London, Summer 2013

[htmb]

As mentioned in Tod's beautiful Finding the Gardens of London thread, I will be spending a few days in London this summer. I've started this thread to keep from further mangling Tod's wonderful report.

It's been over thirty years since my last visit to London, and I know much has changed. Even then, I dont remember seeing that much of the city when I was there for a week.

I have ordered an Oyster card so I can more easily use public transportation around the city, and I already have a place to stay. I plan to travel to different sections, then walk each area and explore. While I am interested in visiting the National Gallery, British Museum, and the British Library, I also wish to avoid lines and waiting to get into places as much as possible. I may get tickets ahead of time to see a play, or decide to wait and see what I can get for cheap later.

I'd be interested in hearing tips and suggestions regarding favorite places to see from those of you in the know. I'm not a foodie, but would appreciate hearing about little restaurants to get a decent meal at good value (for London anyway). As questions come up, I hope to post them here and see if anyone can help me with answers.

[mich64]

I hope those that have visited or live there will fill your thread with helpful tips and good advice.

[mossie]

One thing I would recommend to visitors is a river cruise. Do at least the Westminister to Tower Bridge trip. I have used these but there are some other options. At Tower Pier you are right at the Tower of London from where you can ride back to Piccadilly via St Pauls and Trafalgar Square on the normal 15 bus. This gives a good bit of sightseeing, especially if you get a seat near the front upstairs, all on your Oyster card. This shot of St Pauls was taken from the front upstairs seat of a bus


www.citycruises.com/city-cruises-sightseeing-prices-timetable.aspx

The other thing is a trip on the London Eye, ownership has changed so it may be a good option to take one of their deals which include other things.
www.londoneye.com/

If you go to St Pauls you can walk across the river on the wobbly bridge to the Tate Modern art gallery.

[htmb]

Mossie, brilliant ideas! I especially like the idea of the river cruise. I also want to wander the St. Paul's area and cross the Millenium Bridge. I don't even recall seeing Westminister on the last visit, and I only floated on the Thames way upriver where it was so narrow it felt like I could almost touch either side from the boat.

Thank you for the great advice, as well as the links and super photo. I will need to give the London Eye some thought since that's one of those places where I might need to wait in line for a bit.

[lola]

We enjoyed Evensong at St. Paul's last trip, and at Westminster Abbey previous times. These are late afternoon religious services, 45 min long or thereabouts, where you sit respectfully and then leave promptly at the end. At St. Paul's, the men's choir files out in procession and stands behind the congregation under the dome, making the notes resonate, before proceding to the choir stalls near the altar. Readings, more celestial singing.

Theater: I like the Globe, as a groundling if you can get near the stage. Superior interpretations. We loved One Man Two Guvnors at the Theatre Royal Haymarket, even from the cheap balcony seats; they're selling tickets through August.

Good value less expensive meals are our middle names. We liked going to different pubs, having a half pint and a snack or light meal. If you're interested, I'll mention my favorites. Euston Rd. is north of Fitzrovia, home of (arguably) the best pubbing. The Coal Hole on the Strand is nice for after Nat'l Gallery and before theater.

One of my favorite meals was lunch at the Middle Temple Hall:
www.middletemplehall.org.uk/food-lunch.html
The hall is magnificent, with a high double hammer beam wooden roof that blessedly survived the Great Fire and firebombing, though the end wall sustained bomb damage during WW2. There's a the musicians' gallery. This is where barristers, judges, various members of the legal profession may eat, plus the occasional outsider. Queen Elizabeth I dined here.



Intricately carved wooden screen. High windows. Full length portraits of Queen Anne, Charles I, James I, Eliz.I.
Four long tables run the length of the hall, with one crosswise on the stage. White gloved waiters. As we enter, the room is ~ 1/3 full, with a civilized murmur. You can order from the carvery or help yourself from various stations. We got the Chef's Special: coconut crusted halibut, watercress and potato soup, bread, salad, coffee for 10.75 GBP. It was delicious, especially the soup. Reserve in advance by email. Jean, the hostess, will take care of you.

Other places to eat: if you like markets at all, go to Borough Mkt on a Thurs or Fri morning. The grilled cheese/raclette stand is great, but lots of temptations of all kinds.
TAS, Turkish food just down from British Museum.
Lupita's, great Mexican food just off the Strand, good pre-theater.
Brown's Covent Garden, also pleasant pre-theater meal.

[htmb]

Oh, this is perfect, Lola! Thank you so much for the tips! I'm sure many of these will work. I'm going to make a master list of suggestions to take with me.

I would love to attend evensong, but might even attend a Sunday morning service somewhere.

Unfortunately, I will be leaving on a Thursday morning so won't be able to make it to those particular markets.

Thank you for the great advice!

[Deleted]

I have passed St. Paul's on just about every trip to London, but I can't recall if I have been inside. Probably not, or I would remember taking pictures. Last August when I was in London, I clearly remember turning around and leaving when I saw the price for visiting Westminster Abbey. I felt that I had seen it enough in ceremonies on television and also in movies not to pay the price they were asking. Then again, I have never even been to see the kings' and queens' tombs in Saint Denis -- I have visited the cathedral, but not the tomb section. (However, I will go before long because I saw when I was there last time that it is free for the unemployed.)

Actually, what I wanted to say here is that my first trip to London was in 1971 and I absolutely loved it. I returned in 1973 and absolutely loved it again (even though it was during the first oil crisis and all of the lights were turned off). But for some inexplicable reason, every time I have returned to London since then, I am hugely disappointed and wonder how it is possible to like the city (even though I always see both likeable and lovable areas in the city). At the same time, every time I return home, it only takes about a month for me to start thinking "I'd like to go to London again." I do not have the slightest idea what causes this. There are a few things that I know I don't really like -- the London Underground seems really cramped and polluted to me; the food options often horrify me. Sausage roll? Who could possibly want to ever eat a sausage roll? But these are ridiculous little details, so it must be something else that I have not yet been able to identify. During my last trip in August, once again I saw things that I loved (the Camden markets) and other things that were pitifully ugly but still loveable in a way (the Hammersmith area where I stayed) -- and yet once again, I heaved a sigh of relief the moment I was sitting in the Eurostar again. About a week later, I was ready to return. Very odd. I'm going to London for a day next month, so that should be an interesting test -- I will either ask myself why I scheduled such a short trip or else I will wonder why I even bothered to come. In any case, London continues to fascinate me, even if I have problems with it.

[htmb]

Well put, Kerouac.

I think I will probably stay away from the inside of most places charging admission, unless I find something I feel is personally worthwhile. There's plenty for me to see that's free and I'm sure I will enjoy looking at the outsides of many buildings.

I'm not sure I would enjoy the Camden Markets. I remember reading your report and thinking "better him than me" though I did enjoy your thread and photos. Large crowds and lots stuff just do not appeal to me at all, BUT this is one I will mull over for awhile (assuming the shops are open every day).

[patricklondon]

htmb, if you've pre-ordered an Oystercard it will no doubt come with the TfL visitor guide, but you might want to have a look at it online and check out the bus map in it, showing the main central London routes in relation to the main attractions. It'll help you to plan a bit, and maybe give you some ideas - and don't underestimate the buses as a way of getting to see more (from the upper deck, of course) while resting your feet.
www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/15101.aspx

For the summer - parks and gardens, of course, but there are lots to choose from. If you walk through Hyde Park from Hyde Park Corner, there's plenty of variety and the chance to see the Household Cavalry out exercising the horses most mid-mornings. Or there's the Queen Mary rose garden in Regent's Park. Or if you happen to be visiting the Museum of London (one of my favourites), drop into Postman's Park (the churchyard of St Botolph's, Aldersgate St, with its Victorian memorial tiles marking acts of self-sacrifice):
www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/green-spaces/city-gardens/visitor-information/Pages/Postman%27s-Park.aspx

Or if you're near the Tower and need a sit-down, St Dunstan's, a garden made from the ruins of a bombed-out church:
www.gardenvisit.com/garden/st_dunstan_in_the_east_church_garden

If you fancy a river trip, then you could take a boat between central London and Greenwich, where the National Maritime Museum is free (and, I believe, the Observatory, though I think you have to pay to have yourself photographed on the Meridian Line), and there's a huge park to walk in with some good views over to Canary Wharf and the Olympic Park. Greenwich also has a small private museum all about fans. You could take the boat one way between London and Greenwich, the Docklands Light Railway the other way, stopping off at the Museum of Docklands (all about life and labour on the river), if that interests you.
www1.rmg.co.uk/
www.thefanmuseum.org.uk/
www.museumoflondon.org.uk/Docklands/

[patricklondon]

PS for kerouac: oddly enough, I've been in Paris for the weekend, and I sometimes have the same dissociated feeling as you do about London. I think it's because I've been here so many times I'm sort of stranded between feeling at home and feeling on holiday. On the one hand, I ought to be seeing and doing all sorts of visitor things (but most of them I've done before, and I have too many memories of August route marches around the Haussmann boulevard side of Paris), on the other hand the places I thought I was starting to feel at home in keep on changing into a more generic blandness as they move more and more upmarket (just like their London equivalents). I think we build ourselves mental pictures of places and what to expect from them that reality is rarely likely to satisfy.

[lugg]

Some great suggestions here , some of which I might use for my next trip , although one of my days will be spent at the Chelsea Flower Show.

In addition maybe have a look at the Victoria and Albert museum to see whether that might appeal , it is one of my favourite museums. ( Art / Design )
www.vam.ac.uk/


Another suggestion for you to explore is Hampton Court. Somewhat out of London but not too far
www.hrp.org.uk/HamptonCourtPalace/

[mossie]

Kerouac, was it not Dr Johnson who said "if a man is tired of London, he is tired of life".

Patrick has some good tips, I had meant to add to mine that, when you get into a Tube station, to ask for a bus map. This is a very useful tool, it shows all the central area bus routes, PLUS, the Tube lines and stations. All on a street map, the normal Tube map is a very clever piece of cartography, but is wildly inaccurate geographically, which can mislead you on orientation. There is nothing worse than ascending from the bowels of London than to find you do not have a clue which direction you need to go.

[bjd]

I must admit I have the same odd feelings about London as Kerouac, although I don't often get the urge to go there for a day.

The first time I went, I spent over 2 months there -- thought it was great and interesting, especially since my comparison point was Toronto. I was also 19, so it's easy to be impressed at that age. I went back on several occasions over the following few years.

Then there was a really, really long gap before I returned for a couple of days in 2006. I went to see St Paul's -- refused to go in because of the ridiculous entry price. I liked the Millenium Bridge, which doesn't wobble any more. I went to the National Gallery and the Portrait Gallery -- the advantage of their being free is that you don't feel you need to spend hours to get your money's worth.

But in general, I am just not impressed with London. Maybe also because I was there in January -- but I just don't feel the need to return. It's all overpriced, I got sick after eating in an Indian restaurant in Soho, it gets dark really early in winter, people are badly dressed, it's so multi-cultural that I might as well be in Toronto.

I'm not "tired of life" but I can think of many places to go that seem more interesting.

[htmb]

This is all extremely helpful. Patrick, thank you so much for your local perspective. I can't wait to have the time to comb through the links you posted. I am interested in visiting the Maritime Museum, so may see if I can work out the details.

And, Lugg, your posts are much appreciated, too. I've actually read through your London report a few times gathering ideas. While I've been to the V&A and to Hampton Court, I remember nothing about the visits. I might see about adding those to my list.

I am delighted with the response you have given my request for information, as well as the interesting dialogue. Not only will your posts help me, they will obviously be helpful to others who find their way to the Port.

[htmb]

A note about Oyster cards: When I ordered my card a few days ago I failed to receive the automatically generated email confirming my order. Following directions posted on the website, I sent an email listing my name, address and date of my order and heard back very quickly from a real person (a plus!) who was able to confirm my purchase.
I should receive my Oyster card within two or three weeks. In hindsight, I should have written down the confirmation number at the time of my order, but I've gotten so conditioned to receiving automatic emails after orders I just didn't think about it. By the time I realized it hadn't come the confirmation web page had been lost.

[htmb]

Mossie, I've gotten so tired of coming out of unfamiliar metro stations and being turned around that I purchased a litte compas to attach to my bag. I'm hoping this will help me navigate more efficienly. I have a compas on my phone, but it's a pain to use.

[lola]

I'd have to flip a coin to decide between London and Paris. I loved London long before setting foot there, from books. I doubt I'll ever get enough of it.

htmb, for a fine, cheap ( a pound or so), line-avoiding alternative to views from the Eye, climb the Monument. Narrow stone steps, 311 of them, iron handrail, peeks out small windows until you reach the top. Exercise, history, views all in one. We had it to ourselves early one day in Jan.

I'll go ahead and admit my motive for attending evensong is partly avoiding the entrance fees at St. Paul's and Westminster. But I'd always go back for the experience.

[lola]

I'd second Patrick's mention of the Museum of London. One of my favorites, too.

[htmb]

Lola, The Monument sounds like an interesting alternative, and I definitely plan to add the Museum of London to my to do list. I've actually never heard of it before.



Am I pronouncing Euston Road correctly as "Houston" without the H (silent E, long U sound)?

[lola]

Sounds good. Like YOU ston. (May I recommend forvo.com for hearing, and also providing, pronunciations? You can also request a specific word.)

[htmb]

Brilliant, thank you!

[tod2]

Yes, that's the correct pronunciation! Actually when English people say it it sounds more like:

Yew- stin, not Yew- ston emphasising the 'oh' sound.

[htmb]

I'm wondering if Patrick, or anyone else, has visited Lambeth Palace. I'm trying to decide if I might appreciate a visit.

[Deleted]

So, you want to do the Lambeth walk?

[htmb]

Is that an invitation to dance?

[patricklondon]

I've never visited inside Lambeth Palace. I've been to the Garden Museum next door.

Since you ask, I've checked what it has to offer, which isn't a great deal - it's a residence and working office most of the time:
www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/pages/visit-lambeth-palace.html

[htmb]

Thank you for the information, Patrick. I will probably cross this one off my list.

[mossie]

Thanks Kerouac for the Lambeth Walk video, brings back the memories of 1948 when this country boy left home to find his fortune in London. ;D ;D ;D
There is a fortune, but it is memories only ;D ;D

[tod2]

Yes, wasn't it lovely to hear that old tune! I adore that old time band sound

[htmb]

I've been watching a lot of London YouTube videos as I gather up more ideas. One video in particular was taken from on top a bus, and I now more fully understand the comment about there being a lot of dull sections between the more interesting spots. While I want to do a lot of walking and exploring, I do hope to avoid the boring streets as much as possible where there's nothing to look at but flat, plain walls of tall buildings.

The way the London Underground system works seems to be very similar to the Washington, DC Metro with which I'm very familiar. I plan to use the Tube a lot, but I'd also like to take buses from time to time so I can better see the view. While I feel comfortable using underground rail, buses always seem more complicated to me. I might just have to get on a few buses and not worry if they take me in unexpected directions.