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Post by tod2 on Jul 15, 2016 7:41:26 GMT
It is absolutely horrible. A vicious act by yet another terrorist against his own country.
The saddest part of this attack is the innocent little children who lost their lives.
SKY News kind of blamed it on Nicolas Sarkozy for dropping the Intelligence Gathering Operation in 2008.
Well, Francois Hollande could have put it back in place long ago - especially after two major terrorist attacks in January and then again in November.
I, like others, am waiting to hear how the truck driver was able to access the promenade with such ease.
What another sad sad time for France.
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Post by onlyMark on Jul 15, 2016 10:12:35 GMT
I've never quite followed the logic of killing innocent people to further your cause.
I suppose it boils down to their twisted idea of what an 'innocent' is.
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Post by bjd on Jul 15, 2016 10:39:16 GMT
I don't think anyone capable of driving a huge truck into a crowd of people even thinks in terms of "innocent" and "guilty". I would imagine that in their twisted minds, everyone outside those to whom they think they belong is guilty.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2016 12:45:25 GMT
In any case it is a clear that it was an attack against France and not any specific group since there were numerous Muslims in the crowd. Guilty of living in France, I suppose.
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Post by rikita on Jul 15, 2016 12:57:03 GMT
somehow i find this attack especially sad and scary (the others are too, of course, just hearing about this has shocked me even more), maybe because i could imagine myself being there, or because there were a lot of children there ...
as to the motivation of attackers - i agree with bjd that they don't even think of it in categories of innocent and guilty (or if they do, then the ones killed that are innocent are just necessary martyrs or soemthing like that), it's not about who specifically they kill, the randomness is part of the idea of wanting to increase hatred and fear.
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Post by mossie on Jul 15, 2016 14:45:52 GMT
It is terrorism, plain and simple. But this is about the only method of attack open to them. We need stronger intelligence and a determination to root these extremists out which may mean trampling on some sensitivities.
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Post by lagatta on Jul 15, 2016 16:37:30 GMT
The problem with "trampling on some sensitivities" is that it can encourage jihadi recruitment among disaffected young people. One of the "jihadis" here was not of Muslim background at all; he was a bog-standard francophone Québécois (who liked beer and parties) who somehow thought those losers were cool and who wound up killing a Canadian soldier near a military base by running him over with his car.
Obviously it takes better intelligence but also destroying the perceived "coolness" of those arseholes.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2016 17:24:33 GMT
Ignorant social media can be so incredibly toxic. imageshack.com/a/img921/1454/IaBujw.jpgAs for the perpetrator of this massacre, it is a little early to affirm that it is a case of Islamic extremism. The investigation has just started, and so far it appears that the person was not at all religious but he was unhappy and tormented about his family. We will learn much much more in the coming days, all the way down to his favourite breakfast cereal. |
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Post by rikita on Jul 15, 2016 22:57:26 GMT
my impression is that cases like this (though as kerouac says we don't know enough yet to know, really) make the difference between terrorism and amok kind of blurred. whatever they are, this type of event is horrible.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2016 6:23:15 GMT
None of this has been "validated" by the authorities yet, but acquaintances and neighbours of the man have delivered all sorts of information: He was very angry with his ex-wife; he was angry with his family in Tunisia. He has never returned there since he arrived in France 10 years ago. He went to a gym regularly and was quite a ladies' man. He never went to a mosque, drank alcohol, ate pork. He enjoyed salsa dancing.
So he does not sound like an Islamic radical at all so far. Looks like we will be following the lunatic path, with investigators trying to discover what made him snap. Not that it will necessarily make things better.
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Post by lagatta on Jul 16, 2016 9:15:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2016 10:54:36 GMT
I don't know if wife beating and road rage (they fought over a parking space) often lead to mass murder of strangers, but some of his family and 'friends' are saying that one of his motives for moving to France was to be able to drink alcohol at will and ignore ramadan.
Meanwhile, opposition politicians are proving a multitude of solutions to show how this wouldn't have happened if they were in power.
Henri Guaino (a leader in Sarkozy's party LR): "A soldier at each end of the promenade armed with a rocket launcher could easily have stopped any truck."
Jacques Myard (also LR and anti EU): "Deport all binationals with Islamic leanings."
Alain Juppé (former PM and front runner in the next elections): "If all necessary measures had been taken, this wouldn't have happened."
François Fillon (former PM and rival of the above): "Some of us were against the fan zones during the Euro matches because we feared a terrorist attack. It happened one week later, so we were right and the fireworks should never have been organised."
Christian Estrosi (former mayor of Nice): "Hollande announced the upcoming end of the state of emergency in France and that's what provoked the attack."
Their remarks are so useful.
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Post by lagatta on Jul 16, 2016 15:08:28 GMT
Especially since the bastard didn't have any "Islamic leanings", at least until he went bezerk. Of course Daesh are picking up on it, but they would, wouldn't they?
No, people like that don't usually kill a great number of strangers, but they often kill their families before suicide.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2016 17:55:53 GMT
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Post by lagatta on Jul 16, 2016 20:02:39 GMT
Another kind of tribute, in the Guardian. Short bios and photos of the victims as their names and life stories come to light (it has been updated several times). But some are small children, which cannot help but be upsetting: www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/15/who-were-the-nice-attack-victims-bastille-day-deadThere will be a memorial rally here in Montréal this evening, but I don't think I'm going, I'm too upset about everything from this to my cat's demise and don't want to break down and cry. |
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Post by tod2 on Jul 18, 2016 17:23:13 GMT
So sorry Lagatta about your kitty. Crying buckets always feels sooo much better afterwards.
Don't be afraid to let it all hang out, - as they say. I loved my pussycat so much I made sure I went ( all alone) to pick up his body from the vet. I have him here in his beautiful garden.
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Post by lagatta on Jul 18, 2016 19:48:08 GMT
Well, I live in a housing coop, so I couldn't impose that on my neighbours, although some dearly love cats. There is always one who hates them and considers them a bother, even dead and buried!
I have a memorial spot in my flat, where he died (peacefully, with me). And... I have a new little cat, at least provisionally. But I don't want to hijack this thread more.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 3:25:31 GMT
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Post by lagatta on Jul 19, 2016 9:29:40 GMT
Just speculating, but it sounds as if he might have been a bit of a rent boy as well.
Beating up one's mother-in-law sounds counter to behavioural codes in Mediterranean patriarchal societies (whatever the prevailing religion).
But isn't the "ultraviolence" of Daesh part of its appeal to messed up young men? Who really knows?
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Post by whatagain on Jul 19, 2016 14:03:45 GMT
Estrosi has forgotten that he said just after the attack in november in Paris that such an attack could not have happened in Nice, due to surveilance equipment present in Nice.
Of course some people remember now...
L'élu, baptisé "champion de la sécurité" par certains médias, déclarait alors que "si Paris avait été équipé du même matériel [de vidéosurveillance, NDLR] que nous, les frères Kouachi n'auraient pas passé trois carrefours sans être repérés."
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