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Post by questa on Oct 13, 2013 5:58:08 GMT
Meanwhile, back in Shiraz... Walked around past the medieval Arg-e Karim Khan fort These walls must have broken any attacker's heart...until cannons were invented. Then to the Mausoleum of Shah-e Cheragh. Here we had to cover up in burqas and no photos inside. Fortunately our burqas were pale floral prints so no-one felt overwhelmed by the rule. We lunched in a tea house in the grounds of the army officers barracks. It was very surprising to see where they sat and chatted when off duty.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2013 10:54:59 GMT
The walls of the fort really are impressive. Are those burqas or bedsheets? Going back to the whole question of the irrational fear and loathing of Iran by most Western countries ever since its Islamic revolution, I am consistently appalled by both the ignorance and the double standards of so many people. We have seen in the photos here the remarkable sophistication of Persian civilisation and absolutely none of the heritage was jettisoned (as it was by the uncouth taleban of Afghanistan or by the Khmer Rouge to a lesser extent in Cambodia). Iran has continued to produce remarkable literature, art and cinema without interruption, revolution or not. Yet Iran has been regularly accused of having evil plans regardings its neighbours and the rest of the world. Even though Iraq was the aggressor in the Iran-Iraq war from 1980 to 1988, the United States and other countries happily supported Saddam Hussein's attack on Iran. France and the Soviet Union provided Iraq with hundreds of millions of dollars worth of weaponry, and the United States provided Iraq with intelligence so that it could make the most effective use of its chemical weapons. In all, about a million and a half people died on both sides. Just to show how ignorant Iraq and its allies were of Iran, they thought that invading Iran and weakening its government would cause the masses to revolt and overthrow the Ayatollah Khomeini (sort of the way Americans thought that the Iraqi or Afghan masses would run into the streets waving American flags when a foreign invading army suddenly appeared in their country to take control). In fact, the Iranians, even opposition forces and including Iranian Arabs, rallied around Khomeini to support the government. 25 years later, the Western world still seems to be inexplicably clueless about Iran, distrusting its motives for obtaining nuclear power or assuming that it will suddenly attack Israel out of the blue. Frankly, I believe that the people of Iran would just like to live in peace, just like the rest of the world. Political rhetoric -- on both sides -- is just useless poison.
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Post by questa on Oct 13, 2013 11:39:16 GMT
Couldn't agree with you more, Kerouac 2. I was told that there wasn't a family in Iran that didn't lose a member in the Iran/Iraq war and that the lack of men for the women to marry after the war had all sorts of ramifications socially. Women were expected to marry and produce children but after the war many remained single and had careers which upset the social norms.
I talked with women while I was there and most were studying. Food technologists, doctors, nurses, business management and accountants are some of the things that I remember
Did you watch fumbici's video? Of course I did not have the contacts like the presenter had, but I heard the same stories.
Wouldn't it be interesting if one country could take another to an international court and sue for slander and libel? A sort of "prove your statements are true" to an international fact-finding team, like the teams that check for WMDs and chemical warfare weapons. They say 'the first victim of war is Truth', but often the mere absence of truth causes the war in the first place.
I don't say Iran is a perfect country, and they don't have some big problems. The Sharia law and its penalties and the position of the Ba'hai religion are 2 that come to mind, but the country is not what the West would have us believe.
That's my 2 cents worth, anyway!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2013 17:38:04 GMT
I've only managed to watch about 10 minutes of the video so far, but I will certainly watch it in its entirety within a day or two. In any case, since Diego Bunuel is French, his "Don't Tell My Mother" series is very well known here.
If you ever get a chance to see it, the movie "No One Knows about Persian Cats" is an excellent representation of youth culture in Tehran, even though the American trailer is very heavy on sensationalist bullshit.
It is fascinating to see how different the British trailer is.
The movie itself is available online, but without subtitles.
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Post by spindrift on Oct 13, 2013 21:04:31 GMT
Although I am certainly not alarmist about Iran and its foreign policies yet I cannot agree with a lot of what Kerouac writes; this country seems to be continuing to develop nuclear weapons (although why shouldn't it, seeing that Israel has them almost next door). I won't comment about Sharia law
I am pleased to have had this opportunity to see questa's excellent pictures and read her commentary on a country to which I will never travel.
I am sure the Iranian people are very friendly and also very goodlooking. Way back in the days of the Shah I had an Iranian boyfriend who lived in London but was due to return to Iran. I often wonder what happened to him.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2013 23:23:17 GMT
I would love to know what makes you think this -- Iran has said over and over again until it is blue in the face that it only wants nuclear power for peaceful purposes. I have no reason to disbelieve them, since even a scumbag like Saddam Hussein was telling the truth when he said that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction. These countries are not completely naive and know very well that anything they do will be totally spied upon/observed/sabotaged so they would have to be really stupid to think they could get away with any incorrect behaviour.
And what on earth would they want nuclear weapons for? It would just give other countries an excuse to attack them and kill most of the population of the country. Even North Korea is not that stupid.
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Post by questa on Oct 14, 2013 3:13:04 GMT
Moving right along...In the cool of the evening people gather in the gardens of the various poets' tombs. This is the mausoleum of the poet Sa'di. There are many stories about him, some not verified, but he lived the life of a constant traveller. His poetry is lovely, if you Google his name there are many examples of it. There are activities for kids and many people just go to touch his tomb. I love the last. Courting couples are provided with these seats so they can keep company, even hold hands, without being able to do anything...er..unseemly
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Post by questa on Oct 14, 2013 3:37:19 GMT
One of the great jewels of Shiraz is the "Pink Mosque" It was built so the ladies of the harem and city could pray there without the distraction of men. Under the floor was a network of large pipes which carried hot air from fires there to grilles set into the tiled floor to keep the ladies warm. The magnificent dome was too large to photo properly, but I took this one lying flat on my back under the central point. How observant are you?If you look at the 2nd pic, look at the doors...the knockers are different. Here are close ups It is not different entrances for genders, and occurs on EVERY door in Iran, right down to little villages. That is a puzzle for you, I'll give you 3 days and see if anyone can give an answer!!!
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Post by mossie on Oct 14, 2013 8:49:42 GMT
Yet another fascinating glimpse of a country of which I knew nothing. love the seats for courting couples, with the vital area well illuminated ;D ;D
As for the politics, I really don't understand. Israel sits there with 200 ? nuclear warheads supplied by the U.S. so what chance would Iran have if it struggles to produce 1.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2013 11:35:43 GMT
It's nice to see some greenery and non-dustiness. Non-dustiness seems to be in short supply in that region of the world.
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Post by questa on Oct 15, 2013 0:59:00 GMT
Hi, Mossie, glad you are enjoying it. I hope you are getting along well. K2, Shiraz was famous for its flower gardens and later I am posting pics of the Eram Garden which was/is famous for a millennium. Now we are off to the Bazar-e Vaqil...who doesn't like browsing in a market. Did I mention I have a love of bright coloured fabrics hanging together? There were some beautiful jewellery shops. There was a mosque attached to the bazar, with a courtyard for people to rest in the shuttered cloisters. Probably had a fountain in the centre once. Well, that is our stroll for the morning, gardens in the afternoon.
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Post by mossie on Oct 15, 2013 14:06:46 GMT
Those fabrics are certainly something else, typical of that part of the world.
It is very noticeable how the men are dressed similarly to men here but the women are dressed as I remember women in Egypt some 60 years ago. Then it was not uncommon to see the man riding on his tired old donkey while the woman trailed behind on a length of string, does that still happen there?
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Post by komsomol on Oct 15, 2013 17:29:09 GMT
Thank you for this amazing report. You have been to some extraordinary places.
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Post by questa on Oct 15, 2013 23:26:24 GMT
> Mossie No string that I saw, but there is a tendency for the man to ride the donkey while the woman walks. Underneath those burqas are beautiful dresses, latest fashions, fitting brand name jeans and tops, mostly on the under 50s. They shop at the malls, not the markets, and all the big names are here.
Jewellery and make-up is well chosen. The "fashion police" days are gone with only extreme exposure of flesh being cautioned. Hijabs are being pushed back with more hair showing. (I'm talking city, here) Of course the older women stick to their ways, but seem to tolerate the younger styles.
Naturally in their homes, or visiting friends, the burqas come off and so they want to look good then.
That is a clue to the door knocker puzzle...any guesses, people?
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Post by questa on Oct 16, 2013 12:11:13 GMT
The poet Hafez is considered the Shakespeare of Persia. A visit to his tomb is like a pilgrimage. The ceiling dome.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 12:47:14 GMT
Since roses are reputed to have originated in Persia, you would think that their cultivation in gardens would be more developed. But I guess that other cultures just latched on to them more, like tulips in the Netherlands.
I really like the scenes of the Iranians just relaxing on holiday and doing tourist stuff.
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Post by questa on Oct 17, 2013 4:29:25 GMT
The city parks had small roses but the more luxuriant ones were in more private places. The kids seem to pick the little ones to put on the tombs. The place for roses is southern Morocco where there is a rose festival about the end of April. Fantastic blooms and kids make rose leis to sell to tourists The
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Post by questa on Oct 17, 2013 11:27:22 GMT
Before leaving Shiraz we visited these gardens. The Eram Garden is one of the most beautiful and monumental gardens of Iran. Its history goes back to the period of the Saljuq Dynasty (A.D.1038-1194).
Since its construction and until the late 18th century, it was predominantly used by the local rulers and Persian monarchs. The garden was finally handed over to Shiraz University in 1963. It is now being used as a botanical garden Two-meter high solid stone plates decorate the external façade of the building six of these plates have inscriptions in beautiful cursive Persian, depicting poems by some of the most famous Persian poets, notably Sa'di, Hafez and Shurideh.On the top of the façade, there are three large and two small crescent-shape tile works, each illustrating an epic or religions event painted on seven-colored titles.The presence of tall and beautiful cypress trees around the garden captures everyone's attention. The pleasant fragrance of flower along with the song of nightingales and the alluring dance of blossoms enchant the visitor.
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Post by fumobici on Oct 17, 2013 14:06:02 GMT
This whole report is astonishing but these gardens are my favorite I think. Gardens have a special allure in arid places and these are magnificent.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2013 17:13:15 GMT
The gardens look quite lush and also a bit unkempt in places (or deliberately wild), which is always nice when one lives in a place with too many carefully manucured parks and gardens.
The tiles on the building are really excellent.
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Post by htmb on Oct 17, 2013 19:33:08 GMT
Yes. I've been admiring the tiles throughout your thread!
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Post by questa on Oct 17, 2013 23:51:21 GMT
Well, no-one has made a guess re the door knockers...
Inside the family home the women remove their all-covering robes as they are only needed in the presence of non-family men.
When a visitor arrives, if it is a woman only she knocks on the smaller knocker and the women inside let her in, dressed as they are.
If a man calls to see someone in the family, he knocks with the larger knocker, which is the signal for the women to grab their robes and cover up before letting him enter.
A bit like having a different ring tone for different people on your phone.
My computer is playing up so I may disappear for a while!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2013 6:01:13 GMT
I have to confess that I cannot even distinguish two knockers in the photo.
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 28, 2013 17:41:25 GMT
Political rhetoric -- on both sides -- is just useless poison. Amen! Questa, apologies for not commenting sooner on this magnificent and illuminating thread. For some reason, I've been having trouble opening this last page completely. Even though the previous two pages have as many wonderful photos, this page is balky for me. I am learning so much here that I'm very embarrassed about my ignorance. But what a pleasure to catch up in this way! The knocker method is pretty clever. Did you notice if there was a standard for each type? Otherwise, it seems that visitors could make a mistake. You are so right about the women being beautiful -- and such friendly, open faces. I can see why they'd want to keep the headscarf as a dual knod to tradition/fashion statement. The architecture and its ornamentation continues to be dazzling and so varied. Absolutely love your pictures of the botanical garden. The age of it -- wow -- although at the season you were there it displayed many new world plants. Thank you so much for this fascinating and complete picture of your visit to Iran. Can't wait to see more.
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Post by questa on Oct 31, 2013 11:09:07 GMT
I now am suffering a new computer, keyboard and mouse, have Windows 7 instead of my faithful XP and have lost most of my bookmarks and addresses as well. Never-the-less I shall push on in Iran as we are moving towards the climax. Now where is photobucket...?
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Post by questa on Nov 1, 2013 5:04:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2013 7:04:49 GMT
The roofed well is remarkable. It's really amazing that cotton is still handled in a tracitional method from centuries ago. Then again, I don't really know what a modern "cotton machine" even looks like.
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Post by mossie on Nov 1, 2013 14:58:11 GMT
Your commentary and pictures continue to amaze and educate me.
What a pity that politics and religion have driven a wedge between our two very different cultures. Nobody gains from these situations unfortunately.
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Post by bjd on Nov 1, 2013 19:25:35 GMT
I just got back from being away and most of the time in a place with a bad computer connection. Any Port is slow to load because of all the photos. I have been looking at your photos with much interest, Questa. Great and interesting. I had always heard that Iran was a great place to visit, other than Tehran with its traffic and pollution. I also like carpets.
I wonder about the headscarves + chadors. I find it difficult to believe that any young women want to wear them because they look better in them. Particularly when it's hot and you see the men in short sleeved shirts and the women in the black robes over their clothes. Speaking of which, I get the impression that in Shiraz there are young women that are not so covered -- is this just an impression?
Were you obliged to cover your heads all the time?
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Post by questa on Nov 1, 2013 23:16:52 GMT
K2...the well is incredible. You walk down the steps to the deep pool of water. As I noted earlier, in some places winter snow is packed up the walls to melt over summer and keep the supply up. Evaporation loss is almost nil as the evaporate just drips back. I feel we should be copying this technology now as our water resources will dwindle as global changes occur.
Mossie...I consider myself as an "anti-wedge" agent. I dwell on what we all have in common and not what separates us. I hope the many Iranian people I chatted with don't consider us as the "great Satan" anymore and I can show here and elsewhere that the ordinary Iranians are friendly and peace seeking as well.
bjd...Thanks for your kind words...carpets coming up soon! We had to have our heads covered "to respect the country's tradition". Older women wore full black burqas but younger ones just headscarves, often with tennis shades on top to shade their eyes. I wore a Lao lightweight cotton scarf called a krama with a cap to shade my face. So long as you had arms and legs covered you didn't need long robes. In the more modernised cities the young women showed a lot of hair with their scarves set back.
Remember they only have to dress like this when in public where non family men are present. Much of the time they are not having to cover up. The men have dress rules too...shirt sleeves to elbow, no singlets, shorts for working only and must reach the knee, otherwise long pants. Even when swimming they wear knee length shorts and T-shirts.
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