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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 20:06:43 GMT
Post by lugg on Jun 24, 2016 20:06:43 GMT
Cheerie ....we both used the same word at the same time
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 20:07:12 GMT
Post by cheerypeabrain on Jun 24, 2016 20:07:12 GMT
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 20:13:50 GMT
Post by cheerypeabrain on Jun 24, 2016 20:13:50 GMT
snap I've been absolutely desolate today, all but two of my colleagues voted to remain and the atmosphere in the department has been one of disbelief and despair. The referendum was (imo) a vote based on the xenophobia that has been simmering away here for years led largely by the British media and ridiculous far right tits like Farrage. It was a close call really. BUT....it's democracy and we just have to suck it up and make the best of things. I am quite proud of my city tho...Leicester voted to remain in the EU.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 20:18:09 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 20:18:09 GMT
Although I voted Leave, I was quite surprised that view prevailed. A TV pundit has said that the working people have rebelled against the ruling elite. They have been kept poor ever since the banking scandal and wages have not progressed, held back by mass immigration of people willing to work hard for less. Most of these immigrants are from Eastern Europe and some of their standards of behaviour are not acceptable, the powers that be try to ignore this and complaints are met with charges of racism. So a very unhappy population has resulted and have chosen the opportunity to kick back. In the meantime they see those at the top awarding themselves higher and higher salaries and pensions, so adding to the grievances. I'm sorry, Mossie, but if you think the working man is now going to have a chance to grab power, you're mistaken. Wages will go down, the economy will be even more depressed, and the corporate and political elites will exploit poor Brits as they have always done. Just more of the same. And it's the same the world over, we're all battling fear and bigotry and hatred and corporatism. All we can do is work worldwide for more humane treatment of each other.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 20:21:05 GMT
Post by cheerypeabrain on Jun 24, 2016 20:21:05 GMT
Absolutely
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 20:21:47 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 20:21:47 GMT
That video is excellent.
"Un mal pour un bien" is a French expression meaning that something good can come out of something bad. If this referendum could spark the reunification of Ireland and the independence of Scotland, I feel that the expression would be appropriate.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 20:27:15 GMT
Post by cheerypeabrain on Jun 24, 2016 20:27:15 GMT
*sob*
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 20:29:02 GMT
Post by cheerypeabrain on Jun 24, 2016 20:29:02 GMT
I've asked my Scottish relatives if they would consider Scotland taking on the city of Leicester as a protectorate.... but I think they've had enough of the English. Good Lord I've had enough of the English and I AM English...
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 20:31:41 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 20:31:41 GMT
I confess total ignorance on this matter to a very large degree by choice. ( I don't understand a lot about the EU and how or what it's effect has on most people, especially in my own realm.) However, over the past few days and surely since the result of the vote, more and more has come to light, and I assure you, I listen, read, and watch very few news outlets so as to not boggle the mind. What I have heard (NPR source) is the overall global effect economically this will have as evidenced in trade, most glaringly, already in evidence, the stock market and,disconcertingly however erroneous the information may be, the effect on British citizens(Expats) living elsewhere in Europe, their retirement, health insurance etc. Also, several friends of mine (US) have expressed anxiety over how this will affect their retirement packages, which already took a hit after the 2008 Wall Street crash. Of this I have no real comprehension due to my lack of ignorance with regard to global financial matters. But, perhaps selfishly, I am concerned as to how this is going to play out with regard to the US presidential election and, our already "iffy" economy. Ironic that Trump was in Scotland at the time of the vote...
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 20:33:28 GMT
Post by mossie on Jun 24, 2016 20:33:28 GMT
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Brexit
Jun 25, 2016 0:35:46 GMT
Post by questa on Jun 25, 2016 0:35:46 GMT
Re post # 78 Several years ago we has a referendum about becoming a republic.. The stats were very similar to this one in the age breakdown. The younger voters wanted the status quo, the older voters wanted to change the system. Where is the rebellion of youth and the recalcitrance of old age?
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Brexit
Jun 25, 2016 1:47:04 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 1:47:04 GMT
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Brexit
Jun 25, 2016 5:31:53 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 5:31:53 GMT
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Brexit
Jun 25, 2016 6:46:13 GMT
Post by cheerypeabrain on Jun 25, 2016 6:46:13 GMT
There is now a petition on the H.M. Government website calling for a second vote points out that the agreed rules set out by said HM government were that if the majority vote was less than 60% then there should be another referendum. Too late mate. I think that we've burned our bridges (signed it anyway).
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Brexit
Jun 25, 2016 7:25:58 GMT
Post by mossie on Jun 25, 2016 7:25:58 GMT
Oh! What wailing and knashing of teeth. This country has got to pick itself up, acquire some backbone, and stop kidding ourselves. We have got deeper in debt than ever before, and keep on borrowing more every day. A household budget cannot succeed like that nor can a country. We have public servants retiring in their '50's, on pensions approaching and sometimes exceeding, £100,000. The black hole in public finance represented is incalculable. We have bankers and stockbrokers paying themselves millions sliced out of our meagre savings and wages. No wonder we are in a mess.
Now we must get back on our feet, and apply some real austerity where it will do some good. And start working properly. I am ashamed at how soft the country has become, I realise that there are some who are hard pressed, but the vast majority have no idea what austerity means.
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Brexit
Jun 25, 2016 9:00:38 GMT
Post by bixaorellana on Jun 25, 2016 9:00:38 GMT
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Brexit
Jun 25, 2016 9:21:03 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Jun 25, 2016 9:21:03 GMT
I wonder how many voted to stay in for the main reason being 'better the devil you know'. Something had to change. The distance in the UK's perception (mainly among politicians) of how important and influential we were compared to reality was growing wider and wider. Too many 'bad' things were being blamed on Europe rather than our own government. Too many were taking advantage of the vast amounts of money involved. Too many were, and currently are, taking the piss.
Many below their forties don't know any different and have lived within the EU all their lives, these, I wonder are in the majority in calling us more mature individuals 'morons'. Much criticism is being aimed at the Leavers for ruining their future lives. As usual they are trying to blame someone else for threatening their pampered lifestyle. It is though these who now need to get up off their arses, away from social media (says he, typing away on a forum), away from the celebrity culture, away from the I can't be bothered attitude, away from whining about their so called 'rights', get their heads back to earth and do something productive for a change.
They think we have ruined it for them and are just looking after ourselves. In my case looking after myself means staying in the EU so I can benefit from agreements on pensions, healthcare and travel. Maybe I was willing to risk all that to alleviate the feeling that that EU was just becoming a directionless and corrupt behemoth that I wanted now no part of (of which I now wanted no part?).
We've abandoned a sinking ship, the more mature are swimming to safety because they know that is the only thing to do. Nobody will come and rescue us. The younger ones are floating around waiting for help as it is their 'right' to get it. Or so they believe. Unless they do something, they will go under feeling aggrieved someone else let them drown, it is not their fault but that of others. Those Scottish that are swimming are going in the opposite direction so they can have the choice to drown by themselves.
The English lion and Welsh dragon seem to have joined forces to make their way to safety. And we're dragging all those wimpy southerners who voted to remain, with us. They ought to be grateful instead of crying into their double vanilla mochaccino latte's made with Himalayan coffee beans that have passed through the anal sphincter of a llama fed on free range dolphin friendly grass.
And while I'm at it - immigrants. God help us if we don't acknowledge the contribution they've made over the decades to the economy, the health service and culture. Yes, there are some bad, but then home grown idiots are aplenty as well. I don't necessarily mean the more the merrier, but I do mean that had we to rely on just us Norman/Dane/Celtic/Viking/Pict/Angle/Saxon/Jute/Frisian/Roman mongrels, we'd be a lot worse off. (Note the irony that the English are made up of few originals and mostly 'incomers')
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Brexit
Jun 25, 2016 9:35:20 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Jun 25, 2016 9:35:20 GMT
I don't want to fall out with anyone on here, but this second petition/referendum? Sour grapes. It's like saying "best of three?" and "....but but but....." "I don't like the result of the free and fair vote, so can we do it again please?"
It is a democracy. No matter people are venting that the populace were ill informed. They have voted. Is there not supposed to be a vote until 'someone' is satisfied the people have all the facts in an unbiased manner? That'd be historic. It's never happened before. In any country, in any vote, ever. Both sides have had their say. They've had a chance to do it for months. And months. They can't keep having a referendum until they get the result they want. What happens if there is another one and the vote is to stay. Do those who voted leave get chance to have yet another vote to overturn the second one? Where does it end?
Get a line drawn under it, as they say, they had their chance, now do something to help the majority - note, the majority - who voted out and to make the move a success. I respect those who voted to stay in, it is their right to say so and vote to do so. I didn't. That's the end of it.
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Brexit
Jun 25, 2016 12:28:54 GMT
Post by mossie on Jun 25, 2016 12:28:54 GMT
I'm with you Mark, but note that another referendum is EU speak for "you haf got it wrong, ve vill make you wote and wote again until you gif zee right answer"
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Brexit
Jun 25, 2016 13:10:03 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Jun 25, 2016 13:10:03 GMT
Your German is getting better Mossie.
Vorsprung durch technik eh!
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Brexit
Jun 25, 2016 13:10:44 GMT
Post by questa on Jun 25, 2016 13:10:44 GMT
and the beatings will continue until morale is higher.
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Brexit
Jun 25, 2016 14:51:19 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 14:51:19 GMT
Well, all I know is, Canada shall not be the repository of disgruntled voters (and I'm looking at you too, Trumphobes). Oh, and your nostalgia for the Britain of a half century ago is so quaint.
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Brexit
Jun 25, 2016 15:13:59 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Jun 25, 2016 15:13:59 GMT
I've just had a thought about this second vote and have a question or two. If it is in the rules that if less than 75% voted and the result is less than 60% one way or another, you can have a re-run, then fair enough.
But, doing some rough calculations from figures on the BBC, there are it seems 46,600,000 people eligible to vote. (Using 72% did vote and the numbers supplied out and in).
So, if the number is right of 17,410,742 who voted leave - that is about just over 37% of eligible voters - if none of them voted at all in a new referendum, the total votes could not exceed 63%. This is yet again less than the 75% of voters who do need to vote even though the 'stay' percentage of those voting would exceed the 60% cut off.
If the new vote leads to a majority of stays and the totals are still less than required, does the first vote still stand? Or are we going to have to vote and vote again and again until either someone says "Enough. The people have spoken" or somehow the required figures of 60% and 75% are achieved?
For those who want a second vote, stop calling all of us stupid and morons etc and that we've made a big mistake - when the reverse can also be true, we may think the stayers are the same, it is they who have made the mistake, plus are short-sighted.
If I'm being crapped on and I don't have a choice, I'd rather move out from under the torrent, then be free to choose which pile of crap I want to fall on me. Or, just maybe, I might in time come up smelling of roses rather than the continuous downfall supplied from 'above' in Europe.
All this talk of in or out unfailingly reminds me of belly buttons. Are you an inny or an outy? I've taken up enough of your collective time and had my say, now the results are in. Carry on and panic at will.
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Brexit
Jun 25, 2016 18:08:57 GMT
Post by cheerypeabrain on Jun 25, 2016 18:08:57 GMT
I do think that the second referendum is unlikely to happen and would just cause more unrest. As Mark so elloquently put, we live in a democracy and the decision has been made. I think a lot of the 'remainers', especially younger people are just scared of the unknown. The media is loving every minute of it and reporters are charging around the country stirring up as much dissent and hysteria as they can, turn off the tv. It's done. Enough already! Now we have to get together and make sure that the government doesn't use all the kerfuffle to sneak in unpopular reforms whilst we're not paying attention.
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Brexit
Jun 25, 2016 19:46:21 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Jun 25, 2016 19:46:21 GMT
Sneak in unpopular reforms when our back is turned? They wouldn't do that, would they?
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Brexit
Jun 25, 2016 22:43:41 GMT
Post by rikita on Jun 25, 2016 22:43:41 GMT
Most of these immigrants are from Eastern Europe and some of their standards of behaviour are not acceptable, the powers that be try to ignore this and complaints are met with charges of racism. as someone who has spent a lot of time in one eastern european country and has relatives in another (well, central european really, but often named as eastern european), and friend of eastern europeans living in the UK, i am curious: what standards of behaviour are those?
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Brexit
Jun 26, 2016 0:27:33 GMT
Post by questa on Jun 26, 2016 0:27:33 GMT
Votes declared, they've decided to Leave But now they all want a reprieve "We did not understand What we had in our hand Or what we would have to receive"
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Brexit
Jun 26, 2016 6:50:44 GMT
Post by mossie on Jun 26, 2016 6:50:44 GMT
Rikita. Some eastern europeans have made them selves unpopular by gathering in large groups drinking and singing on the street. Some are very good workers.
Don't forget my past, i flew with a Pole for nearly 5 years, we had to trust one another implicitly and I looked on him as a friend and ally.
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Brexit
Jun 26, 2016 7:56:03 GMT
Post by rikita on Jun 26, 2016 7:56:03 GMT
sorry, but I had to chuckle a bit at your post ... do you know what young british tourists are known for in cities like prague? you might argue that those are tourists vs. immigrants, but the effect is kind of similar ... so did your friend the pole do the same?
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Brexit
Jun 26, 2016 11:44:08 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 11:44:08 GMT
Rikita is spot on for that one. Even in England it seems to me that groups of local pure Brits are extremely well known for drinking and singing in the streets, which would be fine since it is their own country if there wasn't also all of the puking and pissing on top of it. And let's not even talk about what they do in Greece and Spain.
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