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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2013 11:39:21 GMT
It seems to me that the best way to learn a language is to go and live in the country or place that the language is spoken of by the majority. I speak a little French, but I'd really like to be more fluent in it. And I think the best way to do this is to go and live in Montreal for some time, and attend college there. I have lived in the city before, so kind of know it quite well, but I have no idea what is available regarding college courses or lessons on how to speak and write in French. Some questions - how long would it take and how long would I need to be in Montreal (I'm thinking 6 months to a year). Which are the best courses out there for beginners? Which area of Montreal could be recommended to live in? Recently I have been made aware of a 'camp' that Quebec is offering where people stay and are taught French every day. Would anyone know more about this? This won't be happening just yet, but it is something that I am considering. Maybe Lagatta might be able to help, or anyone really, that might have an idea or would like to throw some suggestions out for me on ponder over.  Thanks in advance. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2013 13:56:48 GMT
So much English is spoken in Montréal that I would recommend going to a more "militant" French speaking town if your main objective is to learn French. The 'camp' sounds like it could be a good idea.
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Post by fumobici on Oct 18, 2013 14:30:33 GMT
I've always been told that the best way is to take a lover who cannot speak your own language well. My German friend Wolfgang calls it the "bedroom dictionary". ;D
Seriously though, immersion is the best although with the internet it is quite possible to get up to speed at least to being able to get past the really difficult starting point where one can at least communicate in a minimally functional way. There is nothing to motivate one to learn like the need to get fed, find a bathroom or navigate on a daily basis, the feedback/reward loop is immediate and direct. Children quickly learn that being able to express one's wishes coherently is a necessary prerequisite for having them met and thus are generally excellent learners. I think anglophones are disadvantaged by the fact that English is so widely understood that it's hard to find places to immerse where people aren't tempted to communicate with you in it, rural areas are actually much better than urban ones for this although Paris might still be linguistically chauvinistic enough to sidestep that pitfall. I also highly recommend Michel Thomas' language courses which focus on grammar rather than vocabulary which is the secret to learning a language and which you can listen to while doing other things not requiring a lot of mental focus and listening to radio or watching movies or video about subjects of great personal interest streaming online. Once you get a grasp of the verbs, tenses, moods and basic structure like word order, the vocabulary actually comes pretty easily.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2013 15:37:28 GMT
Kerouac, I had thought about Quebec City, remember I was there just a couple of years ago? But I guess I still have a need to speak in English if I have to and I know that in Montreal most people do speak English too, plus I am familiar with some of the areas. I'm being a bit of a chicken when it comes to that. The camp does sound like a really good idea. The accommodation is already provided for, and I think the lessons are quite intense. I will have to look more into this. haha.... yes a French lover would be the ideal solution, fumo. Um.. Kerouac, are you available for 6 months to a year soon? ;D I agree, I think it would be a great idea to do some 'homework' and learn what I can of the language before going to Quebec. I need to at least brush up on a few words and phrases before I go. I remember the last time I lived in Montreal, I had a pretty hard time communicating - even doctors offices and government places. The phone would be put down on me many a time. So it was a matter of learning to speak French or getting nowhere. Very inspiring! In hindsight it was probably a good idea that I was not in a more English speaking area of the city, this helped me a great deal in that I had to push myself to learn. Thanks for your thoughts and advice guys. It's much appreciated. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2013 17:13:01 GMT
Québec City is indeed a more militant place, even though the number of tourists cause a lot of people to speak English if they have to.
When I drove north from there, I really found some towns where English seemed to be absolute poison. They went too far, as far as I was concerned, because protecting one's language does not mean completely rejecting the use of any other language.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2013 21:07:37 GMT
That's how it should be. But I know that Quebecois have gone to quite extreme lengths to preserve their language. There are reasons for this. I know that at one time French signs on shops and other places were being replaced by English signs and there was a feeling of 'We will lose our language completely unless we do something' I guess in a way it is understandable. At one time even the far right were against the language and tried to put it down. So there is quite a history there.
So all French schools and everything French was encouraged, and it seems to have worked. My gripe would be that too many French kids come out of High school not speaking hardly a word of English, as was the case with my step-daughter. This didn't help her any. (She now lives in British Columbia and is fluent in both languages).
However I quite like the idea of keeping Quebec as French as possible, it makes for an interesting place.
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Post by lagatta on Oct 18, 2013 23:03:38 GMT
There is a very good intensive French summer school at Université de Montréal, but in terms of day-to-day immersion, you are better off in Québec or regional centres. There are also intensive summer courses at Université Laval in Québec, and Université du Québec in the Saguenay (where Innu
I'd really have a hard time in a relationship with someone without a language in common. Ideally, I suppose, it would be a second or third language for both of us. Saw that a lot when studying in Perugia and Rome, and at seminars in Amsterdam.
Deyana, is there any specific course of study you are interested in, at a Cégep (technical and general college)? Most full-time college students are very young; like lycéens in France. There are many adults who sign up for technical courses of study, including adults who already have a university degree, to qualify for specific fields of work.
Is there a reason you'd rather be at a college than a university?
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Post by htmb on Oct 19, 2013 3:07:20 GMT
I could see how full immersion would be best. I've been working at French off and on for the last five and a half years. I've never been very good at learning other languages and, at my age, picking up a new one is quite difficult. I have recently, however, been able to appreciate the fact that I have actually learned a little bit of the language over time. The moments when I've seen the most jump in learning were when I was forced into situations where I had to find a way to communicate in French, or else. I took a series of classes in Paris a few years ago and the mixture of students was quite interesting on a sociological level. On the last day there was a bit of a blow-out between the seemingly upper class girls from Milan and the lower class Spanish guys. The Argentinians in the group seemed to prefer English to French, and half the class was insulting the other half on the last day. And, of course, everyone was under the age of twenty five except for me and another person. There is a good, free, online system (in many different languages) that was developed by the US government in the 1950's. I can post a link if you are interested. I'm a very visual learner, so it didn't work well for me, but might be helpful for someone who is an auditory learner. Modified to give the link: www.fsi-language-courses.org/Content.phpTextbooks are essential, but there are links to those as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2013 14:53:23 GMT
So much good information, thanks ladies.
Lagatta, I have thought about going to university on and off, but there is always one big thing that gets in the way and that is - TIME. I simply cannot take off 4 years to get a degree. As wonderful as it would be to have those letters after my name, it's not a price I am willing to pay.
But summer school to learn French at a university in Montreal sounds doable. I will definitely be looking into this, thanks for the suggestions. I'm really not worried about doing courses with younger people, I spend my life around the younger crowd anyway, so am used to it. I find some are much more mature than people twice their age, depending on the kind of life they have lived.
htmb, how long were you in Paris studying French? That must have been such an interesting experience. Thanks for the link, I am looking into it, I'm thinking I might as well start to learn however I can by myself before hand, that way it will be easier for me once I am in a French speaking environment.
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Post by patricklondon on Oct 19, 2013 15:06:29 GMT
Bear in mind that Québécois French has a distinctive accent and a fair few differences in vocabulary/idiom from "metropolitan" French, which would be very noticeable in Paris: but I'd assume any reasonable language school in Canada would make that clear, and it wouldn't be an issue till you get to more advanced and idiomatic speech.
Once you get to a reasonable level of comprehension, it might be worth trying to listen to different French radio stations over the internet - and I think there may be some TV stations you could watch online as well - to attune your ears to different accents and styles.
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Post by htmb on Oct 19, 2013 15:27:37 GMT
I was in a Paris for two weeks one summer and attended school for one. Not a great value for my money, but it was one of those things I really wanted to try. I had already been taking once a week classes at home, so it wasn't like I walked into it cold. This was my first alone trip abroad and I knew I would need to have some way to be in more contact with others than just ordinary day-to-day shopping and sightseeing. I'm also someone who needs more to do on a trip than just going around looking at new places. I also spend a lot of time with young people, so that wasn't an issue. However, it would have been nice to have a few more folks in the class who were a bit closer to my own age. Perhaps someone to have a drink with later. I think it was just the nature of that particular class. Maybe the older folks were all in the slower classes  . I attended classes four hours each morning, but also spent two to three additional hours each afternoon reinforcing what I had learned that day and preparing for the next. Side note: As a college sociology major I was fascinated with the collection of people in the class. I assumed the Spanish guys were in some sort of service profession. It was economically essential for them to learn to communicate in French. The Italian girls from Milan seemed to be a wealthier crowd and the major clash was between them and the Spanish. On the last day they shouted insults at each other across the table. I almost considered extending my lessons into the next week to see how things would evolve. I enjoyed sharing a side of the room with a girl from Argentina, and a few other Italians. We often translated into English for each other. There were also people from Norway and Japan. The only other American in the class was a spoiled teenage boy, also from a North Florida city, who thought George Bush the younger was doing a great job and was a fan of a rival college football team. I ignored him after the first day. Enough of my experience ....... I could see how a full immersion summer program could be very beneficial, but I also agree that the more exposure you can have beforehand, the better prepared you will be. There are lots of different methods to try. I think the important thing is to find what works for you and then try to mix it up. |
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Post by htmb on Oct 19, 2013 15:35:08 GMT
I agree with Patrick's radio/TV idea. I've watched a lot of films in French, but the shows I found most helpful were the cheesy talk shows where guests reveal some personal trauma. I found I had a better chance of following the topic if it had a predictable storyline. I was also able to follow the story of a religious fanatic, who used to live in my town, when news of his latest disgusting behavior was reported on French Canadian radio. I've been told watching cartoons helps some people learn a language, too.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2013 19:10:15 GMT
Then again, the French accent of Québec is the most useful for Deyana who lives in Nouveau Brunswick, unless she is planning to permanently relocate to another continent.
But yes, there are lots of interesting French radio stations available online, not to mention all of the French videos that can be seen online as well.
People trying to learn a language have regularly told me that one of the most useful things they have done is to watch a DVD in French (or whatever language they are learning) and to activate the subtitles in the same language (like for the deaf). Even though subtitles never exactly match the spoken words since they are condensed, they do let you catch quite a few words that you missed, especially if you replay the scene.
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Post by lagatta on Oct 20, 2013 2:14:03 GMT
It is also important not to overstress the difference between educated Québécois French and the European varieties (French, Belgian, Swiss). While people in language classes do learn local colloquial French, the classes are in an "international" idiom that is as much of an abstraction as it would be in English.
I interpret here and in Europe, and have to interpret a wide variety of types of French, and of English. Not only native speakers. As for my accents, they shift quite a bit depending on where I am. Not to disguise it, but to be understandable.
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Post by patricklondon on Oct 20, 2013 10:27:50 GMT
Absolutely. Whereas, once you reach a certain point, if you try to translate back from the English subtitles, it's inclined to overheat the brain after a while.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2013 11:48:23 GMT
When I watch an American series or movie dubbed into French, I am generally able to reconstitute some of the original dialogue in my mind, especially if it is about gangsters, who seem to have a rather limited vocabulary.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2013 14:51:57 GMT
The difference between the French spoken in France and the variety in Quebec, is quite noticeable. And I found that in Quebec, with time, words have been added that probably you wouldn't find in France. In a way it reminds me of the slight differences between Canadian English and American English. htmb I would have been tempted to book myself in for another class too, just to see what transpired! I'm taking notes, lots of good advice on here. Thanks everyone |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2013 14:58:35 GMT
There are probably more differences that you can imagine. I saw a Québec movie today (Gabrielle) and, as is almost always the case, parts of it were subtitled. Considering how ferocious the protection of the French language is in Québec, I was surprised that in the film everybody said "pet shop" -- which required a subtitle for the French who would not understand that term since that kind of commerce is called an "animalerie" here.
As for the differences in accent, I have noticed that the journalists on Québec news programmes speak almost completely standard French with only a very slight accent (to our ears).
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Post by patricklondon on Oct 21, 2013 2:52:48 GMT
I was surprised that in the film everybody said "pet shop" -- which required a subtitle for the French who would not understand that term since that kind of commerce is called an "animalerie" here. On which topic, there is a large pet shop in Montreal called:  |
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Post by lagatta on Oct 21, 2013 4:17:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2013 4:43:17 GMT
Well, I knew the official term would not be "pet shop" but that's the only term used in the movie. Just as I presume that "chum" is not the preferred term for friend. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 13:27:14 GMT
It's surprising how many English words get thrown into the mix of other languages. Dotted around here and there. Probably much less so (or not at all) in Paris and France in general I imagine. Something I found quite amusing in Southern India (and particuarly in Goa) was when reading the papers how many times it was printed that "So and so was nabbed by the police''. 'Nabbed' is a word I hardly ever use or hear nowadays, but there it's quite common. Kind of reminded me of Batman and Robin.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2013 19:58:47 GMT
It's looking more real to me.
I've discovered that there are courses in Quebec that are very inexpensive (or free). In fact Quebec City seems like a better bet, a much shorter drive back home too from there, rather than Montreal.
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Post by kerouac2 on Aug 16, 2019 7:17:15 GMT
One of the most confusing things for people learning French is when to place the adjective in front of the noun and when to put it after the noun. I came across this helpful link: How to place French adjectives correctly |
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Post by whatagain on Aug 16, 2019 11:34:54 GMT
I find it complicated to read the rules.
But I have a good tip.
If you hesitate try this. Example.
Tou want to say it is a good idea.
Is it : c'est une bonne idée or c est une idee bonne ?
Just change into :
En voilà une idée qu'elle est bonne !
Works Also for
Une jolie fille or une fille jolie ?
Try :
La meuf qu'est-ce qu'elle est bonne !
Ok i should not contribute when it comes to french 😇😂😅
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. I attended classes four hours each morning, but also spent two to three additional hours each afternoon reinforcing what I had learned that day and preparing for the next.
