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Post by Kimby on Mar 12, 2020 20:50:29 GMT
I'm sure it was the stutter that made Biden make up a complete whole-cloth lie about being arrested with Nelson Mandela recently. He's been a stutterer— and a pathalogical liar and plagiarist— for his entire career. But he's also clearly in mental decline as well if you compare video of him speaking between now and several years ago. Added to that his impulsive angry outbursts and incoherent remarks. I've noticed that his staff and "handlers" are making him stick with reading what's on the teleprompter and not allowing him to take questions from the media or whatever audience he is in the presence of. He is currently mentally unfit to hold any office where he is in charge of making critical decisions. You’re describing TRUMP, you know. And beating Trump is all that matters right now.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 12, 2020 20:51:32 GMT
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Post by casimira on Mar 12, 2020 21:05:14 GMT
I just heard that Sanders is leading in California.
YAY!!!
I SO want for there to be a debate between Sanders and Biden. Will the DNC allow one,?
I do wish Sanders would be more confrontative if there is one.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 12, 2020 21:13:17 GMT
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 12, 2020 23:20:02 GMT
You know, Kimby, that most of have access to and read the mainstream newspapers of the US, so there is no real need for you to be a moderate, middle-of-the-road, stick-to-the-status-quo shill.
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Post by lagatta on Mar 13, 2020 0:59:12 GMT
Sanders isn't a liberal, he's a social-democrat or democratic socialist (as opposed to a Stalinist, duh). Here they are two different parties.
And I'm sure that he knows that the Nordics and places like the Netherlands have prosperous market economies. But they also have quality social housing, healthcare and education for all, and privilege public and active transport (cycling, walking etc) over ecocidal private-motor-vehicle centric policies. A Desire named Streetcar! or tram...
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Post by lagatta on Mar 13, 2020 1:04:02 GMT
By the way, Biden was always a great train buff and wanted a "Northern New England" line between Montréal and Boston through VT and NH!
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Post by Kimby on Mar 13, 2020 1:33:11 GMT
YOU may read most American newspapers bixa, but I presume others do not. Sorry to disappoint you with my choice of articles. I DID post at least one that was favorable to Bernie...
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Post by bjd on Mar 13, 2020 6:47:40 GMT
I for one appreciate Kimby posting various articles presenting both sides since I wouldn't bother reading so much about the US election otherwise. As much as I don't think Biden is an ideal candidate, I do agree with her that beating Trump is far more important than having Sanders as president. Not that I have a horse in this race, but Trump has been such an unmitigated disaster both nationally and internationally that getting rid of him is the best thing that could happen.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 13, 2020 7:44:33 GMT
Even though I don't click on every single link that people post here, I am happy that people offer them up, especially when they present totally different views of the situation, from fairy tales to depressing realism. This is after all supposed to be a debate board rather than a back patting club. I am quite sorry that Louis XIV was driven away from Anyport for being a Trump supporter, because I'm quite sure that his current views would have been among the most interesting.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Mar 13, 2020 8:12:21 GMT
Obviously I know nothing and can only go on what I hear on the news and read in the newspapers & on anyport. I probably lean towards the more socialist Mr Sanders rather than Mr Biden..but really anybody who isn't Mr Trump would do. Not that I have a say
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Post by lagatta on Mar 13, 2020 10:26:27 GMT
Well, Sanders' main point is something we already have, and I know very few Conservative people who actually want to do away with the healthcare system. Biden often seems out of it, but Reagan certainly was as well, at the end.
Most of the top US papers have paywalls - I find I can read a few articles a month from the NYT, but nothing at all from the Washington Post. Of course many of these articles are picked up by other publications.
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Post by casimira on Mar 13, 2020 12:05:53 GMT
Even though I don't click on every single link that people post here, I am happy that people offer them up, especially when they present totally different views of the situation, from fairy tales to depressing realism. This is after all supposed to be a debate board rather than a back patting club. I am quite sorry that Louis XIV was driven away from Anyport for being a Trump supporter, because I'm quite sure that his current views would have been among the most interesting.I didn't realize that this occurred and think it speaks poorly of APIAS. Even the name of the forum ANY PORT IN A STORM should welcome ALL opinions and although we may not all agree on many ideologies people should have the freedom to express them without being ostracized (unless they are blatantly hostile).
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Post by lagatta on Mar 13, 2020 12:59:52 GMT
I don't remember that happening - sometimes I'm very busy with other stuff and don't post. Yes, it is unfortunate. The only problem in terms of cases like Trump is that he gets very close to the line on views that are beyond the pale, especially in terms of racism, and of the grossest kind of misogyny.
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Post by fumobici on Mar 13, 2020 15:23:13 GMT
I welcome all viewpoints here. But I've got thick skin and others won't. When people just cut and paste mainstream articles without significantly adding their own content however, it seems pointless and lazy. C'mon people, I want to hear your thinking, not some NYT or WaPo hack writer's. I can't have a dialogue with Thomas Friedman (not that I'd want to!) and I can get that establishment boilerplate anywhere, indeed, it's hard to avoid.
Louis XIV was an archetypal right wing snowflake, unable to defend their opinions, so just flouncing off in a huff. Not our fault at all.
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 13, 2020 15:30:06 GMT
Perhaps I expressed myself harshly to Kimby, but my objection was not to whichever candidate she espouses, but to the continuous adherence to & sharing of the panicky party line that only Biden can save us from Trump.
That message from newspapers across the US has caused excess timidity in voters, leading to a muddied impression of what they really want. Time after time exit polls find voters saying things like, "I really wanted Warren, but wound up giving my vote to Biden.", proving that the news-driven propaganda is likely responsible for driving candidates worthier than Biden (i.e, any one of them, including Micky Mouse, had he run) out of the race.
Edited to say I didn't see Fumobici's post when writing mine, but share the frustration over the mainstream media's message being presented as though it proved something.
As far as Louis, he'd been handled with kid gloves here in the past in order to deflect & soften some outright racist comments. And if you're going to be an advocate of foggy libertarianism, you'd better be prepared to logically explain that position.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 13, 2020 15:39:56 GMT
At least fumobici isn’t afraid to post an opinion! bixa either, as well as some others I needn’t name.
It’s all good, IMO, as we struggle to become well-informed which is increasingly difficult these days. The media seems to have become far more interested in their bottom line than in neutral reporting of events. They GAVE us President Donald J Trump by giving him tons of free publicity, and they gave us the 2 Dem candidates we are left with by reporting the debates and primaries as if they were a horse race and they were the odds-makers. Good but lesser-known candidates (Governors Inslee, Hickenlooper and Bullock, for example) never had a chance. For that, I will hold a grudge against the media as well as the DNC for not finding a way to give all the candidates equal footing, at least until votes began being cast.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 13, 2020 15:51:12 GMT
I agree with fumobici that while links often provide all sorts of eloquent ideas that we commoners can not always express adequately, it is important to present them most of the time with our own views and analyses. Just saying "look at what they said here" is insufficient.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 13, 2020 16:14:27 GMT
Here is an interesting opinion piece, which addresses your practical concerns in a thoughtful way. And embedded in the article is proof, as though we need more, of the chilling inclination of some members of the DNC to ignore the wishes of voters. everyone needs to back whomever is chosen. Absolutely!!!!! And also embedded in your cited article bixa is this: “Bernie Sanders’s supporters have argued that he can expand the electorate to make up for the suburban moderates he’s likely to lose, moderates who were, incidentally, responsible for many of the gains Democrats made in 2018. But while Sanders claimed a popular vote victory in Iowa, there was no surge in voter turnout since the last election, and an NBC News entrance poll showed that the number of first-time caucusers actually went down.” Now we need to work hard to Get Out the Vote. The lack of enthusiasm for anything but Dumping Trump is disconcerting. We may have to wait 4 more years for “big ideas”, but hopefully Trump won’t be POTUS for those 4 years.
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Post by mickthecactus on Mar 13, 2020 17:16:57 GMT
At least fumobici isn’t afraid to post an opinion! bixa either, as well as some others I needn’t name. It’s all good, IMO, as we struggle to become well-informed which is increasingly difficult these days. The media seems to have become far more interested in their bottom line than in neutral reporting of events. They GAVE us President Donald J Trump by giving him tons of free publicity, and they gave us the 2 Dem candidates we are left with by reporting the debates and primaries as if they were a horse race and they were the odds-makers. Good but lesser-known candidates (Governors Inslee, Hickenlooper and Bullock, for example) never had a chance. For that, I will hold a grudge against the media as well as the DNC for not finding a way to give all the candidates equal footing, at least until votes began being cast. President Hickenlooper has a nice ring about it. Sounds like a Marx Brothers character.
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Post by fumobici on Mar 13, 2020 17:17:25 GMT
From my perspective, Biden and Trump are both right-wing nutjobs I could never support so the fearmongering that I must vote "blue no matter who" doesn't and cannot work on me. If Biden's the nominee, I'll vote Green party again, I really like their platform. The Democratic Party hates me and people like me with the same intensity they hate Trump, perhaps even more since they are closer to Trump politically than they are to me.
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Post by fumobici on Mar 13, 2020 17:36:02 GMT
Most of the top US papers have paywalls - I find I can read a few articles a month from the NYT, but nothing at all from the Washington Post. Of course many of these articles are picked up by other publications. I'm grateful for the paywalls erected around the NYT and WaPo insofar as it quarantines me from contact with their billionaire agitprop political content. I hope they build their paywalls so high and unscaleable that only paid subscribers are ever exposed to it. Both papers have many good writers on staff, but when it comes to the subject of politics, they are not remotely objective and with their reputations they can do a lot of damage if people read it expecting objectivity.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 13, 2020 17:55:55 GMT
Are you sure that the Greens are not just decoys funded by billionaires to make sure that Trump stays in power?
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Post by lagatta on Mar 13, 2020 17:56:12 GMT
I most certainly do not expect objectivity from the NYT or WaPo on politics or most anything else. I do enjoy reading their correspondent in Montréal (he was originally from here). And the food columns, of course!
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Post by lagatta on Mar 13, 2020 18:08:16 GMT
Kerouac, I don't think that for a moment, though some of the Green Parties take very confused positions. I don't know much about the US Greens. I can understand why US people would vote Biden to block Trump, but fortunately I don't have that problem. Even though the NDP lost a lot of ground to the Bloc Québécois in the last election, my MP was once again re-elected with a large plurality (he got an outright majority in the previous elections).
And the DSA doesn't actually run candidates.
One thing that bothered me about the US Greens last time was that Dr Jill Stein almost seemed to espouse a "sceptical" attitude towards vaccination. Sounds like pandering to a certain low-information hippy-dippy sort of Greenie, who isn't "listening to the scientists". But I admit to not having paid much attention to the election.
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Post by fumobici on Mar 13, 2020 18:24:12 GMT
Are you sure that the Greens are not just decoys funded by billionaires to make sure that Trump stays in power? I doubt it, but I also really don't care.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 13, 2020 18:24:55 GMT
From The GuardianSour grapes or a secret desire to always be able to express dissatisfaction? I was in that camp for a long time.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 13, 2020 19:23:55 GMT
Are you sure that the Greens are not just decoys funded by billionaires to make sure that Trump stays in power? In Montana, the Green Party has not fielded any candidates for the upcoming elections. However, SOMEBODY (some group unknown to Green Party organizers) passed around petitions and got enough signatures to put the Green Party on the ballot. Who would do this? Someone who knows “Green Party” candidates take votes away from Democrats, perhaps? More dirty tricks.
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 13, 2020 19:25:23 GMT
I'm grateful for the paywalls erected around the NYT and WaPo insofar as it quarantines me from contact with their billionaire agitprop political content. I hope they build their paywalls so high and unscaleable that only paid subscribers are ever exposed to it. Both papers have many good writers on staff, but when it comes to the subject of politics, they are not remotely objective and with their reputations they can do a lot of damage if people read it expecting objectivity. You see, I wouldn't know what they are like because of the paywall. How do you know this if you've not paid either? Things like their "billionaire agitprop political content", or "Both papers have many good writers on staff" or "they are not remotely objective" etc if the content is hidden? Either you've read them a lot somewhere else somehow or are going by what other people have said about them who have paid. Or extracts elsewhere. I'm open to another option and I'm interested to understand how you know so much about them if you don't pay to read.
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Post by lagatta on Mar 13, 2020 19:29:07 GMT
Some might also call it principles. I'm not judging any friends in the US who take either of those stances; I'm just very lucky that I don't have to settle. My riding/borough has left "élus" at all levels; federal, Québec and municipal.
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