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Brexit
Jun 17, 2016 21:03:52 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2016 21:03:52 GMT
I don't think that revolutionary groups, even relatively small ones, can be placed in the same category as lone killers. The Red Brigades, Action Directe and the Red Army Faction (Baader-Meinhof) were all 'coherent' organisations even if they were smaller than the Basque ETA or the Irish Republican Army. After all, Castro's group started out with only about a dozen people before finally overthrowing the Cuban government.
These mentally unstable killers are something else entirely, whether they have leftist or rightist political leanings. Does it really mean anything that the Orlando killer had registered as a Democrat?
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Brexit
Jun 17, 2016 21:29:11 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2016 21:29:11 GMT
I guess I was trying to tie it back to the assassination of Jo Cox by a supposed "right-wing" nutjob. I was having my shower today, thinking about my earlier post, and realising that it didn't hold together. You have assassinations of political figures (always politically motivated, often by the unhinged), mass shootings (unhinged perpetrators, certainly, sometimes with a gloss of vague extremist idealogies) and terrorism (extremist ideology, far-reaching political agenda, mental state undetermined). I don't think anyone really believes that American Democrats are left-wing, K. But right-wing politics (in the US at least) always includes guns, so they have much more ready access to the means of annihilation.
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Brexit
Jun 18, 2016 9:49:58 GMT
Post by bixaorellana on Jun 18, 2016 9:49:58 GMT
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Brexit
Jun 18, 2016 10:04:01 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 10:04:01 GMT
No, they have suspended campaigning, not the referendum.
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Brexit
Jun 21, 2016 21:53:37 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 21:53:37 GMT
Among British passport holders eligible to vote, there are 1.2 million residents in Australia, 760,000 residents in Spain and 600,000 in the United States, just to name the top 3 countries. If the vote is close, they could easily make a difference.
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Brexit
Jun 22, 2016 9:15:30 GMT
Post by bixaorellana on Jun 22, 2016 9:15:30 GMT
Even though I am quite interested in the referendum and all that has led up to it, I can truthfully say that I know nothing. I confess to having a gut feeling that the UK should stay, but cannot defend that position in any informed way. But I keep reading, hoping to get some kind of grasp. After reading Kerouac's statistics above, I came across this article: What Would a Brexit Mean For Expats?
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Brexit
Jun 22, 2016 12:24:08 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Jun 22, 2016 12:24:08 GMT
As an expat I'm obviously interested in information relevant to my situation. In reading this it seems that little will change in the short term and probably little in the long term, though they do conclude with saying they have no idea. This is my view already. Nobody has any idea, but, it does take many years for things to appreciably change. So, I'm not worried if we stay or go. If we do leave though, ask me again in five years.
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Brexit
Jun 23, 2016 16:26:54 GMT
Post by lagatta on Jun 23, 2016 16:26:54 GMT
I don't feel well placed to express a cogent opinion, as I have never lived in the UK nor even visited for more than a few days (work visit to London, frustratingly short - I was over from the Netherlands). Having lived in Europe as a student and been on extended research stays, and reading media from several EU countries (including the UK and Ireland) I can see the problems with the EU, its bureaucracy and very limited democracy - there is a Parliament, but most decisions seem to be made by bureaucrats. That said, I've also crossed the Rhine with friends who work in Strasbourg and live in a town on the German side where rent is cheaper. So much more pleasant to take part in a crossing by bicycle, with no border posts, than to contemplate the long shadow of wars.
James Meek has a somewhat different take on the decline in fishing in Britain, as the sharpest decline was prior to its EEC membership. Canada, for its part, really messed it up. I remember when cod was one of the cheapest protein sources one could eat here (fortunately, I love fish, as did my mum). For years it was almost unavailable. It is available again, but at a far higher price.
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Brexit
Jun 23, 2016 23:27:28 GMT
Post by lagatta on Jun 23, 2016 23:27:28 GMT
Sorry, I couldn't resist this classic, from the Clash:
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 0:01:38 GMT
Post by bixaorellana on Jun 24, 2016 0:01:38 GMT
Ha ~ perfect, LaGatta! My dollar is worth 4 cents more here than it was before the vote results started coming in. Hard to be happy about that under the circumstances. I had an "I'm in" sticker slapped on my chest this afternoon, despite saying that I was a foreigner & couldn't vote. The guy said, "That's okay -- you're with us!"
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 4:26:45 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 4:26:45 GMT
Well. Congratulations, Mossie.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 7:02:36 GMT
Post by rikita on Jun 24, 2016 7:02:36 GMT
hmwell, i kind of thought till the end that they'd end up voting stay, so i was a bit surprised (and agnes asked why, which wasn't so easy to explain to someone with no ideas about politics) - i suppose it will be interesting what developments the next years will bring ...
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 8:00:34 GMT
Post by bixaorellana on Jun 24, 2016 8:00:34 GMT
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 8:13:31 GMT
Post by bixaorellana on Jun 24, 2016 8:13:31 GMT
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 8:59:21 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Jun 24, 2016 8:59:21 GMT
hmwell, i kind of thought till the end that they'd end up voting stay, so i was a bit surprised (and agnes asked why, which wasn't so easy to explain to someone with no ideas about politics) - i suppose it will be interesting what developments the next years will bring ... I'm with rikita. Exactly what I was thinking. Not the bit about Agnes though. We are now living in interesting times. I am happy that politicians/judiciary/etc can't now blame things on Europe when their hands are tied or things go wrong. But I bet they soon find another scapegoat.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 10:27:54 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 10:27:54 GMT
Bixa, I hear they're already ripping up the tracks and filling in the Channel tunnel.
Actually, when I was having lunch with some former colleagues earlier this week, we were discussing the possibilities. Although we all preferred the UK to remain in, we all confessed that life would become more interesting in the case of a "leave" vote and were very intrigued by the various possibilities -- from the arrival of independent Scotland to at least having the EU be able to move forward without the big recalcitrant digging its heels in. And we all got a big chuckle out of the idea that if the UK wants remain part of the unified market, it will have to pay just like Norway and Switzerland and adhere to all of the EU product rules for exports without having a say in any of the decisions taken. Oh well, at least they will be able to increase the maximum number of working hours and reduce salaries...
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 11:23:21 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 11:23:21 GMT
Looks like there's still no love lost between Australia and England: Bugger Britain
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 12:08:57 GMT
Post by gabriele on Jun 24, 2016 12:08:57 GMT
K, From a different continent and perspective I still agree. I don't have children (my contribution to world peace--I would have been a poor mother) but I feel the Brexidiots are like demanding children, all grown up but still wanting everything their way, to which I would say: You broke it, you fix it. It's your dog, you clean up after it. No you can't come home and no I'm not going to feed you. you wanted your freedom and you got it. Live with it...or learn to do without. The US 'left' movement is really pathetic. I've noticed that the Guardian USA has been hiring people who either worked for The Nation magazine or worked with people from it. Once upon an old socialist's dreamtime (someone I knew, the father of a friend) The Nation was a viable progressive voice. Now, I avoid most of the G-US writers as I know what they're going to say and I have no interest in any of it. Of course the Guardian has changed so much itself that aside from the football I read a few writers I still respect. But on the referendum: Expats in France could not vote in UK elections. www.change.org/p/rt-hon-david-cameron-mp-give-us-our-votes-back-let-all-british-citizens-living-in-the-eu-vote-in-the-eu-referendum-3I haven't been this disappointed since I found out my husband had voted for Ronald Reagan for president. I never did forgive him for that. A small infidelity, maybe. Voting for Reagan? Never!
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 12:47:38 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 12:47:38 GMT
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 13:15:54 GMT
Post by questa on Jun 24, 2016 13:15:54 GMT
Kerouac...Once upon a time, "Australians" were of Anglo-Celtic descent, who sang "God save the King/Queen" at school and learnt the history of England instead of our own. We had bonds with UK which still last today, mostly sublimated in sporting contests. But we are a minority now. Thousands of happy people from every country have taken the oath and are now Ozzies who have no links with England, no history and interest in a damp little island on the other side of the world. The writer of that piece is looking at the whole global scene and his general drift seems to me one of "Hey, the Empire is over and you are becoming a bit player in the wider sense of global power. Wake up" Then again I could be completely wrong!
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 13:22:04 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Jun 24, 2016 13:22:04 GMT
It's Australia that is on the other side of the world. We are the centre of the solar system, nay, the Universe!
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 14:25:59 GMT
via mobile
Post by whatagain on Jun 24, 2016 14:25:59 GMT
Once upon a time I called a seller to tell him he lost the business we were discussing. The guy told me : I am sure our product is better but since you bought another we made a poor job of convincing you and you took the right decision. I will think the same about Brexit. My seller added that they would be there should I need them. I would need some convincing to welcome them. should the Brits want to come back.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 14:48:40 GMT
Post by questa on Jun 24, 2016 14:48:40 GMT
For the moment, OnlyMark, just for the moment!
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 16:22:18 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 16:22:18 GMT
Brexit is an absolute treasure trove of new problems, and I'm sure we have all read countless articles about them, one of the most important being that the UK has between 2 and 4 years to negotiate its departure. This gives all the time in the world for a new parliament and a new public opinion to ignore the referendum if they feel like doing so (EU referenda have been ignored in the past by both the Netherlands and France; that was the Lisbon treaty, wasn't it?). And since they are supposed to be "negotiating" a myriad of conditions during this period, I can just imagine the UK saying something like "we do not accept your unreasonable demands, so we are going to stay in the EU just to annoy you."
More seriously, unless EU rules are changed, the English language must be abandoned as an EU working language. In the early years of the Common Market, French and German had equal importance, but over the years English has become the lingua franca for almost all of the EU, excluding the European Court of Justice which works in French and which -- surprise surprise -- is the institution most despised by the UK authorities. The English language wasn't even imposed because of British demands but because the Nordic and Eastern countries preferred it to French or German. Even though all legal texts are translated into the 23 official languages of the EU, the vote of the European parliament is now made on the English language version. All of the official EU websites are in English except for that of the European parliament.
Now what is interesting about the departure of the UK is EU rule I-58 of the European treaties. This rule says that each country can have only one official language. The EU had 4 English speaking countries in it, but the other three chose different languages to represent them: Ireland said that its national language is Gaelic, Cyprus said that its language is Greek, and Malta said that its language is Maltese. This means that not a single country will have English as its official language after the departure of the UK, so there will be no reason to use it anymore.
So just change rule I-58? Not likely, because Spain, France and the Baltic countries will vote against it to prevent their linguistic minorities from demanding equal status for Catalan, Basque, Corsican, Breton, Alsatian and Russian. Easier to just ditch English completely.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 16:37:15 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 16:37:15 GMT
Interesting points, K, thanks.
Funny how I was always proud of my (meagre) English heritage. Now I can feel my Irish and Scottish blood calling out to me. I wonder what this does to my National Insurance Number.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 18:40:36 GMT
Post by htmb on Jun 24, 2016 18:40:36 GMT
Tonight in Paris I walked by a lot of Wales and Northern Ireland football fans, sitting outside restaurants and bars. Many had suitcases like they'd just arrived for their game tomorrow at Parc des Princes. It must be surreal for them on so many different levels. As a whole, they seemed very subdued.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 19:27:18 GMT
Post by fumobici on Jun 24, 2016 19:27:18 GMT
You could have placed a bet on Brexit on Paddy Power (popular online betting site) at 9-1 the *day* of the election! Someone I know in Egypt took all his liquid assets held in GBP and converted them to USD and has already converted them back to GPB and even with all the fees made a huge profit.
It's probably a stupid move Brexit, there will be some perhaps considerable amount of pain inflicted as a result I have no doubt. I just hope the rest of the EU don't go into vindictive mode and make things worse than they need to be or are likely to be anyway.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 20:03:25 GMT
Post by mossie on Jun 24, 2016 20:03:25 GMT
Although I voted Leave, I was quite surprised that view prevailed. A TV pundit has said that the working people have rebelled against the ruling elite. They have been kept poor ever since the banking scandal and wages have not progressed, held back by mass immigration of people willing to work hard for less. Most of these immigrants are from Eastern Europe and some of their standards of behaviour are not acceptable, the powers that be try to ignore this and complaints are met with charges of racism. So a very unhappy population has resulted and have chosen the opportunity to kick back. In the meantime they see those at the top awarding themselves higher and higher salaries and pensions, so adding to the grievances.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 20:04:47 GMT
Post by cheerypeabrain on Jun 24, 2016 20:04:47 GMT
gutted
we're screwed
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 20:05:28 GMT
Post by lugg on Jun 24, 2016 20:05:28 GMT
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