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Post by bjd on Feb 29, 2020 17:00:40 GMT
Sanders also claims he’s just trying to import the Scandinavian model, which is believable if you know nothing about Scandinavia or what Sanders is proposing. Those countries do have generous welfare states, but they can afford them because they understand how free market capitalism works, with fewer regulations on business creation and free trade.
Brooks forgot to mention the high taxes in Scandinavian countries. It's definitely not "free market capitalism" as understood in the States.
From where I sit, the problem is that Trump and the Republicans have pulled so far to the populist, evangelical, right that a centrist liberal democrat will just look rather wishy-washy.
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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 29, 2020 17:21:39 GMT
... the high taxes in Scandinavian countries. It's definitely not "free market capitalism" as understood in the States. High taxes, yes, but look what they get in return. Do you have any idea what people in the US pay to the insurance mafia for medical care? And they only get something for those obscene premiums if they get sick. Also, the high taxes in Scandinavian countries pay for other social safety net things, not just medical care. For what it's worth, the Scandinavian countries consistently rank far higher on the World Happiness Report than the US does. Centrist liberal (usually only "liberal" in the sense of not being crazed conservatives) Democrats are wishy-washy.
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Post by bjd on Feb 29, 2020 17:24:24 GMT
I know, Bixa. I was just mentioning that Brooks is not correct with his description of Scandinavian countries as free market capitalist countries.
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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 29, 2020 17:34:23 GMT
Sorry. I realize you know that, but the fact that many people in the US space out their insurance premiums while ranting about taxes is a particular switch of mine.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 2, 2020 0:52:04 GMT
Mayor Pete is dropping out (“suspending his campaign”). This is good news for Joe Biden. Especially if Elizabeth Warren stays in the race, splitting the “free stuff” voters.
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Post by lagatta on Mar 2, 2020 3:04:23 GMT
Oh dear, a lovely dose of the Red Scare from someone in a benighted country with no universal healthcare. There is nothing in Bernie's platform that doesn't exist in the UK, Canada or many European countries that yes, have capitalist economies but also a minimal assurance for people not to drown in debt because they fall ill, or have to stay in exploitative jobs to have some semblance of health insurance. The Soviet Bloc hasn't existed from 1989 - this is ridiculous.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 2, 2020 3:33:20 GMT
I was merely reporting the news, not advocating one way or another. Americans are so backward and superstitious now, it’s embarrassing. I don’t get to vote until June. It’ll be all over by then.
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Post by fumobici on Mar 2, 2020 16:35:45 GMT
The "free stuff" locution is commonly a dog whistle for disparaging any program helping poor, minority, or disadvantaged people. The people bemoaning people getting "free stuff" never object to rich white people getting free stuff as they do all the time (see QE and bailouts post GFC).
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 2, 2020 17:47:12 GMT
There is nothing in Bernie's platform that doesn't exist in the UK, Canada or many European countries that yes, have capitalist economies but also a minimal assurance for people not to drown in debt because they fall ill, or have to stay in exploitative jobs to have some semblance of health insurance. Exactly, LaGatta, and a perfect summation! Of course you're right, Fumobici, but what is so infuriating about those "free stuff" bemoaners is how they can't see that a) giving others a leg up makes for a better economy and national culture; and b) if they would vote for some of the dreaded "socialist" platforms, they themselves, as the put-upon middle class, would benefit hugely.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 2, 2020 17:58:18 GMT
I put “free stuff” in quotes not because I’m against it, but because it’s one of those things along with “socialism” that will be used against some candidates by the Trumpers.
I KNOW all this stuff works in other countries. Unfortunately, it’s USAnians who will re-elect Trump if we don’t take the American electorate into consideration.
Let’s get rid of the existential threat first. We can go for the gravy in 2024.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 2, 2020 18:00:42 GMT
And I don’t know what lagatta and fumobici and bixaorellana’s neighbors are like, but living in a red state, I have plenty of opportunities to interact with neighbors who either support Trump, or despise Bernie, or both.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 2, 2020 18:09:07 GMT
People are fundamentally conservative, even in social democracies. By this I mean they always want to keep what they already know rather than risking the "unknown." I understand the feeling, which means that a lot of education still needs to be done before attempting to get people to change. But since education is in the hands of biased people, things will not change any time soon.
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Post by htmb on Mar 2, 2020 19:27:02 GMT
Klobuchar is now out.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 2, 2020 19:32:55 GMT
So, they are rolling out the red carpet for Biden?
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Post by htmb on Mar 2, 2020 19:57:36 GMT
Some are.
Bloomberg seems to think he’ll do well in the March 17 Florida vote. I’d be surprised if he stayed in that long. I guess how he fares tomorrow will be a factor.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 2, 2020 20:18:56 GMT
People have made the calculation: what will it take to get Trump out?
Pete and Amy are taking one for the team.
Plus they’ll get plum cabinet positions if Uncle Joe wins, and are young enough to be viable in 2024 and 2028 and beyond.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 2, 2020 20:40:17 GMT
One of them might even get on the ticket. Speaking of which, I have been wondering, who would be on Bernie's ticket?
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Post by Kimby on Mar 2, 2020 20:47:58 GMT
Is there room on his ticket for another ego?
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 2, 2020 20:50:12 GMT
Angela Davis must be about the same age and would appeal to the darker voters who are missing from his electorate. Gus Hall is no longer available.
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Post by lagatta on Mar 3, 2020 0:04:38 GMT
Bernie needs a running mate a generation younger. Unfortunately AOC is two generations younger, and even at 30, she is too "young" to be President, thus vice-president. I'd love to see a young (but old enough to be educated and have life experience) woman of colour as his running mate. She slaughtered Trump, Pence and Cruz on public health. Having the president or other political leader drop dead is a legitimate fear (though Bernie is in remarkable health), but that is why there is a vice in the US system. Bixa, don't know a lot about other presidential systems - in Italy, everything is in flux. Even if Pete were elected President he could die in office (Pete, certainly not wishing you that!)
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Post by fumobici on Mar 3, 2020 15:40:06 GMT
My gut feeling is that the only viable candidates after today's primaries will be down to Sanders and Biden. The others will just be there to act as spoilers and to thwart the will of the voters to produce a brokered convention where a winner can be worked out in secret in what used to be called smoke filled rooms filled with big donors and party apparatchik. The result of a brokered primary where the will of the voters is thwarted and ignored is likely to be Trump's re-election.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 3, 2020 15:45:31 GMT
Vote Blue No Matter Who.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 3, 2020 16:03:15 GMT
We need instant run-off voting.
40% of California voters had already voted before the big events of the past week. California will award over 400 delegates after today’s primary.
Only a few states allow you to “spoil” your first ballot and re-vote if your candidate drops out. (Montana is one.). And doing that requires a ton of extra effort on each voter’s part.
Primary votes are largely meaningless, they capture a moment in time. In a constantly shifting landscape.
We should have a National Primary. Or at most a series of regional primaries. Iowa and New Hampshire are not “bellwethers“. They are spoilers.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 3, 2020 16:57:04 GMT
I certainly agree that the current system is totally ridiculous for a variety of reasons.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 4, 2020 15:33:20 GMT
So the moderates have banded together and given Uncle Joe a Super Tuesday. Bernie will win California, but we all know those folks are a bit loonie. 😉
Bloomberg just pulled out after only winning in American Samoa, but says he’ll keep throwing money at beating Trump. If he lends his well-funded campaign organization to Biden, it looks like it will be Moderates vs Trump instead of Socialists vs Trump. This go-round.
From the most diverse field of candidates ever, we now have a choice of two old white men going up against one old white man. Sad, that I can tell you.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 4, 2020 16:07:28 GMT
I have never felt comfortable with the American system of calling people by their nicknames. Joe? Bernie? Pete? Those are names you see on bowling shirts or on the uniforms of gas station attendants.
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Post by patricklondon on Mar 4, 2020 17:28:17 GMT
I have never felt comfortable with the American system of calling people by their nicknames I seen to remember hearing about a M. Flanby once upon a time. Berlusconi and Angela Merkel have nicknames too. And as for Australian politicians...!
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 4, 2020 19:33:12 GMT
I have never felt comfortable with the American system of calling people by their nicknames. Liberté, égalité, fraternité!
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 4, 2020 20:13:18 GMT
I have never felt comfortable with the American system of calling people by their nicknames I seen to remember hearing about a M. Flanby once upon a time. Berlusconi and Angela Merkel have nicknames too. And as for Australian politicians...! I am talking about self-inflicted nicknames that they are proud to put on their electoral posters, not the pathetic attack nicknames (Sleepy Joe, Crazy Bernie or whatever). President Obama at least went in the opposite direction by getting rid of "Barry" and returning to "Barack."
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Post by htmb on Mar 4, 2020 21:23:41 GMT
In the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t matter to me if a candidate is called Captain Kangaroo, as long as she/he can successfully lead this country and isn’t called T#@%P!
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