|
|
Post by Jazz on Aug 29, 2015 18:22:05 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by htmb on Aug 29, 2015 19:03:33 GMT
It's a very catchy song, for sure. I was able to go directly to YouTube and find it.
|
|
|
|
Post by htmb on Aug 29, 2015 19:04:02 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Jazz on Aug 29, 2015 19:16:33 GMT
htmb, Thank you posting the video! I think this is what is called an 'earworm'?
|
|
|
|
Post by bjd on Aug 30, 2015 8:06:10 GMT
If this Tony Turner is in trouble for this, what happened to freedom of speech and political expression in Canada?
What about the others on the video? Are they going to be in trouble too?
|
|
|
|
Post by patricklondon on Aug 30, 2015 9:17:41 GMT
I suspect the key point is that he works for the government. Civil servants shouldn't be involved in political activity, especially with an election coming up (they're certainly not supposed to be in this country). My blog | My photos | [URL=http://www.youtube.com /patrickwlondon]My video clips[/URL] "too literate to be spam" |
|
|
|
Post by cheerypeabrain on Aug 30, 2015 10:01:37 GMT
I think that Patricklondon is right....
|
|
|
|
Post by bjd on Aug 30, 2015 14:21:15 GMT
Of course, that is the case in many places, but from what I read in the article linked from the CBC and was told a year ago by a journalist writing on environmental issues in Canada, scientists are not allowed to comment on scientific issues without specific governmental permission. This guy is an environmental scientist -- and Harper's record on the environment is really lousy. So I imagine they would crack down even more.
This said, I don't think being a civil servant should force you to toe the governing party line when it comes to your job, especially when you are not involved in political work but are a scientist.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 16:19:39 GMT
I'm with you on that, bjd.
|
|
|
|
Post by htmb on Aug 30, 2015 17:31:20 GMT
We have the concept of "tenure" in U.S. universities, though many in our government are trying to do away with it. One of the original reasons behind tenure was to protect academics and scientists. I'd be interested to know if this is also a practice used in other countries.
|
|
|
|
Post by fumobici on Aug 30, 2015 17:37:01 GMT
Canada has fallen into darkness, no doubt. Canada's reputation across the US border (and probably the world) has been destroyed by almost a decade of Harper as the PM. When I was a kid, American youth doing their obligatory European backpacking gap experience would often sew Canadian flags on their backpacks to disassociate themselves from the proudly reactionary, militaristic stupidity of American politics. Nowadays I wouldn't be surprised to see Canadian hostelers sewing US flags to distance themselves from the similar proud reactionary institutional stupidity that is the new Canadian normal. Canada in ten years has gone from a nation admired (rightly or wrongly) for its liberal pragmatism and general intelligence and cultural cosmopolitanism, to a nation of small minded, proudly ignorant and downright mean and nasty conservatives that would do deepest Alabama or rural Texas proud. Nobody in the US any longer looks north for commonsense or relatively enlightened cultural or political institutions, those days appear to be a fading, distant memory.
|
|
|
|
Post by fumobici on Aug 30, 2015 17:44:05 GMT
The American First Amendment guaranteeing its citizens the right to freedom of political speech over two hundred years ago is sadly even today remarkable for its enlightened viewpoint. I find the idea that the entire civil servant class is denied this right in other countries shockingly and shamefully retrograde.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 18:31:48 GMT
We have the concept of "tenure" in U.S. universities, though many in our government are trying to do away with it. One of the original reasons behind tenure was to protect academics and scientists. I'd be interested to know if this is also a practice used in other countries. Yes, there is tenure in Canada. This does not extend to an organization like Environment Canada, which is a government agency. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 18:33:31 GMT
Canada has fallen into darkness, no doubt. Canada's reputation across the US border (and probably the world) has been destroyed by almost a decade of Harper as the PM. When I was a kid, American youth doing their obligatory European backpacking gap experience would often sew Canadian flags on their backpacks to disassociate themselves from the proudly reactionary, militaristic stupidity of American politics. Nowadays I wouldn't be surprised to see Canadian hostelers sewing US flags to distance themselves from the similar proud reactionary institutional stupidity that is the new Canadian normal. Canada in ten years has gone from a nation admired (rightly or wrongly) for its liberal pragmatism and general intelligence and cultural cosmopolitanism, to a nation of small minded, proudly ignorant and downright mean and nasty conservatives that would do deepest Alabama or rural Texas proud. Nobody in the US any longer looks north for commonsense or relatively enlightened cultural or political institutions, those days appear to be a fading, distant memory. . Believe me, I won't be sewing a US flag onto my backpack anytime soon. |
|
|
|
Post by patricklondon on Aug 30, 2015 18:35:24 GMT
The American First Amendment guaranteeing its citizens the right to freedom of political speech over two hundred years ago is sadly even today remarkable for its enlightened viewpoint. I find the idea that the entire civil servant class is denied this right in other countries shockingly and shamefully retrograde. Of course they're not denied the right of free speech. The issue is the extent to which they can publicly campaign on a partisan basis when they are paid to be non-partisan professional civil servants. This is about professional ethics. If you disagree that strongly with what the government of the day is doing with your professional advice, you resign. You don't run with the hare and hunt with the hounds. Academic tenure is a different matter. Academics aren't civil servants. My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam" |
|
|
|
Post by bjd on Aug 30, 2015 19:23:21 GMT
Aren't academics civil servants if they work for state owned universities? What is the definition of a civil servant? What about post office workers? Scientists working for an environmental office run by the government?
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 19:33:33 GMT
There are no state-owned universities in Canada; provincial governments created some early universities (i.e. U of Toronto, McMaster), however, today "All major Canadian universities are now publicly funded but maintain institutional autonomy, with the ability to decide on admission, tuition and governance." (Wikipedia)
|
|
|
|
Post by fumobici on Aug 30, 2015 20:11:43 GMT
The American First Amendment guaranteeing its citizens the right to freedom of political speech over two hundred years ago is sadly even today remarkable for its enlightened viewpoint. I find the idea that the entire civil servant class is denied this right in other countries shockingly and shamefully retrograde. Of course they're not denied the right of free speech. The issue is the extent to which they can publicly campaign on a partisan basis when they are paid to be non-partisan professional civil servants. This is about professional ethics. If you disagree that strongly with what the government of the day is doing with your professional advice, you resign. You don't run with the hare and hunt with the hounds. The problem here obviously is what constitutes "publicly campaign[ing] on a partisan basis"? Are civil servants banned from attending political rallies in their free time? Can they put signs endorsing candidates on their lawns? If the song were mocking climate change advocates as progress hating hippies would he have been put under leave and investigation? Would a Facebook re-post of a sharp edged political cartoon be sufficient? If not; then why not? It's all political speech is it not? |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 21:09:58 GMT
And THAT is why our current Prime Minister is under attack and will soon be out on his ass. He is overstepping boundaries that no one even thought of before. Anti-terrorism bills that are so broad-reaching that they allow school kids protesting pipelines to be thrown into jail. Senate scandals. Muzzling of dissent. It's not things we're exactly known for in general.
|
|
|
|
Post by patricklondon on Aug 30, 2015 21:11:26 GMT
The problem here obviously is what constitutes "publicly campaign[ing] on a partisan basis"? Are civil servants banned from attending political rallies in their free time? Can they put signs endorsing candidates on their lawns? If the song were mocking climate change advocates as progress hating hippies would he have been put under leave and investigation? Would a Facebook re-post of a sharp edged political cartoon be sufficient? If not; then why not? It's all political speech is it not? As far as the UK is concerned, it depends on their seniority. At a junior level (office clerks and the like) there are few or no restrictions, but senior civil servants - those who work on policy and advise ministers, basically - may not take part in national political activities, which means they can't do anything that would risk compromising their impartiality, because that's the essence of the job: that's what they accept when they take the career on. They can attend political party meetings to inform themselves if it's relevant to their work, but all the other things you mention would be off limits. And someone in this chap's position would be in trouble for such a song whichever side of an issue it supported: that's for the political party staff to do, not civil servants. Indeed, if a civil servant were to do something like that in support of a government policy, then they would be in just as much trouble (as indeed would the minister concerned) as if they did it in opposition to it - especially in an election period. |
|
|
|
Post by patricklondon on Aug 30, 2015 21:14:21 GMT
Oh, and there are no state-owned universities in this country either. That's the whole point of university status. My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam" |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 21:34:52 GMT
Anyway, I think that video is pretty silly and not at all artful. It has the Raging Grannies in it for goodness' sake. My friends have been creating stuff that is far more incendiary and incisive, but because it's not on the interwebs, no one pays attention.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 22:03:13 GMT
You have to dumb things down to get proper media coverage. Sad but true.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jazz on Aug 30, 2015 23:25:11 GMT
The intention of my thread was not to judge the relative artistic merits of this video. Yes, Harperman, is a tiny affair(?) and the song is certainly not what I consider great music but they had something to say and quite by accident were able to reach out to many people. Good for them. I would be proud if I had achieved that much. I haven’t. I’m concerned with the glaring after effects (suspension and ‘muzzling’), and pleased that at the very least it draws attention to the state of our country today. I agree with Kerouac: 'You have to dumb things down to get proper media coverage. Sad but true.'Dumbing things down' is a phrase I hate, but it is appropriate in this world dominated by Twitter (140 characters) and texts (160 characters) which appear to be the coin of the realm. All of our lives are made up of small moments and how we react, or don’t react. More reaction to more small moments and Canada would not now be facing the dismal prospect of a third Stephen Harper term. Yes, it is very possibleMost recent CBC poll: www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-grenier-polltracker-aug14-1.3190102NDP (New Democratic Party) (Mulcair) 31.9% Conservatives (Harper) 30.1% Liberal (Trudeau) 27% For those who are unaware of the Canadian political system, this comment from the New York Times article is useful, Most Canadians (66% according to most polls) don't like the direction of the country. However two things allow a minority to control our government. We have three major and two minor parties and a first past the post system. So you can take control the country with 34% of the votes. To give Mr. Harper credit where it's due, he is very adept at finding single issue voters and mobilizing them in support of himself. You will never find me attaching an American flag to my beautiful handbag, but Fumobici has an excellent political awareness…far, far more than mine. It deeply depresses me that I respond to his 'Canada has fallen into darkness, no doubt'and I unwillingly agree with him. Even if Harper is defeated, it will take time to recover from the backward slide of his decade of being in power. I want to believe that we can get rid of Harper, but it will be an extremely close race. Everyone needs to try to do something, however small, and that is why this video is so very important. |
|
|
|
Post by bjd on Aug 31, 2015 5:46:09 GMT
I must apologize for saying "state owned universities". Of course, I realize that universities in Canada are provincial entities, since I went to the Unversity of Toronto. I just meant that in contrast to privately funded universities.
I also think it would be good if Canada got rid of the political system they have, which is the British one, with candidates chosen by the party, not by any popular choice. Some people might support most Conservative Party policies, without necessarily wanting Harper, but are stuck with him anyway since he is the head of the party.
Not that American-style money politics (although obviously there is sleaze everywhere) is better. Maybe there is some happy medium?
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 15:22:31 GMT
In case anyone doesn't know it, a terrifying bill was passed in Canada recently. It was ostensibly an anti-terrorism bill (Canada is not much known for its terrorist cells, however), but its real raison d'etre is to stop any sort of organised grassroots opposition to corporate and financial terrorism. www.popularresistance.org/rcmp-planning-mass-arrest-of-indigenous-activists-under-bill-c-51/"The Conservatives’ controversial anti-terror act criminalizes protests that may be seen as interfering with ‘the economic or financial stability of Canada’ and opponents of the bill had long feared that it would be used to stifle opposition to oil pipelines aggressively promoted by Prime Minister Stephen Harper." |
|
|
|
Post by lagatta on Sept 4, 2015 13:02:51 GMT
Yes, the terrorism law is utterly unneccessary to stop any real terrorists; those cases have always been better dealt with through normal police work. Indeed it targets environmentalists and Indigenous groups. And birdwatchers.
Lizzie, don't you think the "folksy" kitschiness of the Harperman video had something to do with its online appeal?
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2015 15:07:20 GMT
Oh yes, I wasn't criticizing its kitchiness, just noting it. God, it's so Canadian though, isn't it?
|
|
|
|
Post by lagatta on Sept 4, 2015 22:54:32 GMT
Well, I'd say not only English - and anglo - Canadian but reflective of a certain Ottawa social justice milieu mentality. And I've worked with those people and liked them, but there is a cultural chasm.
|
|
