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Brexit
Jun 28, 2016 16:54:38 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Jun 28, 2016 16:54:38 GMT
"Foolish" were apparently over seventeen million people. Foolish is no more in this case than a matter of opinion. Foolish are those that didn't vote. Foolish are the politicians who were not in touch with the voters in their area. If they had been they would have seen that the tide had turned. I don't necessarily know whether the figures given in the above video are accurate, but foolish is what it would be to dismiss out of hand what he has said. Foolish would be wimping out and trying to either dilute or delay what has been voted upon. Though I do expect this will happen. Foolish would be for any politician to ignore the message sent by the result of the vote. Foolish is the in-fighting and backstabbing behaviour now coming to the fore. Foolish are those that now cry foul and don't, for the good of the country, try and do something positive, don't accept what has happened and instead cast the blame far and wide trying to cover their backs. Foolish are those that flounder in a cess pit of their own making shouting "woe is me, woe is me. How did I get here?" instead of extricating themselves and coming up with a plan to get the country back on its feet.
The first step 'on the road to recovery' is confidence. "We are able to do this". Foolish is believing we are in the shit and cannot recover from it instead of running round like a headless blue arsed chicken fly (mixed metaphors, sorry) with no-one standing up and saying, "THIS is what we'll do" In fact if nobody does soon I've a mind to go there myself. They (meaning politicians and the like) need a proverbial slap round the ears to make them focus. Foolish was voting to remain. And if there is another vote, no matter the inkling people are now getting as to the consequences, it is still foolish to remain.
That'll do for now. But never say I am foolish, naive, old and senile, stupid, moronic, uneducated, racist or any other of the terms of abuse the stayers have heaped upon us. I just, and simply, have a different opinion and it degrades my view of others when they resort to name calling. You (whoever you are) who is doing this fail to grasp in your moment of frustration that it just makes many of us even more determined to stand by our views. Abuse doesn't now, and never will, and never has, changed someone's opinion.
Is that clear enough? I'm going now to check my pension, my health care cover, my savings and my right to residence. Just in case.
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Brexit
Jun 28, 2016 17:07:52 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 17:07:52 GMT
You have ticked all of the "foolish" boxes which are likely to be validated by whoever (if anyone) is in charge in the United Kingdom, so I completely agree with you. It is the same thing in most of the spoiled countries of the developed world where the populists seem to believe that only the "little folk" understand what should be done in our countries, even though if you ask them to elaborate on the important issues of the day, they are not able to do so. Pandering to public opinion works part of the time, but it is never a solution to real problems.
If it's any consolation, Hitler only got 11.3 million votes compared to Hindenburg's 19.3 million in the German presidential election of 1932, but when Hindenburg died of lung cancer in 1934, they decided that Hitler should rule the country. So the little people got their revenge.
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Brexit
Jun 28, 2016 17:33:19 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 17:33:19 GMT
Thanks Rita, at least someone is on our side. I guess one has to takes one's allies wherever they can be found. If you investigate Paul Barnard on the internet you will discover that his philosophy is "ultimate fighting" and "outrageous extremism." He is famous for appearing on Facebook while masturbating. He names his school of thought "cynicism."
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Brexit
Jun 28, 2016 18:44:50 GMT
Post by mossie on Jun 28, 2016 18:44:50 GMT
Well, if it's any consolation, I am a cynic. Our present bunch of politicians are a pretty spineless lot, I am trusting that someone with some good old fashioned backbone will become Prime Minister and get stuck into serious and meaningful negotiations with Brussels. I guess this will be as easy as wading knee deep in pig shit, but we have to get a settlement that is fair to both sides. Brussels is floundering because they are going to miss all our wonderful money, whether it is £350 million a week or £10 million, it still keeps their trough topped up and without it they will be feeling the pinch. For too long we have been fobbed off and outvoted on sensible measures. The contemptuous way it which Cameron was offered scraps when he attempted a serious renegotiation is typical of their attitude to us.
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Brexit
Jun 28, 2016 18:53:03 GMT
Post by whatagain on Jun 28, 2016 18:53:03 GMT
Well believe it or not I'm a commercial guy. I spend my life negociating deals. And you know what ? I don't want THE good deal. I want a deal that works, at the lowest cost for me (and the other party), and that includes taking the easiest way during negociation. If I have to spend 2 years negociating the perfect contract for me, I'd rather sign something far from perfect but quick. Then I can devote my energy to another, hopefully better, contract. I suppose politicians do the same, and I expect british politicians to try and find an easier solution than renegociating everything for years to achieve ... er, what exactly ? Because it is not that clear.
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Brexit
Jun 28, 2016 21:55:01 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Jun 28, 2016 21:55:01 GMT
Dennis Skinner for PM! (The beast of Bolsover) He'd soon sort 'em out.
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Brexit
Jun 29, 2016 0:53:56 GMT
Post by questa on Jun 29, 2016 0:53:56 GMT
I don't know how to do this but if you can watch it, it is pure Gold
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Brexit
Jun 29, 2016 2:03:42 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 2:03:42 GMT
Yes, I posted this on the previous page, questa. I scooped you!
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Brexit
Jun 29, 2016 3:44:32 GMT
Post by questa on Jun 29, 2016 3:44:32 GMT
Oh Dear, my senility is setting in. I have been looking at so many posts on so many places lately . I knew I had seen it somewhere so dug it up from You Tube and posted it here. I owe you a drink for scooping me.
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Brexit
Jun 29, 2016 3:57:17 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 3:57:17 GMT
I think I'd like a gin and tonic tonight, questa. I'll bring the snacks!
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Brexit
Jun 29, 2016 5:02:24 GMT
Post by questa on Jun 29, 2016 5:02:24 GMT
South Australia produces many of the best wines in the world...and you want a G&T???
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Brexit
Jun 29, 2016 6:55:36 GMT
Post by mossie on Jun 29, 2016 6:55:36 GMT
Go Mark, and I would equip Tom Watson with knuckledusters and send him in as well as backup
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Brexit
Jun 29, 2016 7:18:22 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Jun 29, 2016 7:18:22 GMT
We know that violence never solves anything. I'd make an exception with politicians though.
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Brexit
Jun 29, 2016 10:36:43 GMT
Post by mickthecactus on Jun 29, 2016 10:36:43 GMT
I wonder how a French referendum would end up?
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Brexit
Jun 29, 2016 11:04:52 GMT
Post by questa on Jun 29, 2016 11:04:52 GMT
Pistols at dawn or storm the Bastille. depending on numbers.
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Brexit
Jun 29, 2016 11:36:27 GMT
Post by mossie on Jun 29, 2016 11:36:27 GMT
I guess Frexit would win easier than Brexit did. How about it Kerouac.
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Brexit
Jun 29, 2016 12:27:24 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 12:27:24 GMT
They've already taken several polls. 45% of the French want to remain in the EU, 33% want to leave and 22% are not saying. The vast majority of people who want France to leave the EU support the National Front.
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Brexit
Jun 29, 2016 13:01:45 GMT
Post by mickthecactus on Jun 29, 2016 13:01:45 GMT
National Front must be a pretty big party then? Is that Marine Le Pen?
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Brexit
Jun 29, 2016 14:14:57 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 14:14:57 GMT
Yes. The Front National is now getting about a third of the vote nationally. This means almost 50% in certain regions but under 10% in Paris. Paris and London (and New York) are despised by their respective countries for the same reason -- too international, too open to foreigners, too rich, too educated. Most countries apparently want to live at the lowest common denominator.
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Brexit
Jun 29, 2016 16:07:30 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 16:07:30 GMT
Mark, I'm trying to understand, really I am, but why didn't you check these things out before you voted? I find it baffling.
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Brexit
Jun 29, 2016 16:45:14 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 16:45:14 GMT
Well, we already know that the pension has gone down 10% for the moment.
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Brexit
Jun 29, 2016 20:57:41 GMT
Post by whatagain on Jun 29, 2016 20:57:41 GMT
I've got good friends who vote FN. So I have personal problem with people voting strangely. But it is amazing that although my friends are nice and educated, they really don't know what FN is saying. When I told them that Marine wants to leave Europe, they said, 'yes, so ?' And I answered - did you look at her economical program ? It is a joke. I drew blank looks. Then I got more rosé wine. So we are still friends.
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Brexit
Jun 29, 2016 21:05:58 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Jun 29, 2016 21:05:58 GMT
The question was, do I vote for selfish reasons, i.e. the only things that directly affect me, or do I vote for what I believe?
I knew full well before that there would be negative repercussions regarding me individually and my situation (and more so than the majority), but nevertheless, my beliefs, were strong enough to overcome my reservations.
The last line I wrote was more in humour than reality. I don't need to 'check' as the details of those things are in flux anyway and won't be apparent for a long time, nor settle down. I know and I knew, or at least could make an educated guess, that the crap would hit the fan and those things would be affected.
And yet, it wouldn't and didn't stop me doing what I knew in myself what was (in my opinion) right. I'm not as green as I'm cabbage looking.
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Brexit
Jun 29, 2016 21:27:37 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 21:27:37 GMT
Thanks, I now understand. Good luck, and I hope that things work in your favour.
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Brexit
Jun 30, 2016 0:22:28 GMT
Post by questa on Jun 30, 2016 0:22:28 GMT
Right now we are in the throes of History, with a capital H. The reverberations will, to some extent, affect the history of every country.
If you have children or grandchildren over about 10 years old, tell them the story and let them see TV coverage of "people being angry" or "the leaders trying to make plans."
Involve them in your thoughts of this time because they will be learning it in History later on and their memories will be more vivid than words written in books.
My dad did this with me about the events in the 1950s (I specially remember the battle of Dien Bien Phu in Vietnam) and I did it with my kids about the Australian Government being dismissed by skulduggery in 1975.
We live in interesting times.
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Brexit
Jun 30, 2016 13:12:42 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2016 13:12:42 GMT
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Brexit
Jun 30, 2016 14:23:49 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2016 14:23:49 GMT
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Brexit
Jun 30, 2016 15:57:05 GMT
Post by lagatta on Jun 30, 2016 15:57:05 GMT
Questa, I'm also very worried about this, and about bombastic demagogues like Farage, Trump and Le Pen (yes, even the daughter with her "cleaned-up" language).
It makes me sick to see people's homes, shops and places of worship bombed. Do these people not realize that they are acting like Daesh, on a smaller scale?
Not to say any hatred is "worse" than any other, but I find it very strange that Poles would be such targets. They are certainly "white", and most are Catholic (practising or lapsed) and usually have a reputation as hard workers. Their food isn't even particularly "foreign" compared to British food.
I often shop at a nearby Moroccan Halal butcher's here not out of any religious obligation (I'm a 2nd generation lapsed Catholic, and an atheist) but just because they have good quality poultry and meat at a reasonable price, locally produced. Oh, there is another good butcher's at the market called Porc meilleur where I can get that non-halal and non-kosher producct...
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Brexit
Jun 30, 2016 20:00:26 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2016 20:00:26 GMT
Questa, lagatta, I believe that we were born in the quite peaceful, post-war bubble. I'm afraid the events of the past, say, ten years wouldn't suprise most of our ancestors. The world has always been such. Now we just have the internet to freak us out.
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Brexit
Jul 1, 2016 3:04:42 GMT
Post by questa on Jul 1, 2016 3:04:42 GMT
Lizzy, I agree. There probably has never been a time when some group was not getting victimised. In Oz in the 40-50s, the Irish Catholics held a lot of power through Unions and some outspoken Bishops and an Archbishop who thundered from the pulpit how the Catholics had to vote. After WW2 the floods of immigrants from Europe led to Proddies and Micks joining forces to pick on the newcomers. Nothing serious though it would be harassment by today's laws. By the 60s there were so many different groups that had settled here who had their own enmities they had carried from their original countries. Serb/Croatian football matches were for settling old scores. So it goes, each group picks on the group before and so blends into the general culture. Now there are many penalties for saying or doing anything that someone, somewhere might say they take offence to. This over-reaction has resulted in a wave of anti-immigration, anti-refugees, anti-Muslim groups that are now behaving like those in UK. They are thugs and I hope the police and courts are funded well to get rid of them.
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