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Brexit
Jul 1, 2016 4:40:26 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 4:40:26 GMT
Unfortunately, it's a given from the dawn of time: the most recently arrived immigrant group is the "guilty" party in the eyes of anybody just one step above them.
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Brexit
Jul 1, 2016 8:09:09 GMT
Post by rikita on Jul 1, 2016 8:09:09 GMT
i would say it is more the one perceived as most "different" than the most recent ... the roma have been in europe for many centuries and they are still very discriminated against, for example ... and for example the aboriginals in australia did not have it exactly easy for a long time, either, even though they are not exactly the most recently arrived ...
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Brexit
Jul 1, 2016 20:40:26 GMT
Post by cheerypeabrain on Jul 1, 2016 20:40:26 GMT
At the moment I'm just waiting for something to give me hope. Farage's disgraceful behaviour the other day in Brussels just made me want to cry. Twerp. Please don't think that this man truly represents our nation. I think that I am as guilty as the next person of not taking our MEPs seriously enough resulting in the rise of UKip and eventually to this ridiculous referendum that should never have taken place imo. The only political leader with any integrity is unfortunately not showbizzy enough for the all powerful media who are pretty much destroying his reputation (aided and abetted by the Blairite nearly-tories in the shadow cabinet). Apparently he wasn't successful in persuading the average Labour voter to vote 'remain' altho 63% of us did (compared to only 42% Tory voters).
Just want the politicians to sort themselves out and get on with governing the country.
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Brexit
Jul 2, 2016 0:08:39 GMT
Post by questa on Jul 2, 2016 0:08:39 GMT
Cheery, what is generally thought about Theresa May for PM? Thatcher started out as a "compromise" PM. then all hell broke loose.
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Brexit
Jul 3, 2016 18:19:43 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 18:19:43 GMT
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Brexit
Jul 3, 2016 18:50:07 GMT
Post by cheerypeabrain on Jul 3, 2016 18:50:07 GMT
Cheery, what is generally thought about Theresa May for PM? Thatcher started out as a "compromise" PM. then all hell broke loose. So far Theresa May is the front runner for PM due to the fact that she has a lot of support within the party and is an experienced cabinet minister. I worry that we'll end up with another Thatcher. May voted to remain in the EU and a few other candidates (predictably those with less support) are sayng that they need a leader from the leave camp. I watched Andrew Marr this morning and I'm non the wiser after watching the interviews...I think that May will win.
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Brexit
Jul 3, 2016 19:42:57 GMT
Post by bjd on Jul 3, 2016 19:42:57 GMT
Can't open that link, Kerouac. You have to log in.
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Brexit
Jul 3, 2016 20:01:26 GMT
Post by mossie on Jul 3, 2016 20:01:26 GMT
Sorry Cheery, you backed the wrong horse. The lower orders have kicked over the traces and rebelled against the London centric elite, the Westminster Bubble has been pricked.
Mat could be the best of a sorry bunch, let us hope she has the backbone to stand firm against the Junkers et al, who will lie and cheat.
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Brexit
Jul 3, 2016 20:43:08 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 20:43:08 GMT
Can't open that link, Kerouac. You have to log in. I didn't.
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Brexit
Jul 3, 2016 20:57:46 GMT
Post by htmb on Jul 3, 2016 20:57:46 GMT
Just click a couple of things and you can get in (accept cookies, etc).
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Brexit
Jul 4, 2016 10:34:58 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Jul 4, 2016 10:34:58 GMT
Farage has gone then as well.
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Brexit
Jul 4, 2016 10:41:18 GMT
Post by bjd on Jul 4, 2016 10:41:18 GMT
No loss - an unpleasant, monkey-faced little man.
Mark, I would have sworn you were a Remain voter.
And I saw Boris Johnson criticizing the British government for not having a Plan in case of Leave winning. Well, of course they didn't -- they expected Remain to win. And what has he done -- taken his ball and gone home?
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Brexit
Jul 4, 2016 10:47:04 GMT
Post by questa on Jul 4, 2016 10:47:04 GMT
That is a blessing in itself.
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Brexit
Jul 4, 2016 11:48:13 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 11:48:13 GMT
Clearly none of the original leaders want to be there to take the blame if (when) it is discovered that this was a bad, bad idea. And then they will accuse the new people of selling out.
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Brexit
Jul 4, 2016 11:51:45 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 11:51:45 GMT
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Brexit
Jul 4, 2016 16:19:37 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Jul 4, 2016 16:19:37 GMT
Mark, I would have sworn you were a Remain voter. It was close, one way or the other. Many reasons to be considered and a lot of thought. Some important and directly affecting me, some not so much. I think the bedevilment of watching the ructions from afar if the vote was to go was also appealing though. And it has gone better than expected. Schadenfreude is the German word I don't think we have in English.
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Brexit
Jul 4, 2016 17:09:08 GMT
Post by bjd on Jul 4, 2016 17:09:08 GMT
I watched some journalists (only one of whom was a Brit) talk about it this afternoon. The consensus seemed to be a negative, badly-run Remain campaign vs a fear-mongering, effective Leave campaign, leading to an unexpected win for the Leaves. The result leaves the British political class in total disarray, with nobody taking responsibility for what happened.
Sounds about right.
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Brexit
Jul 4, 2016 19:35:31 GMT
Post by whatagain on Jul 4, 2016 19:35:31 GMT
Yet let us not forget that thanks to the Brexiters, I'm renogiating my interest loans. Intrested plunged to lows of 1,1% whilst I have some loans about 2%. Renegociating it at this level will make a saving of about 3 k€ for the remaining 5 yeafrs, or about 50€ a month for me.... Since a lot of Brexiters voted leave to save money I am thankful that I make a saving. As for them... not sure they'll have more money and less immigration, but ... ce n'est pas mon problème après tout !
My french friends I talked to (after some beers, I confess) said that at least they would dismantle Sandgate and let the Brits care aboput immigrant. Something like 'good for them' and 'suits them fine' was probably exchanged but again, we had drank. Belgian beer, of course. We boycotted Guinness...
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Brexit
Jul 4, 2016 19:51:22 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 19:51:22 GMT
It's true that the French would very much appreciate booting the British immigration officials from Paris Gare du Nord and Calais and let all of the arrivals be dealt with on the other side of the Channel like in the old days. I think the British will like that -- more power for them!
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Brexit
Jul 5, 2016 20:59:11 GMT
Post by mossie on Jul 5, 2016 20:59:11 GMT
I suppose the Continentals are glad to see the back of the pesky English, especially Mr Farage , who told them a few home truths that they didn't want to hear. It has certainly knocked our out of touch political leaders off their perches, the only one left is the nonentity Liberal. What effect it will have on the EU is hard to judge, but they will miss our money, I believe UK was one of only four members who put money in, all the rest are on the scrounge.
As for the situation at Calais, I just hope we get a strong enough leader who will impose a proper immigration system which only lets in those likely to be useful. Europe does not seem capable of policing its own borders and so allows el Quaeda free access.
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Brexit
Jul 5, 2016 21:20:55 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2016 21:20:55 GMT
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Brexit
Jul 5, 2016 22:37:04 GMT
Post by rikita on Jul 5, 2016 22:37:04 GMT
I just hope we get a strong enough leader who will impose a proper immigration system which only lets in those likely to be useful. right, everyone else can go and die, or something. (sorry, but i really don't like the idea of thinking of people in the terms of "useful" and "useless")
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Brexit
Jul 6, 2016 0:01:57 GMT
Post by questa on Jul 6, 2016 0:01:57 GMT
I agree with Rikita, I prefer to think we are screening OUT those with indications of malevolent intentions, be they criminal, terrorist, paedophilic or a history of thuggish behaviour.
Come to think of it...the first people who colonised most of Australia, either convicts or soldiers, would have fitted into this description.
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Brexit
Jul 6, 2016 8:06:49 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Jul 6, 2016 8:06:49 GMT
Your graph K2, is misleading and not relevant to what mossie said. What it shows is the percentage of GNI each country pays. So, for example, it shows Germany as way down the field when we know Germany pays way, way more than Belgium in money terms. Also it doesn't show what each country takes out of the EU. So, if one country pays in 100 million a week but takes out 150 million a week, it in effect is a drain on the EU. Yet, if you just put up a graph of contributions, it appears that country is contributing a fair amount. If you try and use a graph that doesn't actually show money put in, nor any money taken out, but shows a percentage......well, it's uninformative and misleading. So, country 'A' has a GNI of 1000 million. It puts in the EU 100 million - that is 10% Country 'B' has a GNI of 2000 million. It also puts in 100 million - that is 5% On a graph it looks like A is contributing more than B - but when you factor in that A takes out 200 million and B nothing (which k2's graph doesn't show), then the figures change again and country B is actually in financial terms doing more for the EU than A. Mossie says, "I believe UK was one of only four members who put money in, all the rest are on the scrounge." You then post a graph that on first glance makes it look like all the countries contribute and mossie is talking out his arse. It's not until you look a little closer you see that the graph actually bears little relation to mossie's statement. I've mentioned before about these graphics and how they distort the truth, or, as in this case, may well tell the truth, but it is a different truth to what is being discussed. Please, in future, if you feel the need for a pretty picture, at least try and find the right one. This one is better -
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Brexit
Jul 6, 2016 8:17:00 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Jul 6, 2016 8:17:00 GMT
Immigration - I feel a thread coming on.
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Brexit
Jul 6, 2016 8:19:22 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Jul 6, 2016 8:19:22 GMT
Come to think of it...the first people who colonised most of Australia, either convicts or soldiers, would have fitted into this description. And how did that go for the original inhabitants of Australia?
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Brexit
Jul 6, 2016 9:43:40 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2016 9:43:40 GMT
Your graph K2, is misleading and not relevant to what mossie said. Made you look. But I disagree that it is irrelevant. The percentage that a country is paying from its resources in far more relevant than the actual monetary amount, unless you think that countries like Malta or Slovenia should pay exactly the same amount as Germany. As for not getting as much money back, that is what solidarity is all about, isn't it?
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Brexit
Jul 6, 2016 9:51:37 GMT
Post by lagatta on Jul 6, 2016 9:51:37 GMT
As for paedophilic, there were all those nice missionaries...
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Brexit
Jul 6, 2016 10:12:15 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2016 10:12:15 GMT
Copied from Facebook, posted by Dean Carlton, Melbourne, Australia: Brexit: Please share this widely to help the young understand why they should not be be propagating the media-fuelled myth that they are justified in their attack on the old. Most of the angst seems to be driven by a single, misleading statistic: that is the MYTH that 73% of 18-24 year olds voted to 'Remain' and have therefore been let down by their elders. The reality is that just 36% of those in that age range actually showed up at a polling station - the lowest representation of all age groups in this ballot, an historical pattern repeated in other votes across the world. Yes, of those 36% that actually voted, 73% voted to remain - but this is not how the 'facts' are being presented globally. The attached infographic combines 3 separate sources of facts to demonstrates the real numbers behind this win for 'Leave'. I have also taken the opportunity to show how different the result could have been, had this outrage been channeled to mobilise young voters BEFORE the polling stations closed.... We have a democracy and the the people have voted. We have to respect the decision of the majority that bothered to vote - which was actually pretty high. We cannot say, "I do not like the outcome therefore let's attack those we disagree with". I am truly saddened at the divisive, biased and hysterical media that is fuelling anger at "the olds" that have apparently ruined it for the "the youngs". Yes the world is different now, but we share that same world and we are all impacted by that world. We are all in this together. What happened to respecting the knowledge and experience of those that have lived through more (and longer) than we as individuals have? Do I as a 48 year old have less of a say than someone who is 18-24 or 25-35? Does somebody that has worked and paid taxes for 40-50 years have less of a say than a 20 year old? Does a 20 year old have the right to deride someone who is 60-80+ by rubbing their mortality in their faces: "You won't be around in 10 years and you've ruined it for us"..... What a thoughtless, crass, selfish, self-centred and wicked thing to say.... Please share widely - let's try to stem this wave of anger.
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Brexit
Jul 6, 2016 10:42:35 GMT
Post by questa on Jul 6, 2016 10:42:35 GMT
onlyMark...re the original inhabitants...it did not go well. When the invaders arrived the life expectation of the aboriginal people was about 70 years and they had excellent diet and customs to avoid illness. The settlers had a bad diet from childhood and a life expectation of under 50 years. They carried exotic diseases which wiped out the local communities like wildfire. Mostly with good intentions governments and missionaries stole the culture, then the children. These days there is more appreciation of indigenous people and culture, but some of the old rednecks are still around.
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