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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2015 15:37:09 GMT
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Post by htmb on Jan 10, 2015 15:58:39 GMT
On another forum that I frequent, many threads were closed for being "non-travel related" and various other reasons. The deleted posts were made by many who wished to discuss, and try to comprehend, recent events in Paris. On that forum Kerouac posted a link to AnyPort (and possibly to this thread) that remained in place for at least a little while. I'm guessing that many of our recently joined members, as well as visitors over the last few days, have come here as a result of his post. Welcome to you all!
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Post by lagatta on Jan 10, 2015 16:29:03 GMT
I certainly hope so. By the way, I still haven't found out the identity of the people murdered at the kosher superette.
I do think this is relevant to travel; I can clearly see cultural misunderstandings at play here, and not only between the so-called "West" and those constructed as others, which is also a bit odd, as the people involved in the attack were all French, born and raised in France.
Am I allowed to note how angelic the young woman jihadist looks? Can't go by looks...
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Post by bjd on Jan 10, 2015 16:44:29 GMT
I just got home from participating in a march in Toulouse. This is the only picture I could copy from the local paper: Police estimates at 4 pm were of 120,000 people. Not bad for a city with just over 600,000 counting the suburbs. It was a silent march, so people would applaud from time to time. And when we passed in front of a fire station, the firemen had put their trucks outside with lights flashing, they had their shiny helmets on and people applauded even more.
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Post by bjd on Jan 10, 2015 16:48:37 GMT
Just found this too:
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Post by bjd on Jan 10, 2015 16:55:45 GMT
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Post by lagatta on Jan 10, 2015 16:56:48 GMT
That is a HUGE rally for Toulouse!
But we also remember the recent terror attack there, whose victims includes schoolchildren.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2015 18:08:47 GMT
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Post by htmb on Jan 10, 2015 18:10:11 GMT
www.newyorker.comI didn't particularly care for one of the related articles I read, but do like the cover of the next issue.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2015 18:56:03 GMT
The president of Mali (saved from Islamic extremists by French troops last year) and the King and Queen of Jordan are among other personalities who will be participating in the march tomorrow. The United States will be represented by Eric Holder and Canada will be represented by Steven Blaney.
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Post by bjd on Jan 10, 2015 18:58:06 GMT
I was hoping the king of Saudi Arabia would show up -- given that they are responsible for spreading Wahhabi fundamentalism and funding so much of it.
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Post by htmb on Jan 10, 2015 19:16:00 GMT
Kerouac, what time is the march in Paris set to begin?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2015 19:27:06 GMT
It begins at 15:00.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2015 21:07:32 GMT
This was inevitable, but the Charlie Hebdo survivors are beginning to feel uncomfortable with the unanimity of support being given to them now. One detail was the bells of Notre Dame pealing for the victims on Thursday, since Charlie Hebdo was the most anti-clerical, anti-religious publication imaginable. All but one of the lawsuits filed against Charlie Hebdo in the last 20 years was by right wing Catholics. But basically the survivors are irritated that so many people who hated them over the years and who absolutely never supported them when they were in trouble are now taking an opposite stance and pretending that they always felt that way. One of the main surviving cartoonists, Willem (Bernard Holtrop from the Netherlands), has gone so far as to say "we puke on all the people who suddenly say that they are our friends." The survivors are also saying that not a single person supported them when there were thousands of people in the streets of Pakistan a few years ago calling for their death. For this reason, a lot of them will not be attending the march tomorrow.
I myself think that their position is just as harsh as how they were treated before, so maybe they should rise above it and just appreciate that they finally have support from most of the people in France. At the same time, I understand their resentment of something that looks very much like hypocrisy.
But such wounds will take a long time to heal, if ever, and I respect their opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2015 21:54:51 GMT
I certainly hope so. By the way, I still haven't found out the identity of the people murdered at the kosher superette. The names of the victims are: Yoav Hattab, Philippe Braham, Yohan Cohen et François-Michel Saada. One of them was a Tunisian who had recently moved to Paris. Am I allowed to note how angelic the young woman jihadist looks? Can't go by looks... Well, it seems to have been determined that she is now in Syria, having fled France at the beginning of the year. She flew from Madrid to Istanbul on January 2nd, or at least someone using her passport did so.
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Post by htmb on Jan 10, 2015 22:06:51 GMT
One of the brothers had a wife. Any word about her? I would imagine the authorities would, at the least, have a lot of questions to ask her and other family members.
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Post by questa on Jan 10, 2015 22:57:08 GMT
I was living in Lombok (Muslim island next to Bali) when the Bali Bombing occurred. I emailed my friends and in part of that email I wrote
"Remember the Al-Qaeda, Abu Saif, Jemaah Islamyiah etc are to Islam what the Ku-Klux-Klan, and the Inquisition, are to Christianity....a deranged section of the population who hide behind the cover of their religion to carry out unspeakable atrocities."
This was sent on to a surf magazine and spread from there.
It is as true today as in 2002...Islam had its Golden Age but has been corrupted now by the old men of the Wahhabi sect
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2015 23:57:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2015 0:18:51 GMT
A few other people have announced their participation in tomorrow's march: Mahamadou Issoufou, President of Niger, Ali Bongo Ondimba, President of Gabon, Mehdi Jomaa, Prime Minister of Tunisia, Abdallah Bin Zayed, Minister of Foreign Affairs of the U.A.E., Klaus Iohannis, President of Romania, Petro Porochenko, President of Ukraine, Helle Thorning-Schmidt, Prime Minister of Denmark, Ahmet Davutoglu, Prime Minister of Turkey, Mahmoud Abbas, President of Palestine...
In other words, the event is no longer a manifestation of the grief of the citizens and residents of France but a media show that will cost the taxpayers a bundle. Oh, I don't really mind since it provides an occasion to show at least partial global solidarity for a very important symbolic event, but it is very difficult not to see all of these people as parasites sucking a certain amount of glory from an event that does not really concern them.
It will play very well on the world news tomorrow, but not much attention will be paid to ordinary people.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2015 0:55:20 GMT
I would think that the visits from heads of state of countires like Palestine and Turkey would seem to be very important indeed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2015 11:18:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2015 11:52:53 GMT
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Post by bjd on Jan 11, 2015 12:25:50 GMT
Yeah well -- what can anyone say? First she gets into a snit because she wasn't "officially" invited to the Sunday march. Guess what, it's supposed to be apolitical and everyone can join in.
Then, she is going to march in Beaucaire, which elected an FN mayor in the latest elections. At least she will find some supporters there.
Yesterday, although the march was supposed to be apolitical, some guys turned up with NPA (extreme left) flags. One guy opened his but very quickly the people around him told him to put it away, that it wasn't a political demonstration.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Jan 11, 2015 12:42:01 GMT
I am an out and out coward me, I am not a marcher, not an activist, and I avoid controversy like the plague. I don't know if I would find the cartoons and opinions published in Charlie Hebdo offensive because I've never read it. I read Private Eye occasionally here and enjoy satirical lampooning of the establishment like many people do, but have never stood up and made inflammatory comments about anything really. I too respect the opinions of the surviving cartooninst and journalists at Charlie Hebdoand don't have the right to question them, after all they've stuck by their raison d'etre despite very real threats and violence.
The marches are not only about supporting the freedom of expression and the tragic murder of 17 innocent French citicens, I would have thought that there will be people there marching to show that they will not let fundamentalist fanatics affect them or their way of life. (sorry if I'm not expressing myself very well...or stating the obvious)
Questa, your message should be on banners everywhere
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Post by bjd on Jan 11, 2015 13:06:09 GMT
Cheery, I am not usually a marcher either (although I don't mind a bit of controversy ) but felt I had to go yesterday, not only for Charlie Hebdo, which I didn't read, but indeed to show that we have to stand up against fanaticism and murder. Right now I am watching the preparations in Place de la République on the news.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2015 13:59:04 GMT
I would imagine that the security for the march today will be uber heightened and so hope that it remains peaceful without incident. All it takes is one fool to create chaos and goodness knows where it would go from there.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2015 17:12:33 GMT
Probably some of you have been waiting with bated breath, but I need to tell you that I did not attend the demonstration today. I sat with my mother in the nursing home and watched it on television. It is a different kind of solidarity.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2015 17:25:02 GMT
Understandably so Kerouac. I imagine it was/is quite a scene and I personally would have chosen to be close by my loved one(s), rather than be in the chaotic, albeit, well meaning the demonstration that occurred. I haven't looked or seen any of it thus far, but, well imagine there was a tremendous turnout.
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Post by htmb on Jan 11, 2015 17:27:43 GMT
I have been watching both CNN and France24, the best news channels for me. They have shown a multitude of images demonstrating the power of people in solidarity together. Hearing of you, watching from the nursing home alongside your mother, gives us yet another positive and impressive image of the people of France. Quiet, dignified, expressive and brave.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2015 17:50:59 GMT
What was impressive was how interested the orderlies were in what was on TV when they came to the rooms. The two on duty today are among my favourites, and they are both from Mali. They have obviously not forgotten that only France came to save their country from the invasion of Islamic extremists in January 2013 (later joined by the army of Chad). So they were particularly impressed that in today's march, the person to the left of President Hollande was Angela Merkel but the person to his right was Ibrahim Boubacar Keïta, the President of Mali, when it could have been David Cameron or the prime minister of Italy or Spain. Frankly, I was impressed as well, because it showed that Hollande gave priority to a country in grave danger rather than setting up a European photo op. Probably most of the world media will not at all bother to mention who the black man in a hat to the right of François Hollande was.
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