you notice she's by Monsun (rethorical question, of course you did)...
the Queen used to send horses to Germany too, alas the last one I'm aware of must have been ages ago.
as for Chopin, well, once more a good race, but he really can't carry on like that... Ideal indeed was just a tourist. any explanation for Indian Chief's poor show?
Riposte's win for Warren Place/Abdullah once more has that strange touch of higher powers pulling strings - you couldn't stage something like this...
too many 2yo and 3yo tomorrow - I barely know them, no, actually I don't know them at all (except for Battle of Marengo). instead, I'll pick Dashing Star in the Vase for fun and Aiken in the Hardwicke Stakes on the final Saturday, 'cause I've seen him in perform so greatly on his last outing in Ascot ;D
p.s. congrats to Rizeena!
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Post by nautiker on Jun 21, 2013 6:10:35 GMT
just found this explanation for Animal Kingdom's poor performance - if I understand correctly, it seems he was already thinking of his new career... "Animal Kingdom left his race in the paddock at Royal Ascot today when he lost his focus after becoming studdish. Horrible way for him to end his career, but it happened, I saw it with my own two eyes and the horse spent his last 15 minutes in the paddock on 5 legs. Not what we wanted to see. As one of our partners said to me 'Sex in the work place is never a good idea."Barry Irwin p.s. just realised: that must have been your Kate who turned his head...
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Post by nautiker on Jun 23, 2013 20:19:02 GMT
well, what a mixed bag for the end of the week: Thomas Chippendale's fate in the Hardwicke was a real dampener - I'm somewhat relieved Aiken was a non-participant in that race, I couldn't have cared about any performance (wondering about his real long break by now, though).
so, Novellist added the Grand Prix de Saint Cloud to his merits (just like Acatenango did back in '86). you know I'm a die-hard pessimist when it comes to class of German horses, therefore I allow myself to remain skeptical for the King George, especially taking into account Cirrus des Aigles is notoriously poor on his first outing - I admit N ran very decently, though, and I'm even more pleased about Haya Landa, who's by the (breeding-wise) much less fortunate age cohort and stable mate to Monsun, Lando, whom he literally wrestled down to win the German Derby back in '93...
oh, and just because I learned how to do it, I'll add that fantastic Gold-Cup to this thread:
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Post by waterhazardjack on Jun 25, 2013 1:43:25 GMT
Gosh Nautiker, you're really going overboard on this Gold Cup...are you John Warren in disguise?!! Mind you, you wouldn't be the first one to impersonate him this year...I suspect he's relieved after the year he's being having...do you know about Twittergate? www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/twitter/9975887/Queens-racing-manager-faces-police-quiz-over-Twitter-suicide.htmlany explanation for Indian Chief's poor show?Yes, he's probably not much good! O'Brien seldom runs his best contender in the Dante so I should have known better...also, the winner there was Libertarian and so far all those Derby horses have been beaten; Battle of Marengo, Mars and Chopin, so it looks like an average crop...btw, I was really disappointed that Leading Light ran in the 2 miler as I really rate this horse and he should be in the King Edward VII or Irish Derby...this is the problem with one stable having so much (or too much!) talent... I just missed the Grand Prix yesterday but great win for Novellist, under Ryan Moore, and nice compensation for Team Woehler...I don't share your pessimism and am delighted to see these 2 fine German horses heading for Ascot...probably the best 2 3yo colts in Europe last year?...bist du einverstanden oder... Seems like every Monday I open the 'paper to read about the exploits of Monsun - amazing! But Ascot was great, as usual...I thought the Coronation Stakes was the highlight of the week...plus sensational meeting for Johnny Murtagh from a handful of rides...and a few controversies like the Hardwicke Stakes and Animal Kingdom's running on 5 legs! Roll on The Curragh...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 20:09:40 GMT
What about the rumour that the Queen secretly spends most of her time in Le Touquet to look after her horses?
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Post by nautiker on Jun 27, 2013 21:13:53 GMT
sorry, kerouac, you've lost me there
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 21:37:45 GMT
Oops, it's one of the best kept secrets of the equestrian world, apparently.
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Post by nautiker on Jun 28, 2013 6:00:37 GMT
are you prospecting to launch a career as whistleblower? always dreamt of spending your sunset years in Ecuador?
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Post by nautiker on Jun 29, 2013 21:58:48 GMT
kerouac, just realised you might be talking about her stud of hippocampi - they're for carriages, though (see Greek mythology), so only indirectly to do with racing. jack, got you message. don't be shy, this thread is for clogging up (until we're stopped by the mods that is). indeed, I'd be thrilled to see Secret Gesture in the German Oaks - I had been very skeptical about moving the race to such a late fixture, yet it seems that there's really a gap that needed to be filled which is now paying off! really curious about your opinion on the Derby - that was obviously a real family affair seems the 3yo currently run a bit like chicken: sometimes one is in front, sometimes another... (did you know Trading Leather is still entered for the German Derby next week? that would be a bit close, though - perhaps better for us ) (and you even had fair weather...) meanwhile, Akua'ba was well beaten in Hamburg today by a decent, yet not outstanding 4yo mare in a Gr III, with Calyxa finishing not too far behind, either... I'm starting to reconsider my opinion about last season's 3yo - perhaps Pastorius, Novellist et al are indeed from an above average year?
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Post by waterhazardjack on Jun 30, 2013 0:12:07 GMT
really curious about your opinion on the Derby - that was obviously a real family affair seems the 3yo currently run a bit like chicken: sometimes one is in front, sometimes another... (did you know Trading Leather is still entered for the German Derby next week? that would be a bit close, though - perhaps better for us ) I'm starting to reconsider my opinion about last season's 3yo - perhaps Pastorius, Novellist et al are indeed from an above average year? Good man, Nautiker, and thanks for the link...not sure which was more enjoyable...(a) Trading Leather winning for the Bolger family business (b) hearing the great Dessie Scahill (retiring this year - Schade!) make his 'AnyPort' commentating debut or (c) seeing Kevin Manning wave his whip after victory (first demonstration of any kind, in his 47th year!)...btw, Festive Cheer looked a little unlucky...always very hard to get up the inside at The Curragh... So...like last year, every single runner from Epsom is getting beaten, week after week...best Irish 3yos are TL, Leading Light and Kingsbarns, I believe...and Telescope should be worth waiting for...but really, not much to shout about...back to TL, I have no doubt that Bolger would have sent him to Epsom until the Sheikh intervened...the good news is that he'll probably now go for the King George as JB likes that race and believes the top 3yos should race against the 4yos, etc...unlike Coolmore who divide up the races to accommodate all their charges and stud priorities... Yes, you know I rate Novellsit and Pastorius hihgly and we should allow Camelot some 'slack' as colic is a very serious ailment... King George could be very interesting - too bad I'll be back on the road, at that time...))
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Post by nautiker on Jul 6, 2013 12:02:00 GMT
jack, when I wrote that it would be fine for us to clog up this thread I didn't particularly think of double-postings the 3yos are getting beaten by the older ones over here, too, e.g. just yesterday again in a 10f Gr.2 in Hamburg, though I'd say that it's still early enough in the season for the young ones to make up for it (at the end of this month they need to show their colours, though). tomorrow is 'our' Derby, and I must admit my heart is bleeding a bit: I was really looking forward to this race, as it has been a long time since I've been this closely 'involved' with the colts, however beginning of the week I had to learn Orsello (the one who surprised the crowds in Cologne) had to be put down after an injury Iwanhowe will start favourite, yet I don't take him for granted. I'll keep an eye on Global Bang (from Manduro's first crop if I'm not mistaken) and Limario, our 'Winterfavorit' (=Dewhurst Stakes winner) from a small stable in Berlin instead. there's an unusual wide range of trainers in the race this year: there've been times in which Schiergen and Wöhler combined stood for more than half of the field, however this year Schiergen has merely 3 and Wöhler just a single starter (which isn't even Pedroza's mount), all in all there are 10 different trainers in this race... really curious about the Eclipse this afternoon - for a change I think Pastorius is running with real long odds - it will be a difficult race nevertheless. I accept Hofer's explanation that P didn't like the climate on his outing in Singapore, so hope he gets into the frame. it was only after your remark that I caught up on that Dawn Approach/Trading Leather conflict - found some very well phrased words by Bolger in the Guardian, he would be suitable for the 'diplomatisches Parkett', as one would say over here - and glad he was rewarded for his self-restraint anyway. on a different note: I guess 'Manning' is a pretty common name in Ireland? I recall we had two Mannings riding in Germany back in the Nineties, however none of them was a Kevin... it's a bit sad to read about the current fate of Dettori - too much gossip for my taste when every single mount is viewed critically whether it's a step back into the limelight or one further down the stairs (e.g. Bermuda Reef tomorrow in Hamburg). he looked harried when I saw him in Cologne. wasn't familiar with Dessie Scahill - but I can feel your tribulation: our own 'iconic' Manfred Chapman retired last year, and though his successors are giving their best, there's something lacking nowadays...
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Post by nautiker on Jul 6, 2013 19:52:06 GMT
no excuses for Pastorius
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Post by waterhazardjack on Jul 12, 2013 3:26:04 GMT
And the Lord said..."a filly shall emerge from the depths of Cambridgeshire and fill the boots of all those who truly believe"...
Rizeena - Newmarket 2.10pm - Friday!
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Post by htmb on Jul 12, 2013 3:50:07 GMT
What are the odds the Duchess of Cambridge will give birth on the day of the Duchess of Cambridge Stakes? ;D
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Post by waterhazardjack on Jul 12, 2013 12:24:06 GMT
What are the odds the Duchess of Cambridge will give birth on the day of the Duchess of Cambridge Stakes? ;D That's not the filly I'm talking about! Now is the time to bet like men...
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Post by nautiker on Jul 12, 2013 20:56:52 GMT
That's not the filly I'm talking about! think she'd be considered a mare by now? anyway, that result is what you get for being unfaithful to your Kate, jack, you should have stuck to the elusive #1 in the 2.40 instead of the 2.10 I would have deemed it highly appropriate for the Princess to deliver today - well, she still has two hours left, guess the odds are lengthening quickly, though...
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Post by waterhazardjack on Aug 7, 2013 1:02:28 GMT
Rizeena - Newmarket 2.10pm - Friday! Now is the time to bet like men... Or cry like a baby, maybe! To compound my misery, I backed Rosdhu Queen at York and later on that evening, Pithoun at Pontefract. Which added up to my worst day for some time. But I do still think Rizeena is a sweet filly who will win more good races, both this year and next...
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Post by waterhazardjack on Aug 7, 2013 1:14:57 GMT
so, Novellist added the Grand Prix de Saint Cloud to his merits (just like Acatenango did back in '86). you know I'm a die-hard pessimist when it comes to class of German horses, therefore I allow myself to remain skeptical for the King George, especially taking into account Cirrus des Aigles is notoriously poor on his first outing - I admit N ran very decently, though, and I'm even more pleased about Haya Landa, who's by the (breeding-wise) much less fortunate age cohort and stable mate to Monsun, Lando, whom he literally wrestled down to win the German Derby back in '93... Still skeptical, Nautiker? Just back from an intense trip (including a week in Bavaria) and had to wait a while for the King George to be uploaded to YT, but it's there now and what a great performance! And more good news that Johnny Murtagh can keep the ride for the Arc...and even Baden Baden, if Andi Wohler wishes to use him, there? I'm sure you might agree that Murtagh is probably the best trainer currently riding?
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Post by waterhazardjack on Oct 3, 2013 1:53:14 GMT
PRIX DE L'ARC DE TRIOMPHE 2013And so the great wheel turns and once again the annual countdown to Europe’s - if not the world’s - greatest horserace begins in earnest… Starting point for thoroughbred anoraks is often the ‘going’ and weather can, of course, make fools of us all but the current outlook for Sunday seems to be on the soft side of good with rain expected in Paris over the next few days. ‘So what?’ I can hear the non-equine follower say, ‘just bring your top coat and throw an umbrella in the back off the car’ but we’re talking underfoot conditions for the horses here, my friend... On the face of it, Sunday’s context is one of the most anticipated and open in many years, with several top class contenders boasting worthwhile claims. So much so, in fact, that a horse like Trading Leather who has already this year won the Irish Derby and finished second in the King George and York International can be backed at 33/1 while last year‘s ‘wonder horse‘ Camelot currently trades at 50/1! As I write, the betting goes something like this… Orfevre 5/2, Treve 9/2, Novellist 11/2, Kizuna 9/1, Intello 12/1, Ruler of the World 14/1, Flintshire 14/1, Al Kazeem 16/1, Leading Light 16/1, The Fugue 25/1, Ocovango 33/1, Trading Leather 33/1, Bar 50/1 and upwards… One of the puzzling aspects of this book is that genuine and proven Group One regulars like Al Kazeem, The Fugue and Trading Leather are comparative outsiders, while other less exposed animals like Flintshire, Ruler of the World and Treve are favoured, instead. Al Kazeem merits close inspection as I thought his Jockey Club Stakes win over 12f on soft ground last year was hugely impressive and so I thought he would be put away for the Arc after his early season heroics, but instead he was puzzlingly sent to York and Leopardstown. His conqueror on that last occasion was The Fugue who is a really high-class filly but probably undone now by the rainfall. Likewise Trading Leather’s chance may have gone now with the expected ‘give’ in the ground. Treve has been making people catch their breaths with the dynamic finishing burst she has unleashed in her few racecourse appearances so far, including the French Oaks, and will have many admirers. Ruler of the World won a Derby at Epsom that remains difficult to enthuse about while Intello has taken a curious route to this contest, given his outstanding trainer’s usual template for his previous 7 victories in the Arc. Again, his price is very big for a French Derby winner who has done little wrong. Readers of this thread will know that Leading Light is a favourite of mine and I had him backed in the St Leger when he won impressively. He’s on the ‘Alleged route’ this time, coming back to 12 furlongs after previously going up to 2 miles ( to my dismay). Whether he’s good enough, it’s tough to say. Which leaves the gallant Novellist and the 2 Japanese contenders. Novellist has been campaigned splendidly at the top level and never really run a bad race, garnering a second successive King George for Germany this summer. I admit to wondering about him after his German Derby conqueror Pastorius let the form a little, but I thought he did just enough at Baden last time and runner-up Seismos is no slouch. His Ascot win was a record time on very firm July going but trainer Andi Wohler won’t use soft ground as an excuse, while his ebullient jockey Johnny Murtagh expects to win every race he takes part in - and frequently does! Which brings us to Orfevre and Kizuna. Orfevre was a desperately unlucky loser last year and must hold a terrific chance if he can keep his concentration together while Kizuna has impressed me greatly as well, but it’s fair to say that his jockey Yutake Take has never really got to grips with Longchamps, compared to his mastery elsewhere. Japan definitely deserve a ‘turn’ in this race as they have had 3 seconds and a third in recent times, so let’s just hope their fans aren’t left looking like this at approx 4.20pm (French time) on Sunday!
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