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Post by anshjain97 on May 4, 2013 16:35:38 GMT
Cheers Deyana. You're right, of course- the type of people who go to malls do not walk- and will most likely drive.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2013 16:54:44 GMT
Even in the good old US of A, I don't think that many people walk to malls.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2013 1:21:45 GMT
nycgirl, a lot of people who visit the temple are from abroad and so some of them keep on wearing their western clothes throughout their visit. Actually some women and most men do wear western clothes in India. The women more so, if they live in the bigger cities however. In the villages they stick to traditional Indian clothes. My book It took me a couple of years to write (it was an on and off thing). It's complete now and (if I may say so), I'm very proud of it and feel it was worth all the effort to make it a reality. My life adventurous? haha... I've had my moments ;D ansh and K, same here in Canada, we drive, not walk to the shops. Although because I like to walk, once in the city, I sometimes park my car and and go by foot instead. But of course there might be different reasons to do it over in India, what do you think? I'm sure that the distance from home to the mall must have something to do with it.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2013 1:29:31 GMT
Just wanted to put up a quick map of the Punjab, just so Amritsar can be located on it: The Golden temple is also known by the names Harmandir Sahib (meaning 'Temple of God'), and Darbar Sahib. It's a beautiful building made of marble and covered in real gold. There is more about it in this link, if anyone is interested: sgpc.net/golden-temple/index.asp It's the center point and 'home' of all Sikhs. But everyone is welcome, from all works of life, regardless of what their religion, background, race, sex or circumstances might be. There are thousands of visitors from all over the world each year. The area is like a huge square, with a lake in the middle and in the middle of the lake stands the Golden Temple, shining in all it's glory. I was curious to know who lived in these rooms. The lovely buildings surround the Temple must surely at least partly occupied by the staff who run it? We wonder around the grounds and then join the line to go inside the temple. Men on one side and women the other side. We enter and many are kneeling down to pray and then after we place a donation down we exit the building. An orderly queue leads us back on the main part of the grounds. The lake or waters surrounding the building are very pleasant to look at, it just sparkles in the sun and if you peer down you can see large fish have made it their home. It all feels so peaceful, it would be easy just to spend the whole day there, pondering about life. Earlier on I mentioned that free accommodation and a meal is offered here at the temple. A donation always goes down well and I heard that only a very minimum amount is expected if a person needs a place to sleep for the night or stay for a while. After looking around a bit more, we go over to a big building where food is being served. We pick up our plates and cups and sit on the floor with everyone else. Soon a couple of young Sikh men come over and serve us. They work fast and the food was simple vegetarian fare but very tasty. On the grounds surrounding the temple, I see many different kinds of people, quite a few Europeans too. I can hear the English accent here and there and other accents that I can't quite identify. I also see quite a few disabled people, with one ailment or another. Quite a few Indian families with young children were also visiting. Later on on the walk back to the car park, we'd see police sectioning off part of the road. And limos driving towards the temple. I had no idea who could be in them, but they must have been important in some way. So it was getting time to drive to our next destination for the day - The Pakistan/Indian border ceremony, which was about an hours drive away. The ceremony takes place at around 4pm and lasts about 2 hours.
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Post by htmb on May 5, 2013 2:45:27 GMT
Your story is quite fascinating, Deyana.
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Post by anshjain97 on May 5, 2013 2:55:45 GMT
Yes, the distance from the mall to the house has something to do with it- coupled with the weather. Besides, walking as a form of transport isn't very common here and most of the mall-going crowd has a car- so they think "we have a car so why should we walk?" But some people come by public transport also. The temple looks really nice.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2013 10:49:11 GMT
The temple does indeed look like a very nice place to visit. I also like the laundry drying on those balconies -- it almost looks like an art installation.
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Post by nycgirl on May 5, 2013 16:27:42 GMT
The Golden Temple is beautiful, and the water surrounding looks remarkably clean.
I also love the shot of the colorful laundry hanging in the windows.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2013 18:28:15 GMT
htmb, thank you. It gets more interesting and sometimes more challenging as time goes on That just about sums it up, ansh methinks. Having a car makes it all too easy to just drive instead of walk, or take other forms of transport, especially in the extreme heat. It's the same in many places really. But I have to say, that I much preferred using public transport, it was not until I became brave enough to do that did I really feel that I was in India truly. It's a whole different experience and if you really want to see the real India, I would say travel as they do. You meet so many interesting people along the way and have experiences that you will otherwise miss out on. And those experiences are what really made the trip special and memorable. K, and nycgirl, I liked the whole feel of being on the temple grounds, it was worth the hassle of all that we had to go through to see it. And in hindsight, it was just being being a sissy really. I did eventually toughen up a bit (Didn't have much choice) ;D
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Post by lugg on May 6, 2013 6:24:30 GMT
Fascinating Deyana. I am really enjoying reading your latest observations, and seeing your photos. I don't think you were a "sissy" I think it just takes some time to find your own way ( one that you are comfortable with) to deal with that type of hassle / touting.
I have to agree with many others who have posted that the Golden temple looks a very nice place to visit.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 16:45:23 GMT
You are right of course, lugg. It takes time to get used to being in such surroundings that are are not familiar. It got easier as time went on and I started to relax a bit more
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 16:46:27 GMT
So what exactly if the 'India/Pakistan border ceremony'? How did it come to be and what is the significance of it? Perhaps better known as the Wagah border closing 'lowering of the flags' ceremony or The Beating Retreat ceremony, this event takes place daily and end just before sunset. I'm going to be lazy and copy and paste what wiki says about it. "This ceremony takes place every evening before sunset at the Wagah border, which as part of the Grand Trunk Road was the only road link between these two countries before the opening of the Aman Setu in Kashmir in 1999. The ceremony starts with a blustering parade by the soldiers from both the sides, and ends up in the perfectly coordinated lowering of the two nations' flags. It is called the beating retreat border ceremony on the international level. One Jawan (infantryman) stands at attention on each side of the gate. As the sun sets, the iron gates at the border are opened and the two flags are lowered simultaneously. The flags are folded and the ceremony ends with a retreat that involves a brusque handshake between soldiers from either side, followed by the closing of the gates again. The spectacle of the ceremony attracts many visitors from both sides of the border, as well as international tourists." However I can add - that there is much more to it than just that. That is a small part of it. The celebrations and patriotic songs and dances go on for at least a couple of hours before the actual ceremony takes place. It is quite something to see and one of the highlights of my trip. This was one stop I am glad I did not overlook. Wagah, named Wahga in Pakistan, is a village through which the controversial Radcliffe Line, the boundary demarcation line dividing India and Pakistan upon the Partition of India, was drawn. The village was divided by independence in 1947. Today, the eastern half of the village remains in the Republic of India while the western half is in Pakistan. So as you can imagine this ceremony and it's significance in just being, brings about many mixed emotions. (and for some), memories of a volatile time. On a personal level my mother (who was an Army Officer's daughter), still remembers the days following the partition between India and Pakistan and of the blood shed and mayhem that occurred because of it. I'm glad the ceremony exists and hope it continues to do so. Relations between India and Pakistan have never been easy, and especially so in recent years with the fight still on for Kashmir and of the dubious terrorists activities that still occur occasionally in India. With fingers pointed directly at Pakistan. In fact after the Taj Hotel in Mumbai was bombed by terrorists from Pakistan in 2008, the ceremony was put on hold. It has since been re-activated and I think that is a good thing. Anything that can bring some kind of peace is always welcome. Because this ceremony is still happening, means, that there is some kind of communication between the two countries and that is a very good thing. We were early, so we sat on a table and waited. Bought some bottled water to keep us cool and just observed what was happening around us. A small bus full of English tourists stopped to one side, we watched in amusement as the kids surrounded them and tried to convince them to buy little booklets, CD's and trinkets, as they had just done to us Eventually it was time for us to enter the official border and (of course) go through security. Men on one side and women on the other. This time my sons' smokes were taken off them (the lighters were thrown in the bin), they were told they could have their cigarettes back on their way out. Some photos of the events at the border. Girls (and women) are invited to step down from their seats and join in the cerebration of India. Loud patriotic and captivating music is played on the speakers and there is a feeling of being glad to be in this place at that moment in time. It feels like we are all part of something much greater than ourselves and greater even than this ceremony. It's kind of hard to explain. For me I felt like I was witnizing something quite historical and significant. Maybe it had something to do with my family and our military history, I'm not sure. There were quite a few tourists in this area, most from India but also from Britain, other parts of Asia ,the US and other Western countries. There were men and women military personal present. The men were tall, very tall. Here are a few photos of the event: Look closely - can you see the armed security guards at the top of the bridge? They were ever vigilant and carried machine guns at the ready. This being the border, and taking into account the history and uneasiness between the two countries it was not surprising and to be expected. The gates: As soon as the gates opened between the two countries, many started to stand up (even though the women soldiers tried to keep them seated), everybody wanted the best shot of the soldiers' exchange that they could get. Unfortunately that meant the view was obstructed for many of us, as Tablets, phones and cameras went up in the air. Here are a few clips of the event. The word "Hindustani", in the song, is another word for India. At the end of the video a few animals that we saw in the street were captured. The dog is the resident stray that my sister feeds. He lives at the back of her house:
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 17:03:36 GMT
This is a super interesting detail that I have never heard of. I have read enough history to know of the huge population shifts back and forth when the countries were split up and I had a Pakistani colleague whose family had to move from their home in India to Karachi.
I would imagine that this ceremony is easier for India which still has a huge variety of religions than for Pakistan where Islam dominates, but I am sure that the population down at "real life" level does not bear much (if any) animosity for their former friends and neighbours. I know that my Pakistani colleague really wanted to visit India to see the places where his parents had lived, but he unfortunately died of a heart attack at age 50 (the same age at which his own father -- a heart surgeon -- had died of a heart attack).
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Post by fumobici on May 7, 2013 23:24:04 GMT
Good stuff deyana, I was waiting to see this. For some reason this fascinates me.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 14:57:30 GMT
Thanks guys I was hoping you'd find it of some interest. I know I did.
Kerouac, that's very sad about your friend passing away (and at such a young age), before he got to see India. I came across many Islamic people during this trip, they were always nice to talk to and friendly. No, I hold no grudges against them, what happened happened, it was not our doing, but of those that went before us. I'm hoping one day those events can be properly laid to rest and left to history. We can but hope.
fumobici, funny thing is I was thinking of you as I wrote that last part, hoping you'd notice it, I thought you might find it interesting.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 14:58:51 GMT
As we exit the the grounds of the border, and start down the road, many large trucks and lorries can be seen lined up. Still and waiting. Raj tells us that these vehicles are waiting to cross the border and go into Pakistan with many different kinds of merchandise. Each day they are stopped here by the military guards, so that the border ceremony and events can take place. What an inconvenience I thought. Maybe another section should be opened up so that the traffic can flow easier from one country to another.. That would certainly help these truckers who are now stuck in line until after sunset. (I have a photo of these trucks all lined up - but I can't locate it right now, I'll add it on here when I come across it later on). On our drive home, Raj points out that there is a line that divides the two countries apart. What you see in the photo below is that. In front of the building is India, behind that is the line and on the other side of which is Pakistan. Apparently security is tight alone this whole border line. He tells us that quite a few people have crossed over to India illegally from Pakistan and if ever caught doing so, the penalties are severe. A closer look: I just had to stop the car to take photos of these goats walking down the street. Unfortunately one of them peed on my slippers before trotting off Saw so many different kinds of mode of transport, carrying just about everyone under the sun: Back to my sister's house again. I notice that this man has put up a make-shift tent of sorts some way behind the house, quite near the straw shack that is still there. I know that there is construction work going on just across from the house, and wondered if he was one of the workers from there? An Indian sunset is big and bright: So our time in the Punjab is just about over. We decide maybe we should carry on with the rest of our journey and venture further afield and see what else there is in India to discover. I had a feeling we were just touching the tip of the ice-burg here (I was right). Although the ice-burg would soon turn into a big blazing sun, that shone down relentlessly and by April would simply get too hot to handle. Before we go, my kids go with my nephew to see a cricket tournament and we attend a wedding, where I meet old friends of mine One I kinda sorta recognized even! He was a man, who was my best friend when we were both kids. He was also my next door neighbor and a distant cousin. We would get up to all sorts and the memories of those were still very clear in my mind, as they were in his. It was real nice meeting again. It had been a good thing that we had come here first, my family had been of great help to me and it was nice to be around familiar faces before heading off into the unknown. Also the blackberry now had a new SIM and we were all set up for calling as well as for the internet. The rates were incredibly cheap, less than a rupee per minute. And for 100 rupees (About 2 dollars) a month, unlimited internet too. Although once we left the Punjab roaming charging were applied, and the further we got from the Punjab the more expensive they got. Early in the morning, my nephew drove us to Barnala, the next town, which was about a 20 minute drive. Here we were introduced to a friend who traveled via train every day or every other day to Delhi. We bought our tickets (They were 90 rupees each)to Delhi on a jump on and jump off section of the train. Otherwise known as your everyday basic, general or third class.
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Post by anshjain97 on May 8, 2013 14:59:00 GMT
There was a massive shift in August 1947- during the Partition. By large, Hindus in now-Pakistan moved to India, while Muslims in now-India went that side- of course- not all, but by large. It was a scary time- lots of robberies in trains near the border as people moved with all their belongings.
Now, many Pakistani Hindus, unable to freely practise their faith, are moving here on long-term visas.
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Post by tod2 on May 8, 2013 17:11:43 GMT
Still with you Deyana and reading all about your adventure more than a holiday destination! I peer intently at each photo and admit it's not half as scary as I thought India to be. You have done extremely well with your camera despite the setback. Looking forward to more!
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 20:45:12 GMT
ansh, thanks for the information. I knew something like had happened, but wasn't sure of the details. Thank you, tod I should have used the other camera I guess, but it's much more bulky (with a big lens and everything), and some of the shots I wanted to take happened at the spur of the moment. It was just easier to whip my little Nikon out of my pocket and shoot away! India does take some getting used to, I won't deny it. Some parts of the trip were rougher than others.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 20:51:08 GMT
Those goats look very dignified going about their way; obviously the disc of the setting sun is spectacular.
The roads seem to be very well maintained even if a lot of the traffic that uses them is still primitive.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 0:33:19 GMT
The roads aren't too bad at all in some areas, although as you can see there are no hard shoulders as such. To slow the traffic down, and as there are no lights or intersections on the country roads, large speed bumps are placed in quite a few areas of the road. This must ruin many a suspension I'm sure and makes riding in the car (or bus) uncomfortable. Later on in the journey we were to travel via rickety bus on one of the most dangerous roads in India. Now that was scary! More about that later on.
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Post by rikita on May 12, 2013 8:34:20 GMT
interesting so far...
about some of the topics discussed - i also noticed the big amounts of plastic garbage when i was in india (though i was only in kerala). one guy told us that some decades ago that garbage would be all shards and similar things. so i guess part of the problems is that these days everything comes in plastic, and i guess it doesn't have reached people's minds that plastic stays there a much longer...
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 13:00:24 GMT
You are quite right, rikita. Plastic is non-degradable and will stay around for years and years. Really it's a simple enough solution. Garbage disposal areas have to be established, and the different kinds of garbage collected and then sorted. The non-degradable stuff is dealt with a different way to the rubbish that will eventually become part of the earth again. Recycling should be upped as well.
Like I said before, it would create many jobs, and deal with a very big problem. I know there are programs out there for building new toilets in rural areas, and I think they are getting somewhere with that, so that's a good thing. The thing is, that with such a great population anything attempted takes longer to process.
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Post by anshjain97 on May 13, 2013 13:14:07 GMT
Bangalore had last year announced a requirement for all residents, backed with fines, to segregate garbage. Of course, many didn't take it seriously and fines weren't implemented (how could they?- there was no way of knowing which garbage came from which house).
One of the landfill areas here ran into issues as nearby villagers didn't like garbage disposal there- don't know what came of it in the end.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 13:23:35 GMT
It's an uphill struggle isn't it, ansh? The going through with placing the fines may make a difference, but like you say, how on earth do they prove whose garbage belong to who?
Finding the right spot and disposing of the garbage in way where is decomposes safely is the way to go. I have all faith that eventually this problem will be dealt with, or at least will improve with time.
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Post by anshjain97 on May 13, 2013 16:10:54 GMT
Another problem is just the lack of civic sense- it's not like many other places where people will actually take much effort. Yes, some people do, but many don't- the govt will need to do a lot to convince them.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 17:52:26 GMT
Yes, it has to start there, ansh. I agree.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 18:04:41 GMT
Civic sense takes time. In most of our countries, we have had to develop it over 500 years. (Ha ha, the U.S. and Canada had it easy because they benefited from past experience of the other countries. )
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 22:54:50 GMT
Good point, Kerouac. And with a population of over a billion people, it is a challenge.
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Post by rikita on May 15, 2013 9:11:40 GMT
well i think another thing is though the excessive use of plastic itself - i think here for some products packaging went down due to protests, though it is still a lot - and that plastic might not lie on the streets, but it still goes somewhere and pollutes something. on a global scale, i think going down with the use of plastic must be part of the solution ...
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