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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2014 22:03:54 GMT
Say there's a food that holds mythic status for you - you've heard about it your whole life, but have never tried it. You've read about it, heard your grandmother talking about it wistfully, you catch tantalizing whiffs of it as you pass by a strange restaurant. Or you flip over the page of that old cookbook every time, mumbling, "I'll never taste xxx - it takes three days and spices I've never even heard of, plus where do I get a grouse?" Well, this is the thread to discuss these foods, whether it's fugu or saltwater taffy, squid ink risotto or a ballpark frank in a real ballpark. Still dream about xxx? Perhaps we can urge you into trying it, or conversely, tell you it really tastes like crap. Or have you finally tried something and wondered what the hell the fuss was all about? I'd love to hear all of the successes/disasters/transcendental experiences. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- My own story - this morning I finally made oxtail soup. I've eaten it made commercially, but I wanted to try it because it just seemed so homely. Oxtails are a horrific price in the market, but I finally found a couple of gnarly tail sections on sale for $6.50 and thought I'd give it a try. Well, six hours of simmering with vegetables and stock later, I had two wizened black lumps that yielded nothing but a miserly ounce of meat practically inseparable from gobs of greasy gristle. My husband swore I was cooking fish this morning, so obviously the smell was misleading as well. The stock looks decent and I'll add some barley to it tomorrow and eat it, but I can't see myself ever making oxtail anything ever again.
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Post by questa on Mar 21, 2014 0:28:15 GMT
Lizzy, I wish you were here and I would make oxtail for you...it is yummy in a down to earth way, not for the trendies.(a bit messy to eat)
Tails are cheap here and I get the biggest vertebrae pieces I can, 3 or 4 per person. Roll pieces in plain flour and brown them in oil. Put in slow cooker with bay leaves, mixed herbs (basil, marjoram, oregano and thyme) and add stock. sometimes I have tossed in a sprig of rosemary. Season as you like it and let it cook very, very slowly for hours.
This is where a slow cooker is great...set it up before bed time then next day just add stock and leave it on 'low' for the day. It should not burn or blacken but be very sweet meat just falling off the bones in a rich herby gravy. The gristly pieces become soft and tasty as well (Picking pieces up and eating with fingers is perfectly OK in my circles.)
Root veges are best with this...either steamed before serving ,or better still, added to stew about half way through to mix the flavours.
My friend uses tomato pulp in the stock.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 1:14:04 GMT
Perhaps the pieces were too small, questa. It just seemed nasty.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 6:56:10 GMT
Oxtail is just about the most common item at the African butchers in Paris. Generally you can get a big bag of 2kg for about 10€ in mixed sizes. I put it all in a pot and boil it (quickly turning it down to simmer) for at least 4 hours with a variety of spices (black pepper, red pepper, bay leaves, cumin, coriander...). Once the meat is completely soft and falling off the bone, I turn it off and let it cool down.
Then I pour all of the broth down the drain because it has far too much fat -- and too many spices in it. The fun part is deboning all of the oxtails pieces with my bare hands and putting all of the meat into a big bowl. The bones go in the trash -- and outside -- as quickly as possible. I freeze at least half of the meat in small portions, and I use what I have kept for boeuf bourguignon or just to make meat sauce for pasta. When there is almost none left, sometimes I will add a little of the meat to noodle soup.
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Post by gabriele on Mar 21, 2014 8:09:42 GMT
I first had oxtail as take out from a Chinese place in San Francisco...they didn't sell the usual foods and it looked good, so I got it...and it was. I haven't fixed it much as it can be pricey (and I've found, all too often defrosted from having been frozen)..but since I had liked the Chinese dish, I looked for Chinese recipes and I think they recommended if conerned about freshness, to soak in sale water for a couple hours (this technique is also used when cooking game...too often the person who cuts up the meat doesn't let it hang properly and blood remaining in the meat adds a horrible flavor) and/or adding a little rice vinegar or cooking wine...
I have been able to get some affordable lamb shanks (from Australia) and I cook them like your oxtails, Kerouac and then do the picking the meat from the bone...except I do keep the broth (after removing most of the fat) as it has all the good 'whatever' that bones give to the broth. First dish is a curry and the rest goes into bags...worth the time and work.
The top of my bucket list is a minestrone soup that I loved...of course this was in SF in the 60s...but I found a copy of the recipe in a book about famous SF restaurants, so I bought the book, and one of these cold days (if we ever have a winter in SoCal again..) I will make it. It calls for: either a huge amount, or a small size dish 2 # bARLEY 3 OZ 3 # SPLIT PEAS 5 OZ 3 # DRIED LIMA BEANS 5 OZ 3 # DRIED RED BEANS 5 OZ 2 HEADS CELERY CHOPPED 6 STALKS 1 LG HEAD CURLY GREEK CABBAGE CHOPPED 1/4 SMALL HEAD 2 BUNCHES CHARD CHOPPED 6 LEAVES 3 OR 4 LEEKS CHOPPED 1 LEAK 3 # SALT PORK CHOPPED 5 OZ 4 OR 5 ONIONS CHOPPED 1 GARLIC TO TASTE 1 CLOVE 2 QT TOMATO PUREE 1 CUP PLUS 2 C. SOLID PACK TOMATOES SALT AND PEPPER TO TASTE 2-3 t SALT, 1 t PEPPER DRY SWEET BASIL TO TASTE 2 T ASSORTMENT OF SQUASH, EGGPLANT, SPINACH, ETC CUT INTO SLICES 1 # UNCOOKED MACARONI (RICE OR OTHER PASTE CAN BE SUBSTITUTED FOR OR SUPPLEMENT THE MACARONI).
The soup was started at 6 am every morning and allowed to cook until lunch time...at which time they'd start another batch...fresh grated parmesan or romano...couple slices of Italian brea... Some of the beans were mashed up, the lentils of course became part of the soup base...so it was think and satisfying.
I can't see making the soup with the smaller amount..even though I don't know how much the big recipe makes, and I dn't know enough people I'd want to cook for to come eat it. I suppose I cold freeze it....
All the minestrone soups I've had recently are more broth with some beans...no substance...not the working man's lunch that Mike's served...
I think I'll check the Guardian and see what sort of recipes they have for oxtail...sometimes they're good (the recipes), sometimes....total failures...
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Post by lagatta on Mar 21, 2014 10:25:46 GMT
Is there no way to remove the fat from the oxtail stock? I guess beef fat doesn't necessarily form a neat layer, easy to remove, as poultry fat does.
Something one might like better than oxtail is beef shank - the same part of the animal as in veal osso buco, but obviously each one is much larger in the adult bovine. It also takes many hours of slow cooking.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 10:57:58 GMT
The fat can be removed, but I don't want the stock for two reasons -- 1. I overspice the water to get some extra flavour into the meat, and 2. I have nowhere that I can keep the stock for the future because my freezer is too small.
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Post by Don Cuevas on Mar 21, 2014 10:59:14 GMT
A friend sent me a link to this lamb recipe. My mouth watered. I have had lamb several different ways, but this one looks especially tempting. Seared Lamb With A Smoky Slather.
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Post by Don Cuevas on Mar 21, 2014 11:02:16 GMT
The fat can be removed, but I don't want the stock for two reasons -- 1. I overspice the water to get some extra flavour into the meat, and 2. I have nowhere that I can keep the stock for the future because my freezer is too small. I have made beef and chicken stock several times now, and while the results are good, the work, especially for beef stock, is demanding. I'm not tempted to cook oxtails, but I would try them if someone else wanted to do them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 15:15:18 GMT
Don, that lamb dish is especially "bucket listy". I've never bought a butterflied leg of lamb, simply because of the exorbitant cost. And I'm not fond of lapsang shouchong tea, but I think in this it might be magnificent. Perhaps this summer over the barbecue? Re: oxtails. Mine yielded next to no meat, just gristle. So on a cost/food value ratio, I'm ruling it out again. One other thing that I have slathered many hours of fantasizing and many days preparation on is cassoulet. So much effort tracking down the correct ingredients (not easy in this part of the world) only to find the whole thing has a "sameness" to each mouthful, and that the taste is nothing special to begin with.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 15:32:17 GMT
Yes, you might as well just open a can of pork & beans if you can find a away to neutralise all the sugar. I don't worry about making "correct" cassoulet, just like I don't worry about making "correct" chili. When I want a bean-based dish, the other ingredients are open to infinite variations as far as I am concerned. And yes, I have made oxtail chili. Delicious!
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Post by lagatta on Mar 21, 2014 17:14:09 GMT
I buy baked beans in a tomato sauce, from Bioitalia. Yep, organic and made in Italy, with a fraction of the sugar found in the British and North American types. Some savoury dishes do require a bit of sweet, but I find ordinary tinned baked beans utterly inedible. They hurt my teeth.
I also have a little tin of cassoulet, on sale because the labels in one box of them were damaged by spillage. I couldn't be bothered making it. Even this little tin will provide two tapas servings to be crisped in the oven, and served with some kind of salad. I find a whole dish of that kind of food too heavy; yes, I live in a horrible cold place, but I don't do hard physical work outdoors.
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Post by Don Cuevas on Mar 21, 2014 20:43:43 GMT
We live in a wonderful temperate place, but we don't do any hard physical work either.
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Post by lugg on Mar 22, 2014 18:47:18 GMT
Interesting Lizzy,I feel your pain - all that effort for minimal return. I used to eat oxtail regularly as a child at my maternal grandmothers and my mum made it fairly often too. Usually we had it with cow heels ( which for years I thought was "cow eels") Both are now seen more regularly on trendy restaurant menus as is tripe, which I also ate as a child and for some reason associate with oxtail and cow heels. I have not eaten any of the three for years. The lamb recipe looks lovely Don, I think I will try it one day. It's vaguely similar to one I make which is slow cooked for hours and delicious but instead of lapsang shouchong the recipe uses camomile tea and a cheaper cut of lamb www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/roastshoulderoflambw_89776Last night I had something that was on my bucket list - Samphire; although I had eaten it before, it was just the tiny portion I received in a restaurant. I sautéed it and served with fresh fish in a caper sauce. Texture and taste just great. As I am on my own tonight, I selfishly saved a small amount and have just bought a skate wing to go with it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2014 4:11:42 GMT
Where do you buy samphire, lugg? The greengrocers? I have never heard of cow heels before, and after reading about them, I don't know if I'll be able to put them out my mind.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2014 7:29:43 GMT
Cow heels are another big item at the African butchers, but they do not appeal to me at all. To make sure I was talking about the right thing, I Googled it first but accidentally typed "cow heals" and got a whole page about the benefits of drinking cow urine.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 17:14:16 GMT
We went for dinner the other night in Seattle, and sweetbreads were on offer as an entrée. I chickened out (so to speak) and opted for the cod instead because I didn't want to be stuck with them for my whole meal if they were awful. Now I'm half-regretting my cowardice. Anyone tried them? What are they like?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 19:35:17 GMT
Oh, I absolutely love sweetbreads, but I would imagine they could be awful if not prepared properly. There was a restaurant near my office that sautéed them with mushrooms in a butter sauce and we were all addicted to them. They weren't on the menu every day, so we made sure to go there on a Thursday if that is what we were craving. Here is basically what the dish looked like. 1.media.atelierdeschefs.com/recette-e12126-ris-de-veau-en-persillade-poelee-de-champignons.jpg
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 19:37:32 GMT
I've heard the texture is challenging. Sort of soft?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 20:33:12 GMT
Hard to describe. As an organ item, I would say that it is probably closest to tender liver but a bit spongier. It would be tempted to imagine that it must be sort of like lung (which I have never eaten, nor do I even know if lung is eaten) because it feels a bit "airier" than the solid organs. The closest item I can think of having the same texture is testicles, but you probably don't have much experience with those either, at least in terms of slicing them and chewing them up. To sum it up, if you don't like liver or kidneys, it is unlikely that you would like sweetbreads.
There are a few items -- including certain sausages -- which I like but I have to not think about what is in my mouth to not be somewhat disgusted. Nevertheless, sweetbreads (or testicles) have never been in this category -- I think they taste great. Which reminds me that I have not yet eaten udder, so it should go on my bucket list.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 20:47:46 GMT
The closest item I can think of having the same texture is testicles, but you probably don't have much experience with those either, at least in terms of slicing them and chewing them up. Yes, lights (lungs) are can be mixed into haggis, and the French and Italians eat them, apparently, as well as many Asians. I'm not big on organ meats, especially liver because I can't get over the fact that it's the filter for the blood and can get pretty toxic. I hear kidneys taste like pee and that's not very pleasant. Oh well, I'll remain a wuss, I guess. It was only a few birthdays ago that I had my first raw oyster.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 20:48:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 20:58:45 GMT
I hear kidneys taste like pee and that's not very pleasant. Oh well, I'll remain a wuss, I guess. Kidneys used to sort of taste like pee, but modern processing has eliminated that problem. Then again, most of us have probably never actually tasted pee, so it is more of a psychological concept. And therefore, whether or not they taste like pee is more in your mind than in your mouth.
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Post by questa on Apr 4, 2014 22:55:58 GMT
In Indonesia the heart and lungs are sliced very finely, spiced, and rapidly deep fried, so the meat finishes up looking like potato crisps with salami colouring. Not as fragile as a crisp, a bit chewier and a pleasant spicy meat taste, eaten with steamed rice and green vegetable...usually the water spinach. Sambal to go with it. Most organ meat is done this way even chicken skins which curl up like crackling off pork and are a delicacy if you don't think about the cholesterol.
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Post by Don Cuevas on Apr 5, 2014 17:21:47 GMT
I have often eaten tacos de cabeza but I wasn't sure what part of the head of beef I was eating, other than the by-special-request-only lengua.
I have had menudo on many occasions, with our without pata (cow's foot). I don't ask what those frilly flappy bits are in my bowl. Most of it is pretty tasteless, merely a support for a bunch of chiles, lime, chopped onions and orégano.
I have had sweetbreads only at the Amazonia meat served on swords restaurant in Morelia, Mexico. They were grilled and besides being overcooked to dryness, were over salted. So I can't honestly say I've had sweetbreads.
I had a fried testicular hors d'oeuvre assortment once at a Big Texan type restaurant, in Amarillo, TX. Everything tasted like deep fried breading. A week or so later, I had fried breaded mushrooms, which were far superior.
Good, fresh oysters on the half shell are one of my favorite treats, although terribly expensive. I wait until I am in the U.S. to eat them, due to a horrible two weeks of illness many years ago, after an oyster cocktail eaten in Tuxpan, Veracruz.
I have also had fried pig's intestine, both in a Malaysian restaurant in New Jersey and a Mexican restaurant above Pátzcuaro. I am not fond of that. Some of the weirdest odd bits were in some carnitas surtida; similarly a collection of unidentifiable parts in a murky birria de chivo ( a mistake which I will never repeat.)
On the other hand, I enjoy having tacos de montalayo, which is the Mexican equivalent of haggis: various sheep internal organs, chopped, spiced and baked within a sheep's paunch, a by-product of making barbacoa de borrego.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2014 17:41:24 GMT
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Post by Don Cuevas on Apr 5, 2014 18:04:51 GMT
That does look good, Kerouac2.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2014 19:01:19 GMT
There are very few dishes that do this to me, but this is one of the ones where it is sometimes important to absolutely not think about what you are biting into when you partake of it.
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Post by htmb on Apr 5, 2014 19:25:39 GMT
Though I'm sure I've eaten them fried years ago, I doubt I ever will again after participating in a roundup of young calves and "helping" them to become steers. This one managed to get away. Look only if you dare:
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Post by Don Cuevas on Apr 5, 2014 20:20:09 GMT
I'll bet those calves bawled when you helped them become steers.
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