Night / sleeper trains

[Deleted]

Due to high speed trains, these are mostly disappearing in Europe. So many of the routes that I took with my three-month Eurail pass in 1971 no longer exist: Paris-Lisbon, Paris-Rome, Rome-Amsterdam, Stockholm-Narvik, Paris-Copenhagen... Oh well. There were times in my life that I travelled in a real sleeping car and other times when it was a couchette compartment where the seats folded cleverly down or up to create horizontal arrangements when night fell, and then there were times when I spent the night sitting up.

Who else has travelled this way?

I think my first overnight rail trip was on the Crescent Limited that ran from New Orleans to New York City, which was a 33-hour trip. I apparently made that trip the first time when I was 2 years old, but of course I remember nothing. But my family made the trip again when I was 7, and I still remember bits of the trip up to New York. In the Pullman cars, the beds were lengthwise and just separated from the central aisle by curtains. My mother couldn't get me to go to sleep because I was too excited looking out of the window, or sometimes peeking through the curtains to see the cool blue lights that illuminated the corridor at night. Some time in the middle of the night, the train stopped for a few hours. Nobody knew why, but when we started crawling forward again (obviously I should have been asleep but wasn't), there were dozens of freight cars lying on their side down the embankment -- there had been a derailment. In New York, we took an ocean liner to France, but that is a totally different enwonderment.

For some reason, I have absolutely no memory of the return trip although it was obviously by train as well. And the same goes for the trip when I was 11 with a return the following year at age 12. Why does the memory wipe out certain things that we should remember?

So then in 1971, there were those trips that I already mentioned, which I organised merely to save spending a night in a hotel, often overshooting cities to which I would return later. I remember that Paris-Lisbon was about 27 hours.

The very last trip that I made in a sleeping car was with my parents in Kenya. We took the overnight train from Nairobi to Mombasa, and it was spectacular. When I woke up at down, I looked out the window, and there were giraffes walking by!

Just for the record, here are the overnight trains that still exist in Europe (list from 2015).

The Berlin Night Express: Berlin-Malmo, Sweden

Caledonia Sleeper: London-Fort William, London-Inverness, London-Aberdeen, London-Glasgow, London-Edinburgh

City Night Line: Amsterdam-Innsbruck, Amsterdam-Zurich, Hamburg-Zurich, Munich-Hamburg, Berlin-Zurich, Prague-Zurich, Munich-Berlin, Munich-Rome, Munich-Milan, Munich-Venice, Oberhausen-Prague

EuroNight Trains: Vienna-Rome, Vienna-Livorno, Vienna-Venice, Vienna-Milan, Vienna-Hamburg, Vienna-Dusseldorf, Vienna-Zurich, Graz-Zurich, Villach-Zurich, Vienna-Danzig, Vienna-Krakow, Budapest-Bucharest, Cologne-Warsaw, Munich-Budapest, Zagreb-Munich, Berlin-Budapest

Hellas Express: Belgrade-Thessaloniki (reservations can be made only at European rail stations)

Intercites de Nuit: Paris-Nice, Paris-Irun, Paris-Albi, Paris-Savoie, Paris-Briancon, Paris-Portbou, Luxembourg City-Nice, Luxembourg City-Portbou, Strasbourg-Nice, Strasbourg-Portbou

Night Riviera Sleeper: London-Penzance

Paris-Moscow Express: Paris-Moscow

SJ: Gothenburg-Ostersund, Gothenburg-Lulea, Stockholm-Ostersund, Stockholm-Lulea, Malmo-Stockholm

Thello: Paris-Venice, Marseille-Milan

Trenhotel: Madrid-Vigo, Madrid-A Coruna, Barcelona-Vigo, Barcelona-A Coruna, Barcelona-Gijon, Barcelona-Granada, Madrid-Lisbon, Lisbon-Hendaye

[lagatta]

There is no longer Paris-Rome? I took that one many times.

[Deleted]

Since I wrote that, the French national railways have announced that they are discontinuing all of their night routes except for two, starting at the end of June.

The only routes that they will continue to operate are:

Paris-Briançon
Paris-Rodez/Toulouse-Latour-de-Carol

However, they have announced that if any private operator wants to take over the abandoned night routes, they are welcome to do so. This is highly unlikely since at the same time it was pointed out that every passenger on the current night trains costs taxpayers 100 euros of deficit.

Deutsche Bahn has apparently also announced that they are stopping night train services from Germany imminently.

[bjd]

Yes, I heard that report about the removal of night trains yesterday.

I have a hard time sleeping on trains (or planes) so didn't take many. I did Paris-Warsaw (sitting up!) return in 1974 and 1976, Besançon (originating in Paris probably and I caught it in Dijon) - Venice return in 1984, and Nairobi -Mombasa in 2003. Also somewhere in northern Scotland to Cornwall in a sleeping car in 1978, Genoa to Paris (missed the stop at Dijon because we didn't wake in time), Barcelona-Dijon.

[lagatta]

Joni Mitchell: Just like this train:

I'll certainly miss the old Paris-Rome... Does this mean people on long rail journeys have to spend the night in the railway station? I was going to do Amsterdam - Florence rather than fly.

[Deleted]

I did the Paris - Rome in the early 90s. I'd signed on to teach English in Rome and it was the easiest, cheapest way to get there. I shared a sleeper with three men. I remember waking up in the middle of the Alps because we had stopped for some reason, and it was snowing. They took one of the dark men in my compartment away and we never saw him again. Woke up outside of Pisa the next day. Good times!

[Deleted]

Before the Schengen agreement, people often used to get removed from trains and buses at the border.

[fumobici]

Amsterdam-Florence should still be pretty painless, early Thalys to GdN, metro to GdL, TGV to Milan and a couple of hours to Florence. I think you could probably do the whole thing in a day. It's quite a lovely trip.

There were a couple of unfortunate souls who got pulled off the train at Chiasso when I took the Milan-Zurich train a couple of years back. Of course CH isn't a Schengen signatory, but I'm not sure how much longer Schengen will endure in any case with so many refugees pouring into the EU.

[Deleted]

Wrong -- Switzerland joined Schengen in 2008. Now, if you really want to laugh -- Liechtenstein joined Schengen in 2011.

[fumobici]

I'm behind the times aren't I? The border control at the Italian-Swiss border is most un-Schengen like. Oddly, going the other direction, from CH ot IT, I can't even recall stopping at the border.

[Deleted]

It's true that Switzerland is in Schengen, but the surrounding countries have a few issues with Switzerland so there are more spot checks than at other borders. Nevertheless, it is a wonderful development for people who actually have to request visas for the Schengen zone. It was just as annoying as the need to still request a UK visa for most of the same people.

[Don Cuevas]

In 1991, we took a Pullman sleeper train from Ciudad Júarez, México to Zacatecas. It was a 24 hour trip in a coach that had seen better days. Nevertheless, it was fascinating at first to explore our roomette. The toilet didn't work properly, and smelled of wee-wee. The journey soon became tedious, reaching a low point during a two hour sidetrack in the wasteland near Felipe Pescador. A highlight was a stop at the Torreón station, where some cute teenaged girls were enthusiastically seeing off a boy.

The meals aboard were nearly totally forgettable, but I recall one tasted like chicken, other than the fake orangeade the I dubbed "naranjanada" in stead of "naranjada". ("nothing orangeade" as compared to "orangeade".)

In the next roomette, a little boy passed his days crying. (We later got to know the family to a degree.)

We arrived at the Zacatecas station at dusk, and it was the most beautiful, romantic introduction to a city imaginable. The gradual descent down gently winding streets were lit by dragon faroles lamps.


Fuente de los Faroles, Zacatecas

[bixaorellana]

The French government, which owns the national rail operator SNCF, has said sleeper trains are too expensive to run; it has withdrawn financial support and invited bids to run the services. But unless a proposal is received by July 1 all but three of the dozen or so overnight services will be axed. The only remaining Intercités de Nuit will be from Paris to Briancon, Rodez and Latour de Carol, routes deemed socially necessary, according to rail website The Man in Seat Sixty-one. <-- click for full article

[patricklondon]

Night trains were quite the thing for long continental journeys when I was a lad. I took an overnight train back from Arcachon to Paris in 1965, arriving as it was barely light (gosh, was I proud of this photo from the Pont d'Austerlitz at the time):


In 1969 I went overnight to Berlin, stopping at both the internal German borders en route, which was a fairly nerve-wracking experience as the East German border police checked all round for possible escapees, and then passing through West Berlin into the East again, with the bizarre experience of going from the elevated platforms (part in the East, part in the West, and all surrounded by armed guards in the upper walkways) down to East German entry barriers at street level, separated from the West commuters changing from the U-Bahn (West) to the elevated S-Bahn only by wire caging on the staircases, and not a word or glance passing from one side to the other.

In 1971, the very first trip I ever took more or less on spec, without having accommodation organised, I took an overnight train from Paris to Venice, arriving in the early morning to walk straight out from the train on to the Grand Canal. Magical.

Later, I did take a London-Edinburgh sleeper, but that experience and a tryout of the overnight Harwich-Hook ferry confirmed I really cannot sleep on moving transport, no matter how comfortable the sleeping arrangements are.

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[cynthia]

I took a sleeper from a Chicago suburb where my grandmother lived to Syracuse, New York, where my sister lived. I was young and skittish, and so booked a little cabin for myself. In the end, it was good that I had because it was the end of a holiday weekend and the other cars were packed with college kids returning to school and I don't think there was an available seat anywhere. Tons of rowdy, loud, overly excited college kids!

[kerouac2]

Night trains are returning by popular demand and also due to their carbon footprints. Austria and Germany are in the forefront, but there also 4 lines operating in France :

Paris-Briançon (via Gap)
Paris-Nice (via Marseille and Cannes)
Paris-Albi (via Rodez)
Paris-Port Bou (via Toulouse and Perpignan)

Fares start at 29 euros for a couchette.

Meanwhile, it has been determined that the longest train route in the world goes from Lagos, Portugal to Singapore, via Paris, Moscow and Beijing in 19,000 kilometres. However, you need to change trains 13 times.

[onlyMark]

I saw this and it immediately appealed to me - then I wondered if I could drive it instead.

[mickthecactus]

What? The train?

[onlyMark]

Casey Jones, me.

[whatagain]

Great that the thread exists.

My opinion is that the night trains is a splendid concept, that is being reintroduced but the wrong way.

I took the night train Muenchen Wien on Ruesday and Wien Koeln yesterday.
So it wasn't ideal since i already had to take two - comfirtabke - ICE german speed train before boarding at Vienna.

The coaches were dirty and looked like they did in the 50's.
A relatively large gangway, then couchettes. 6 sleeps per compartment in classe 2; 4 in classe 1. The beds - couchettes - are identical.
70 or maybe 80 cms wide. Sheets are not large enough nor long enough to make a proper bed.
The couchettes are 1.85 m long. I kniw, i do 1.835 m.
No power outlets - good thing i had 2 batteries with me.
Lighting dating from 1961.
No separation of males vs females. I travel with a perfect female stranger the way in - just the 2 of us - we were 4 for the way back.
No information. You wake up, the train is of course late, you don't know where you are.
So, on ghe way in i followed my co-sleeper who, purposefully or not, disembarked at Wien Meidling instead of Wien hbf.
Which rurned out to be more convenient for me.
The worst of the worst was lack of douche/shower, only a sink in the toilet.
Meaning as i was traveling for the job, i was smelling the roasted pig upon arrival.
It was quite long, much too long : i needed all in 17 hours to reach my final destination. With the plane it would have taken 5 hours.
Cost : 300 euros. The plane was 600, but i traveled to Vienna for 7.99 euros with Ryanair.

My personal conclusion : no way Mrs Whatagain would do that by lack of comfort, no way Miss whatagain would do it by lack of safety.

I would do it again if :
- i had a sleeper all for myself
- there was a shower somewhere
- the cost went down
- there was digitalzation (and electricity)
- there were more direct trains.

But it was fun.
Once in a while.

[kerouac2]

All of the articles about the return of sleepers have mentioned that all of the trains are old now. I'm not sure when new rolling stock for night trains will be introduced. Apparently Siemens is the only current manufacturer of cars for night trains, and the wait is something like five years.

[patricklondon]

I'm tempted (don't much enjoy flying any more, and then there's the eco-guilt thing). Before Covid, I was looking at the Amsterdam - Innsbruck service for the holidays I took with my brother and sister-in-law, but more recently I've been intrigued by the potential possibility of a service from Brussels that's planned to go through Dresden and Bad Schandau (for walking in the "Saxon Switzerland) to Prague.

But I suspect I shall never sleep well on moving transport (judging by my experience on the Harwich-Hook ferry - comfortable cabin and bed, but the engine noise and even the slightest swell kept waking me up).

So maybe I'd stick to day trains, overnighting en route where necessary: think of it as a land cruise. It's what they did pre-aviation.

Or I might just stay in this country and visit the bits I've never been to.



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[bixaorellana]

Feb 17, 2022 15:38:06 GMT patricklondon said:

But I suspect I shall never sleep well on moving transport ...
Or I might just stay in this country and visit the bits I've never been to.

As a child of Air Force family, I spent much of my young life in some kind of moving transport, including cars, of course. I think I sleep better in an uncomfortable position in a moving vehicle than I do in my own bed.

Your comment about visiting parts of the country in which you live struck a chord. One of the things that attracted me to Mexico is how each part of it seems so different from the others. But over the years familiarity bred contempt. Now, trapped at home by the pandemic, that urge to discover Mexico has returned.

One of my armchair traveling addictions is Paul Lucas, whose youtube videos are mostly associated with airline reviews. But he has many train reports which are fun, factual, and quite watchable due to his excellent narration and camerawork. Here are the overnight train videos.