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Post by lagatta on Jan 15, 2020 15:50:23 GMT
Bixa, that was quite a read!
Sanders said a woman could win back in 1988, so it would have been very strange if he were to go back on that years later.
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Post by Kimby on Jan 15, 2020 16:02:38 GMT
Warren had a good take on it at last night’s debate: The men on this stage have lost a combined ______ elections. The women on this stage have NEVER lost an election!
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Post by casimira on Jan 15, 2020 17:47:26 GMT
Warren had a good take on it at last night’s debate: The men on this stage have lost a combined ______ elections. The women on this stage have NEVER lost an election! A "take" is exactly what that was. And, I trust she calculated it perfectly to try to make herself appear the "better" choice. It smacks of how Hillary sharpened her claws and threw Bernie under the bus when the race tightened in 2016. It's getting ugly out there and as Mich pointed out so poignantly, it's going to alienate voters away from voting for neither of them and give way to you know who getting re-elected.
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Post by whatagain on Jan 15, 2020 18:14:36 GMT
I heard the number 10. And Biden carries his approving war in Iraq. Bernie. Sorry but at 76 one should retire.
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Post by kerouac2 on Jan 15, 2020 18:47:39 GMT
I agree about the age, but as another outsider, I know that my opinion is of no importance. I would love to know more about his followers on Snapchat, Instagram, Twitter and Tiktok. I myself have always despised most of these social media, but I have been proven wrong in terms of their political importance.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jan 15, 2020 18:50:28 GMT
Bixa, that was quite a read! Thanks, LaGatta! He really is hiding nothing and I think he could get so much done, plus does seem to truly be the young people's choice. A "take" is exactly what that was. And, I trust she calculated it perfectly to try to make herself appear the "better" choice. Exactly, Casimira -- well said! Her timing of this "revelation" and zeal in bringing it up in the debate was pretty nasty. That's added to the fact that I think if she were sincere about what she wants for the country she would step back from trying to be president and push to get Sanders elected. Bernie. Sorry but at 76 one should retire. NO -- why?! He's still alive and fiery and very much in command of his faculties. He is a sterling example of if you use it, you don't lose it. Anyway, he's 78.
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Post by Kimby on Jan 15, 2020 23:35:38 GMT
It amazes me that the young people support Bernie and Mayor Pete’s support is mostly older voters who like his military service and overlook the fact that he has a husband.
And we were worried about what to call Bill Clinton if Hillary got elected....
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Post by fumobici on Jan 16, 2020 0:33:37 GMT
Sanders support among young people is almost purely about concrete policies, and less about identity politics checkboxes getting ticked. They've seen what you get when you prioritize the latter over the former: right-wing Republican lite politicians hoping to get the progressive vote for non-policy reasons. Like Mayo Pete.
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Post by questa on Jan 16, 2020 2:12:59 GMT
When Julia Gillard was Australia's first woman Prime Minister there was a puzzle as to what to call her live-in partner. With true Oz irreverence he got called The First Bloke.
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Post by lagatta on Jan 16, 2020 2:36:05 GMT
Luvly. My only live-in partner these days is a wee black cat. Now, like anything, that can change...
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Post by questa on Jan 16, 2020 5:23:24 GMT
Live in partners are very nice...but keep the cat!
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Post by onlyMark on Jan 16, 2020 6:28:23 GMT
Partners come and go, but a cat is for life.
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Post by onlyMark on Jan 16, 2020 6:28:57 GMT
Or until the cat decides differently.
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Post by whatagain on Jan 16, 2020 9:15:55 GMT
I have 2 black cats right now. One is at least 17. Then I have a black cat who wears a white tie and has put her paws in white paint. Lovely actually.
Some people are great at 88 (my uncle is) but I think leaders should be young enough to pay attention to new challenges. Be them technological ecological or social. The world just changes too fast to keep up. Imho. Not even saying anything about health and capability to put in long hours and have the brains working.
Not that any of that matters for the actual president.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jan 16, 2020 17:20:52 GMT
leaders should be young enough to pay attention to new challenges. Be them technological ecological or social. The world just changes too fast to keep up. In the case of Bernie Sanders, he has spent his life trying to drag the United States into keeping up with new challenges. His entire focus is on immediately changing all the unaddressed crap that keeps the US from the being the great country that it claims to be.
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Post by Kimby on Jan 16, 2020 18:35:47 GMT
If the Dems go with Bernie, they’d certainly better hope the young people turn out in droves to vote for him, because he won’t get ANY disaffected GOPpers and not enough Independents to vote for him to take the reign away from Mad King Donald.
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Post by fumobici on Jan 16, 2020 19:02:39 GMT
If the Dems go with Bernie, they’d certainly better hope the young people turn out in droves to vote for him, because he won’t get ANY disaffected GOPpers and not enough Independents to vote for him to take the reign away from Mad King Donald. The actual data say otherwise. Sanders destroys Trump in almost every H2H poll that has been published. See here: www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-6250.html Trump won't be easy to beat, but Sanders has the best chance among the Dem field in my opinion.
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Post by Kimby on Jan 16, 2020 20:52:06 GMT
If enough young voters actually turn out on Election Day...
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Post by Kimby on Jan 16, 2020 20:56:48 GMT
AND, he’d be 86 at the end of his 2nd term, so he needs to be open about being willing to step down if physical and mental exams indicate he’s getting old.
So his VP pick is VERY important as she’s likely to be the 47th POTUS!
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Post by lagatta on Jan 19, 2020 18:05:44 GMT
Well of course the VP should be both younger and a woman. Some racial diversity would also be a plus, but content should come before all else.
Warren and Sanders both represent New England states; would that be a problem? Yes I know that Mass. is very different from Vt; one has an important major city, the other has no large cities at all and is largely rural (we are the closest major city to Burlington by far).
I do find it hard to believe that Sanders would have told Warren so recently that a woman couldn't become president so recently when he is on camera saying the opposite in 1988, and added that Clinton actually won the election (in terms of popular vote) by a strong margin in 2016. I'm sure there must be several people in the US who also do.
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Post by bjd on Jan 19, 2020 18:53:19 GMT
As much as I think Trump is a complete disaster not only for the States but for the world, I think those who think Bernie Sanders will be elected are deluding themselves. It just takes a smear campaign about his "socialist" ideas, about healthcare for all, about free tuition for students by Republican or more moderate Democrats to kill his chances. Not to mention his age and recent heart problem.
Thinking that Sanders would be elected and immediately everything would change for the better is delusion. He would face the same obstruction in Congress as Obama did, or even more if he tried to reduce the power of pharmaceutical companies,the weapons industry, the financial industry.
And being dependent on young voters turning out in droves to support him. Looking at previous elections, Americans don't vote much -- other than people like the diehards who vote for Trump. You can post as many polls as you like showing Sanders beating Trump -- polls are just a picture of what a few people say in answer to specific questions and have been known to be wrong.
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Post by fumobici on Jan 19, 2020 19:53:14 GMT
As much as I think Trump is a complete disaster not only for the States but for the world, I think those who think Bernie Sanders will be elected are deluding themselves. It just takes a smear campaign about his "socialist" ideas, about healthcare for all, about free tuition for students by Republican or more moderate Democrats to kill his chances. Not to mention his age and recent heart problem. Thinking that Sanders would be elected and immediately everything would change for the better is delusion. He would face the same obstruction in Congress as Obama did, or even more if he tried to reduce the power of pharmaceutical companies,the weapons industry, the financial industry. And being dependent on young voters turning out in droves to support him. Looking at previous elections, Americans don't vote much -- other than people like the diehards who vote for Trump. You can post as many polls as you like showing Sanders beating Trump -- polls are just a picture of what a few people say in answer to specific questions and have been known to be wrong. The cool thing is that we will know the answer in less than a year.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jan 19, 2020 20:08:53 GMT
The smear campaign is already out there, as it was in 2016. Not everyone buys into ageist stereotypes. No one thinks that getting Sanders into the presidency would immediately change things. (I believe Fumobici already acknowledged that in a previous post.) "Looking at previous elections" ... in all the presidential elections from 2004 to 2016, over 50% of voters turn out.
In my opinion, Bernie's biggest drawback consists of the those timid registered Democrat voters who buy into all the shit about "electabilty", likability, etc. and the apparently clueless DNC whose arrogant machinations gave us H.Clinton as a candidate in 2016. Even so, let's not forget that she won the popular vote.
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Post by bjd on Jan 20, 2020 7:36:28 GMT
I recently read somewhere (NY Review of Books?) that it takes many more votes for Democrats to get a seat than for Republicans, given gerrymandering, voter suppression in some areas, etc. I don't remember the exact numbers but it was quite striking. Also the fact that in the senate, lightly populated rural states get as many reps as heavily-populated coastal states with urban areas that tend to be Democratic.
How much influence does the DNC have on the choice of candidate? Do the primaries not count for anything? This is a real question.
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Post by Kimby on Jan 20, 2020 17:00:40 GMT
The Democrats use “superdelegates” to add to the delegate vote count. That is how Hillary was selected over Bernie.
The GOP doesn’t use superdelegates. That is how the primary vote for Trump was not over-ridden by people with more sense.
(Google “superdelegates” for more info.)
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Post by fumobici on Jan 21, 2020 15:42:45 GMT
Hillary Clinton on Sanders in today's NYT: “Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done.” "Nobody likes him" "Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) remains Americans' most popular senator, while departing Arizona Sen. Jeff Flake ® is the least popular member of Congress's upper chamber. A Morning Consult poll released Thursday found that Sanders enjoys the support of 64 percent of voters in his state. The number is highest level recorded among any sitting senator and places him in the top spot for the 11th poll in a row, according to Morning Consult's pollsters. Just 28 percent of Vermont voters disapproved of the job the senator is doing, according to the poll. " thehill.com/homenews/senate/424806-poll-sanders-most-popular-senator-flake-least"he got nothing done" "Claim: "Bernie Sanders passed more roll call amendments in a Republican Congress than any other member." Claimed by: Bernie Sanders Fact check by PolitiFact: True" www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/24/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-was-roll-call-amendment-king-1995-2/Bernie did 39 rallies for her in 2016. What an ungrateful, horrible, bitter, lying woman Hillary Clinton is. God I'm glad I never voted for her.
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Post by Kimby on Jan 21, 2020 15:55:41 GMT
Whatever else is going on, she knows that if Bernie is the nominee, Trump wins re-election.
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Post by fumobici on Jan 21, 2020 15:58:47 GMT
Whatever else is going on, she knows that if Bernie is the nominee, Trump wins re-election. She was the main reason Trump got elected in the first place! She and her supporters need to shut it about Bernie's "electability", they have a lurid and recent record of being disastrously wrong.
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Post by kerouac2 on Jan 21, 2020 16:23:15 GMT
If Hillary could lose the election with 3 million more votes than Trump, I have to admit that I do not imagine a snowball's chance in hell of Bernie doing better. It is a tragedy, but that is pretty much all I can say about the situation.
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Post by fumobici on Jan 22, 2020 21:12:40 GMT
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