travel boards and prejudice

[lagatta]

This bothers me on quite a few boards I peruse. I want to make it clear I'm not referring to "political correctness" - there is no reason to skirt around real problems (such as gang violence or terrorism) as long as we aren't contemptuous of the people facing them in their own community or country, and no sane person wants to be beaten, raped, held at gunpoint, taken for ransom or killed.

But I saw this gem on another website (I'm deleting the name of the poster, because I don't want to pick on an individual - it is a mindset):

Deletedname person 2 days ago

Perugia is nice but keep in mind, it is a university town, The University for Foreigners and University of Perugia are there. It gets very busy, especially on the weekends. Service is not something the restaurants there are famous for. The city also has some immigration problems.
Perhaps, the most fascinating site in Perugia is the remains of a medieval city that are hidden from a plain sight. It is located under the Rocca Paolina fortress.
Other than that, it doesn't have a lot to offer, and you need just a few hours to see Perugia. It is ok as a base but you don't want to spend a lot of time there. Anyway, it seems like you figured it out. Have a good trip.

lagatta less than a minute ago

I love Perugia - "immigration problems", perhaps, but also much more cosmpolitan than most smallish Italian cities. Where there aren't "immigration problems" the drug dealers are Italian. It is a beautiful town with spectacular views.

I'm no longer young but prefer a university town to a dull place with mostly seniors. The students don't frequent the more upscale restaurants; the professors might, though Italians also "eat in" a lot.

----

The "immigration problems" are of course those poor souls who have the unfortunate habit of dying between Africa and Europe, somewhere around Sicily or Malta, or farther west between Ceuta and Gibraltar.

Yes, some of them get sucked into mafioso networks, which are as predatory as we have long known. But an awful lot do shitwork people even in Southern Europe shrink from nowadays. Many restaurant workers are African. Racism means that North Africans (Maghrebis) are more likely to wait tables, as they can pass for Sicilians if their accents are good enough (and many are, thanks to TV, plus they already speak dialectical and standard Arabic, French, often English and or Spanish as well as Berber languages, and Tunisians have always been exposed to Italian). Black Africans are more likely to work in the kitchens.

There was a horrible sex murder in sleepy Perugia a few years ago. It is awful for the young woman victim, her family and friends. Not long ago there was a horrible sex murder in my neighbourhood, about 3 minutes' walk from my place. Unfortunately the young woman victim was a prostitute, so...

[Deleted]

With the European elections coming up next spring, plus various elections in a number of countries (municipal elections in France, for example), all sorts of immigration issues are already rearing their ugly heads, since of course "immigrants" are responsible for nearly all of the problems according to the populists. In a poll this week, the anti-immigrant National Front in France came out as the most popular political party (let's not freak out -- they are not all that popular, but the other political parties in France are so splintered at the moment that they are individually weak).

A lot of the travel boards are obsessed with the Romani gypsies in France, who are accused of just about every crime imaginable, and while, yes, many of them are guilty of various crimes, there are just not enough of them in France to take the rap for every crime that is committed, but you certainly wouldn't know it when you read what it written about them.

[fumobici]

Go look at one of my Perugia threads, the city is wonderful. I could happily spend a year there. There is the odd Magrehbi (or Italian) slinging hashish on the sidestreets in the evening but they will ignore you if you aren't interested and most of the "immigrants" (nobody talks about all the Brits or Canadians in that vein do they) are as lagatta says working hard and adding to the city's vibe while contributing mightily to the mix. And the Rocca Paolina being the highlight? Please. It's worth a trip through as you are taking the main escalator up to the centro and its history is quite interesting but compared to the innumerable amazing sights above ground it is a minor attraction.

Has that ignorant small minded @#$% even bothered to explore this amazing and beautiful little city just *steeped* in history.

I may have to go back this spring and do some more documentation of just how special Perugia is. I've barely just scratched the surface here.

[lagatta]

I haven't been back there since 2006 (I was interpreting there!) and I was enchanted to discover I still knew my way around all the maze of little streets winding up and down the slopes of the very high hill (or little mountain?) Perugia is set on.

One pleasant surprise is that some of those "extracomunotari" (immigrants from outside the EU, but no, not usually used for Aussies, Canadians or US Americans - or Swiss for that matter!) have started up small businesses, making Perugia richer still in interest and diversity.

I loved how Perugia banned the sale of beer and wine IN BOTTLES after 10 pm. Young people can still hang out and drink beer and wine, but it has to be in cans or boxes (a lot of ordinary wine is sold in tetrapac boxes in Italy now, and I found a perfectly acceptable Chardonnay with a local appelation thus).

They didn't ban drinking on the Cathedral steps in the main square, but did away with the loud and potentially dangerous practice of smashing bottles there, which I remembered 20 years earlier.

[bixaorellana]

Huh! There is a certain amount of prejudice displayed on anyport, I'm sorry to say. This is an international forum meant for everyone. We certainly don't have to support things that are wrong, but neither do we have to let slip our negative feelings toward national groups nor religion(s), nor the opposite sex. The usual mild self-censorship we all try to practice in verbal conversation should apply here as well.

[lagatta]

Well, that is a fairly generalised problem on the Internet, whatever the forum.

[bixaorellana]

Oct 12, 2013 23:40:40 GMT kerouac2 said:

A lot of the travel boards are obsessed with the Romani ...

And you always have to wonder in such cases whether those rabbiting on about Gypsies, pit bulls, drug cartels, or whatever has been demonized in the news, have any first-hand experience. More than likely, the comments are cases of "everyone knows".

[fumobici]

Oct 13, 2013 12:34:47 GMT lagatta said:

They didn't ban drinking on the Cathedral steps in the main square, but did away with the loud and potentially dangerous practice of smashing bottles there, which I remembered 20 years earlier.

The last time I was there in Perugia, in 2011 I guess, they were sweeping up broken glass when I strolled past the fontana maggiore next to the duomo in the very early morning. There were a few dodgy looking people after dark in the piazza on the steps on the side of the duomo but there were plenty of police around to keep an eye on things as well. I don't think one could actually get away with much there.

I think the broken glass situation was markedly worse in Zurich's oldtown on weekend mornings. Certainly a lot more unbroken beer bottles, though they were very good about sweeping and cleaning up the streets before people were out and about.

[fumobici]

Oct 13, 2013 17:28:57 GMT bixaorellana said:

Huh! There is a certain amount of prejudice displayed on anyport, I'm sorry to say. This is an international forum meant for everyone. We certainly don't have to support things that are wrong, but neither do we have to let slip our negative feelings toward national groups nor religion(s), nor the opposite sex. The usual mild self-censorship we all try to practice in verbal conversation should apply here as well.

By internet standards we are positively angelic though

[bixaorellana]

You are right about that!

Was/is bottle smashing a tradition in some places?

I've had a roundish scar on the inside of my left calf for well over fifty years. It got hit by a piece of flying glass from a kid smashing bottles on some rocks. Msy dad had to dig the glass out. Dumb kids & drunks don't realize eyes could be lost that way.

[rikita]

i generally ignore other people on the internet because they tend to make me angry ... well not really (the ignoring part), but i used to get into arguments about things a lot, and these days most often i just read and then think what i'd post in reply but don't write it, as i just don't think it will help.