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Post by rikita on Nov 18, 2016 0:10:38 GMT
Many do good rikita, for sure, but why are celebrities always now in the news? They are famous for being famous, that is all and it isn't the middle aged and older people who have made that culture like it is, is it? Being offended by proxy is where person A says something about person B. Person B may or may not find it offensive, but that doesn't seem to matter anymore because person C, who has nothing to do with it at all, will say it is offensive and will be offended on behalf of person B even though it was not aimed at them nor is anything about them. It may sound a good thing and protective, but as with this and political correctness, it has diversified into the realms of ridiculousness. Imagine person A saying something about person B. Person B doesn't find this offensive, but person C thinks it is and will protest/prosecute about it. This appears to happen all too often and nobody seems to ask person B if they were bothered. The steamroller starts solely because person C, who is not connected nor has anything to do with it, says in their opinion it is offensive. There are too many person C's throwing their weight about. Safe spaces - initially a good idea until it became ridiculous. A safe space is - "A place where anyone can relax and be fully self-expressed, without fear of being made to feel uncomfortable, unwelcome or challenged on account of biological sex, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, cultural background, age, or physical or mental ability; a place where the rules guard each person's self-respect, dignity and feelings and strongly encourage everyone to respect others." Seems ok until, for example, at Brown University a female speaker was to appear and talk but some of her views were controversial so the University set up a 'safe space' - "The room was equipped with cookies, coloring books, bubbles, Play-Doh, calming music, pillows, blankets and a video of frolicking puppies, as well as students and staff members trained to deal with trauma." Further as a result of Trump winning - "The University of Michigan Law School announced a ”post-election self-care” event with “food" and "play,” including “coloring sheets, play dough (sic), positive card-making, Legos and bubbles with your fellow law students.” Yale University had a 'group scream'. "At Tufts, the university offered arts and crafts, while the University of Kansas reminded students that there were plenty of “therapy dogs” available. At other schools, exams were canceled and professors expressed their sympathy to traumatized students." There are also people saying Trump's win was on a par with 9/11. They do not have their feet on the ground is for me a polite way to put it. The win rubbed up a lot of people the wrong way, but likening it to a terrorist attack in New York where 3000 people died and twice that number were injured is utter fantasy. And......... don't start me on what are now being called "Trigger warnings". FFS. Rikita, you are a sensible person, also your nationality promotes sensibility (generally), although there may be some overlap, I think your culture is often far different to that of those in the USA. I have lived in both countries and experienced it. One indicator is the attitude to feminism in your country as opposed to the USA (and I have mentioned this before). If you were a doctor and your car parking space outside your surgery said "Ärztin" would you be bothered that it identified you as female? Maybe, maybe not, but try that in the USA and I bet people would be out on the streets protesting (and most would be offended by proxy). not sure if the increase of celebrities in the media has all to do with young people or maybe more with a general change of how media works, how it has to sell itself these days. and there used to be all those magazines about different royals from different countries geared at older women, for example, so it is nothing new to be interested in gossip ... these days media have to constantly find new headlines though in order to survive, and i suppose there celebrity news are often easier than serious political news. i would suppose there are cases where there is exaggerated offendedness (and there probably have been different kinds of exaggerated offendedness at other times, like because someone went outside in too short a skirt or something), but i think a certain awareness that even things that do not concern me personally can be offensive is not bad, either. sometimes the offended party might not be aware of the ill effects because they are too used to being called something bad and thus it has influenced their self image - in that case, someone else telling them they don't think it is right they are being called that, might be a good thing. sure, there are also cases where it is wrong and exaggerated, or where a rash remark is turned into a big deal and the resulting shitstorm ruins people's lives. again, i suppose the way information travels these days plays a role in that, not sure if people in the past would have handled it differently or not. never encountered the type of safe spaces you describe, so maybe that is an american thing, or maybe i am out of the loop there ... as for your example with the doctor sign (and here i am speaking only of that specific example) there is of course also a difference in language between german and english - in germany, some female doctors might rather dislike it being called "arzt", because they are an "ärztin". in english, there is really just that one word, "doctor", so in order to identify someone as a female doctor i suppose you would have to use the word "female" or "woman", which would make it sound quite strange, like you are pointing out something abnormal. in germany, on the other hand, since we have female forms for almost all professions, some people dislike it when the male form is used as the standard ... i suppose you have encountred the form of writing "ÄrztInnen" in plural, to include both ... and of course most female doctors would never say about themselves "ich bin arzt", they'd say "ich bin ärztin")
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Post by lagatta on Nov 18, 2016 0:27:11 GMT
Yes, that is a simple grammatical difference. Even though English and German are both West Germanic languages (along with Dutch, and many lesser-spoken languages and dialiects) English doesn't usually have gendered forms of address. In French we definitely have such forms and the women I know in Québec, France, Belgium, Switzerland and elsewhere do prefer to be addressed by the feminine form, though there are still some old-fashioned speakers in francophone countries who prefer the masculine...
I've never heard of such extreme and infantile forms of "safe spaces"; anytime I've heard the term it simply referred to a person of colour, woman or lgbt person having a refuge from racism and sexism. Weird stuff exists everywhere, though most of us haven't actually encountered it.
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Post by bjd on Nov 18, 2016 7:01:38 GMT
I have heard of these "safe spaces" being set up in some American colleges and universities. My reaction is similar to Mark's. Not that it's good that insults should be acceptable, of course not. But when young people are becoming adults but are coddled so that their feelings are not hurt by real or imagined slights does not prepare them for being out in the world.
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Post by bjd on Nov 18, 2016 7:22:31 GMT
Just looking at news sites this morning -- why is it all about Trump already? He won't be sworn in for 2 more months.
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Post by rikita on Nov 18, 2016 8:27:54 GMT
as i said, i don't know that kind of safe spaces - but the part about being coddled would depend on the amount of insults, i suppose. theoretically, if someone felt threatened most of the time, this might be less about being coddled and more about needing a moment to breathe, every now and then ... not sure colouring-books and play-doh are necessary, but a place where you can be just what you are, and no one is allowed to look at you weirdly, could help facing real life again. one would hope that society can provide such places without having to create designated safe places, but maybe in some places it can't ...
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Post by chexbres on Nov 18, 2016 17:11:03 GMT
Just as an aside - I resent Obama's having to apologize for Trump's nonsense, when he should really be enjoying taking a pretty well-deserved victory lap around the world.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2016 18:07:45 GMT
Unfortunately, he pretty much had his hands tied for 8 years so there isn't all that much "victory" to celebrate except -- and this is very important -- an improved image of the United States which has now been demolished in a flash.
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Post by chexbres on Nov 18, 2016 20:05:13 GMT
So... Trump welcomed the Prime Minister of Japan, and his daughter Ivanka was present during the entire meeting. Aside from the public hue and cry over conflict of interests and blind trusts, etc, it does appear that Trump is incapable of appearing in public without a lovely young piece of ass woman sitting nearby.
Since Ivanka doesn't speak fluent Japanese, and wasn't there to translate, it would appear that her presence at the meeting puts her in the same position as an ordinary potted plant - but with jewelry.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2016 7:50:56 GMT
That was beautiful, chexbres.
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Post by chexbres on Nov 19, 2016 8:08:20 GMT
This just in... Trump managed to settle (without appearing in court and without admitting any wrongdoing) the suit against Trump University. Some people will get "about half" the money they invested, others "might get more". Too bad, because Trump managed to wiggle out of being convicted of "high crimes and misdemeanors" and impeachment.
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Post by mossie on Nov 19, 2016 14:50:19 GMT
Money can buy anything.
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 19, 2016 15:13:33 GMT
Apparently it cannot buy intelligence. I desperately want to see Trump prevented from taking office and would have been thrilled had he been convicted of something. However, it's hard to feel any sympathy for the "victims" of Trump University. Did these people actually think an expensive seminar series was the same thing as a real university? This is from the Wikipedia article on Trump University: The company offered courses in real estate, asset management, entrepreneurship, and wealth creation. The organization was not an accredited university or college. It did not confer college credit, grant degrees, or grade its students. ... Trump University was also the subject of two class action lawsuits in federal court. The lawsuits centered around allegations that Trump University defrauded its students by using misleading marketing practices and engaging in aggressive sales tactics.Uh, one does not need to have attended a real university to discern that the allegations cover a very gray area, or that consumers need to take responsibility for their decisions. So actually Trump did not "wiggle out" of anything. Rather, he was protected by the law, as theoretically we all are. True, he paid to make the problem go away, but accepting the settlement was the decision of the plaintiffs. The really cruel irony is that those very laws to protect him and all other citizens are in grave jeopardy the minute he places his pudgy hand on the Bible to accept the highest office in the US.
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Post by onlyMark on Nov 19, 2016 19:31:32 GMT
The Beatles would disagree.
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Post by chexbres on Nov 19, 2016 20:32:14 GMT
Thanksgiving - when native Americans fed undocumented illegal aliens a nice dinner.
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LouisXIV
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Post by LouisXIV on Nov 20, 2016 15:50:00 GMT
"Thanksgiving - when native Americans fed undocumented illegal aliens a nice dinner."
So often we hear expression "Rule of Law" and it is frequently said by our politicians. For a number of decades that has been laws on the books concerning immigration and if our State and Federal governments had just done their jobs and enforced the laws already on the books we could be feeding these "nice" Thanksgiving dinners to others that are also in need of a good meal.
If some are trying to put a "guilt" feeling on someone, it should be on the politicians who have not been doing their jobs for decades and maybe some of the citizens for allowing them to allowed them to not do their jobs in enforcing the laws.
Yes we have a problem, now someone has to do the dirty job of correcting it and the cost of correcting it is going to many billions of dollars that this country in all reality does not have and should be used to reduce the current national debt that is currently a financial joke and a very expensive drain on the American tax payers.
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Post by whatagain on Nov 20, 2016 20:35:13 GMT
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost, to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door !"
Someone should organize a visit of the statue of the Liberty for Mr Trump to discover thes (last) verses of the 'colossus'.
But the writer is a woman - so he will not care, will he ?
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Post by chexbres on Nov 20, 2016 20:49:58 GMT
There is no easy solution to any country's immigration problem. There are suddenly too many people, too few resources - apparently, nobody saw this coming. Internment didn't work. Gas chambers worked, for a little while. Lynching was too slow. Not enough people drowning.
Having to jump through hoops to retain my French visa has made me appreciate how the system can work - when it was set up properly to begin with, decades ago. However, nothing can be accomplished overnight. It is an impossibility to state that you can just wipe the slate clean or "just phase it out" while immigrants (legal or not) fall through the cracks and can't work, can't find housing or medical care and can't go home again... Who's going to foot the bill for the taxes to pay for these services?
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LouisXIV
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Post by LouisXIV on Nov 21, 2016 1:04:24 GMT
Yes I agree it is a complicated problem and the words from the Statue of Liberty are nice words, BUT there comes a point where people and countries of this world have to take responsibility for themselves and solve some of their own problems.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 1:53:16 GMT
Immigration is the direct consequence of colonization, like it or not.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 2:24:26 GMT
So, will someone please tell me how a misdemeanor charge from 2000 prevents me from travelling across the North American border into Canada where the same legal charge, a felony, allows a Canadian citizen to cross the border into the US with no restriction?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 6:30:42 GMT
Without specifics, casi, can't answer your question.
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Post by patricklondon on Nov 21, 2016 6:41:35 GMT
I'd imagine it might have something to do with the fact that the two countries are independent and decide separately their own criteria for admission and procedures/staffing/finance for enforcement? My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam"
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Post by lagatta on Nov 21, 2016 12:43:51 GMT
I know quite a few people here who can't travel to the US for things such as being arrested at a demonstration (and no, not vandalizing anything). It seems quite arbitrary. We don't actually have the "right" to travel to a country of which we aren't a citizen, unless there are agreements to that effect.
One weird thing will be the case of the many people who were arrested for possession of small amounts of marijuana - what will happen when it is finally legalized?
As for migration issues, I don't think they can be solved by any given country, whether it is exporting or receiving migrants, or both.
Here in Québec, 100 years ago, large numbers of people - entire villages - moved to New England to work in the mills. At first before I knew his origins, I thought our "Kerouac" was one of those people, while his "Franco-American" origins were very different. At the same time, many migrants from Southern and Eastern Europe were arriving here.
Trump's stuff about Mexicans is at least a decade out of date - the net migration balance is from the US towards Mexico now. Very few of the migrant farm workers from Mexico and even from poorer Central American countries up in Canada have the intention of remaining, even if they could legally do so. Their family migration project is to remit as much as possible to their families, to improve their standard of living back home (better home, water and electricity, appliances, a truck, tractor etc) and to ensure the continuing education of their children. Often these strategies are very successful nowadays.
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Post by whatagain on Nov 21, 2016 19:19:14 GMT
Immigration is a world global problem. And cannot be solved case by case. Who can in his right mind forbid somebody from another country to seek better living conditions for himselfs or his children than what he finds 'home' ? So yes, unless we find a way that makes everybody happy or at least not wanting to depart ...
I hear some people here saying that we are stupid to stay in Belgium and we should go to Australia or Chile where there is good weather and no unenplpyment. Should I leave ? Should I say to my children to leave ? And we are supposed to live in a great country....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 19:50:23 GMT
One weird thing will be the case of the many people who were arrested for possession of small amounts of marijuana - what will happen when it is finally legalized? As far as I know, all those poor black people who were thrown in jail in Washington state are still in there, even after legalisation.
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Post by mickthecactus on Nov 22, 2016 10:00:32 GMT
The Trumpeter seems to be very fond of using the word rape.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 12:32:25 GMT
That's because it's a manly, strong word like him.
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Post by lagatta on Nov 22, 2016 16:56:22 GMT
Here's a great short from Mexico:
M.A.M.O.N. Latinos vs Donald Trump
M.A.M.O.N. (Monitor Against Mexicans Over Nationwide) is a satirical fantasy sci-fi shortfilm that explores with black humor and lots of VFX the outrageous consequences of Donald Trump's plan of banning immigration and building an enormous wall on the Mexico - US border.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 17:26:45 GMT
Today, I learned of what now is the third instance of major discord and estrangement of family members with each other being on opposite poles of political sentiment and leanings.
I'm sure it's happening all over the place but, these are personal friends, some with young children and no one willing to give way or out and out refusing to have anything to do with the relative (and I'm sure friends as well but this specifically involves immediate family members) involved.
Family Thanksgiving plans and likely Christmas as well have been canceled between grandparents and their grandchildren etc. etc.
It saddens me so as I have had to serve as an ear to a couple of these people and I really don't know what to tell them.
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Post by lagatta on Nov 22, 2016 19:57:56 GMT
Probably friends as well, but friends are more likely to hold the same key social and political beliefs, unless they decided earlier on "not to talk about it". Families are more likely to have gone separate ways and usually agree on "no politics or religion at the dinner table".
It is probably better that they refrain from seeing each other over the holidays - which will begin very soon in the US - than getting into fights that could involve not only drink but also firearms...
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