|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2015 19:02:27 GMT
This has been a real pet peeve of mine over time. What was once clearly indicative of a particular definition has become over time, increasingly distorted and I'm going to say emphatically at this point, taken advantage of and exploited to the point of being not only misinterpreted but, assimilated erroneously from it's original origin.
Much of it is political and main stream media oriented.
It is as though "they" know what key words are going to sway or persuade, get people's attention.
Maddening!!!
|
|
|
Post by patricklondon on Nov 6, 2015 19:16:50 GMT
|
|
|
Post by chexbres on Nov 6, 2015 20:43:50 GMT
...anything??? Don't keep us all hanging, Casimira!
|
|
|
Post by mossie on Nov 7, 2015 10:08:30 GMT
Well, let me set the ball rolling
An ass to me here in England is a donkey, but in America it has a different meaning.
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Nov 7, 2015 15:33:14 GMT
Good example, Mossie. I think most Americans know the true definition of ass because of the Bible, wherein people seemed to have sat on their asses quite regularly. And really, it has two alternate meanings in the US: ass can be someone who is a jerk, or ass can be the body's posterior. This gives rise to jokes such as: Q -- How do we know that Mary the mother of Jesus nagged her husband? A -- Because it states in the Bible that she rode Joseph's ass all the way to Bethlehem.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2015 17:28:21 GMT
Decimate. It's used as "completely annihilate" these days, whereas it started out meaning "to kill 10%".
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Nov 7, 2015 17:41:38 GMT
Yeah -- they've been misusing that one for quite a while. A more recent mangling is that of "nonplussed", which many people seem to think means "unfazed" -- practically the opposite of its real meaning. Similarly, "bemused" is now often used to mean "somewhat amused".
|
|
|
Post by whatagain on Nov 8, 2015 9:15:10 GMT
Eventuellement in French is being used by some as eventually whilst it means possibly.
|
|
|
Post by patricklondon on Nov 8, 2015 11:41:36 GMT
I'm occasionally exercised by the way some media companies seem to have decided that "language" means "bad language" or swearing, as in parental warning texts on movies and so on. One idiocy I saw warned people that a movie contained "mild language" - as though all of us effers and jeffers were going to have conniptions at the sound of someone saying "Dash it all, Marjorie!", or something similar. Last night, the current Scandi cop drama was preceded by a warning that there would be scenes of a violent nature "and some language" - that's no way to talk about the Swedes! As far as I'm concerned, "language" only means "bad language" in Motherspeak (as in "Language, Timothy!", for those who remember that show). My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam"
|
|
|
Post by breeze on Nov 8, 2015 13:41:16 GMT
Patrick, I can guess at effers, but jeffers?
I like the phrase. Can't think of any circumstances where I could use it, but I'll keep it in mind.
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Nov 8, 2015 15:09:22 GMT
"mild language", "bad language", "some language", etc. is a misuse of the word "language".
Wouldn't mild language be kindly asking someone to put his tea cup on the side board? And bad language would be flouting the rules of grammar, right? Some language would be a foreigner brokenly asking for directions.
|
|
|
Post by chexbres on Nov 8, 2015 19:04:44 GMT
I'd really better not get involved with this thread...you're risking thousands of posts from an irate English major.
|
|
|
Post by onlyMark on Nov 8, 2015 19:20:39 GMT
Didn't know you were in the Army, chexbres.
Moving on from ass right up near the top, don't forget fanny. Biologically close but not so in meaning.
|
|
|
Post by chexbres on Nov 8, 2015 19:27:37 GMT
Double language major, English and French - but I've officially retired from both Armies!
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Nov 8, 2015 19:54:57 GMT
I ranted about this in another thread, but it continues to inflame me: the compulsive misuse of the word "thankfully", as in "Thankfully, no one was hurt." THAT MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.
I believe the similar misuse of the word "hopefully" arose in the '80s: "Hopefully we'll get a tax refund." Sheesh.
And both of those words are used as pointless expostulations:
Q: Are you going to the concert? A: Hopefully! So ............. yes, you will be attending in the hope that you'll hear your favorite song, that you'll find money on the ground, that you'll live to see another day -- what??
Q: Did your visa application come through? A: Thankfully! The visa application, an inanimate object, was filled with gratitude?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2015 19:59:59 GMT
Those two words have changed enough in meaning now that they don't bother me like they used to.
Of course I am still enraged by "less" vs. "fewer."
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Nov 8, 2015 20:07:56 GMT
No they haven't. That kind of witless usage erodes the very fabric of civilization.
I get a kick out of Game of Thrones -- in the midst of tense negotiations, bloody mayhem, etc. one character will sometimes correct another's grammar. Less/fewer has been one of those corrections.
|
|
|
Post by chexbres on Nov 8, 2015 20:25:08 GMT
The grammar and spelling police are quite active on Trip Advisor...suspect multiple wanna-be authors, as well as retired language teachers.
|
|
|
Post by whatagain on Nov 8, 2015 22:17:02 GMT
Have mercy on non native. I am realizing I certainly make these kind of mistakes ... never use fewer for instance (will try)
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2015 22:30:51 GMT
We are indulgent with non natives. At least I am.
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Nov 8, 2015 22:58:48 GMT
Have mercy on non native. I am realizing I certainly make these kind of mistakes ... never use fewer for instance (will try) Oh, you will get not only mercy from me, but complete admiration. English is a tricky language, and you speak it quite well. As a non-native speaker in the country in which I live, I know I step all over the language here quite often, but soldier on regardless.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2015 23:15:16 GMT
Fewer/less can enrage me, too.
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Nov 8, 2015 23:20:39 GMT
As much as "thankfully"? (she said hopefully)
|
|
|
Post by questa on Nov 9, 2015 3:19:50 GMT
While I deplore the use of all the examples listed above, and love the English language with all its quirks and fine distinctions, I have to remember that the use of any language is to allow people to communicate with other.
If the communication between them is understood then that is the 'correct' language for the situation. As about 85% of communication is by non-verbal language - tones, body language and expressions, it would indicate that the actual part played by correct grammar is miniscule.
As the 'correct', if archaic, grammar gradually goes the way of Chaucer and Spenser, only the pedants will mourn its passing.
[ I love playing Devil's Advocate. Here is a cat for your pigeons ]
|
|
|
Post by patricklondon on Nov 9, 2015 11:13:52 GMT
While I deplore the use of all the examples listed above, and love the English language with all its quirks and fine distinctions, I have to remember that the use of any language is to allow people to communicate with other. If the communication between them is understood then that is the 'correct' language for the situation. As about 85% of communication is by non-verbal language - tones, body language and expressions, it would indicate that the actual part played by correct grammar is miniscule. As the 'correct', if archaic, grammar gradually goes the way of Chaucer and Spenser, only the pedants will mourn its passing. [ I love playing Devil's Advocate. Here is a cat for your pigeons ] Absolutely right. But it doesn't mean we should give up on pointing out what might be lost at any given point (e.g., "disinterested" is NOT the same as "uninterested", nor is there another word that conveys the same meaning as I mean by "disinterested" - "impartial" will not do). I call it the Joni Mitchell principle - you don't know what you've got till it's gone.
|
|
|
Post by patricklondon on Nov 9, 2015 11:19:29 GMT
Patrick, I can guess at effers, but jeffers? It's just there for comic emphasis, I think. "mild language", "bad language", "some language", etc. is a misuse of the word "language". Wouldn't mild language be kindly asking someone to put his tea cup on the side board? And bad language would be flouting the rules of grammar, right? Some language would be a foreigner brokenly asking for directions. In my understanding yes, but of course they mean swearing; who decided on the prune-faced motherspeak of just using "language" to mean that, I'd like to know. My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam"
|
|
|
Post by patricklondon on Nov 9, 2015 11:24:07 GMT
I believe the similar misuse of the word "hopefully" arose in the '80s: "Hopefully we'll get a tax refund." It's a "false friend" mistranslation from the German "hoffentlich" (the German for the traditional meaning of "hopeful" and "hopefully" is "hoffnungsvoll"), via American English (possibly via Yiddish somewhere along the route?). My guess is that "thankfully" is just following suit. My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam"
|
|
|
Post by onlyMark on Nov 9, 2015 12:19:15 GMT
The "language" thing reminds me of when forecasters say we will be having some "weather" - usually meaning bad weather, as though we never have weather all the time anyway.
|
|
|
Post by questa on Nov 9, 2015 12:24:22 GMT
I would have loved to study English properly, all I have done is read a lot of everything. Patrick, not a word but a sporting reference. Disinterested...having no skin in the game.
|
|
|
Post by onlyMark on Nov 9, 2015 12:26:52 GMT
|
|