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Post by kerouac2 on Jun 29, 2020 15:22:54 GMT
The United States seems to be a melting pot that never actually melted. Many of the various elements continue to bicker and have conflictual agendas. It is like eating a chocolate mousse that is still full of lumps.
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Post by mickthecactus on Jun 29, 2020 15:47:38 GMT
That’s an awful story casi. I’m so sorry.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 29, 2020 16:21:45 GMT
Every generation has its own stories and no one of us should ever dismiss one generation over another for having done their part and another not. Thank you, Casimira. You said that succinctly and perfectly summed up my outrage about pointless competition over which generation was better. Of course I've known about your brother for decades, but never in such tragic detail, so I know the effort telling about this now must have cost you. That was not a disruption nor a rant, but an excellent counter to Kerouac's facile assumption that Vietnam and the draft was something not quite real to "ladies". The year I was born would have made me prime draftable cannon fodder were it not for my sex. The brother born the year after me lucked out with his draft lottery number and my other brother, born in 1958, could have been called up for that war, had it not ended right after he turned seventeen. So yes, "ladies" agonized over brothers, sons, nephews, grandsons, boyfriends, etc., etc. That was the experience of my lucky family, but like all families at that time, it waited and worried over what could happen. Getting killed in Vietnam was a real threat for boys of that era, but let's not dismiss nor turn into a competition the special agony that Casimira's mother and many others lived with for decades afterward.
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Post by htmb on Jun 29, 2020 16:48:58 GMT
We all have our stories, our grief, our trials, no matter what generation or background we’re from. Thank you, Casimira for articulating your story so effectively. What a tragedy for your family. I’m very sorry. What we all know is that it is difficult for each and every one of us at the moment, no matter our location or our age.
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Post by mossie on Jun 29, 2020 18:47:18 GMT
I can only echo Htmb. Casimira that must have been hard for you then and hard now to write it up here.
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Post by lugg on Jun 29, 2020 19:48:04 GMT
I really don't know enough about this time to make an articulate comment but your post Casimira has helped me to understand better. Thank you
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Post by Kimby on Jun 29, 2020 20:20:26 GMT
Thank you for sharing your family’s sad story, casi.
The Vietnam years were certainly hard on this country and her inhabitants, some more than others. My HS boyfriend knew that going to Vietnam would be the end of him, so he enlisted in the National Guard before the draft lottery, a 6 year commitment to avoid the possibility of being drafted for two years.
Unfortunately, new guardsmen had to attend regular army boot camp before entering reserve status, and his 6 weeks at Fort Leonard Wood, Kansas, broke his gentle spirit and got him using drugs to cope. He was never the same after that, and didn’t even last his 6 year commitment, being diagnosed as bipolar and medically discharged. He’s had 3 failed marriages and never really recovered. Very sad.
While I made a mistake in omitting a generation between the Greatest Generation and their children, the Baby Boomers, my point about not dismissing Vietnam - and the protests against it - still stands.
But beyond convincing America’s politicians to get us out of Vietnam, the Boomers’ greatest contribution in my mind was the Environmental Movement, and all the really good laws that were passed in the 70’s.
Laws that Trump sadly is doing his best to gut....
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Post by questa on Jun 30, 2020 0:42:20 GMT
Casi, courage comes in many forms, and the courage you have shown in sharing your sad story is as strong as any other courageous act. The military get the medals and memorials but the families get the lifetime of pain.
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Post by fumobici on Jun 30, 2020 1:38:30 GMT
It always struck me as odd to think of people in general as belonging to discrete "generations". Wherever you draw the lines, they will almost certainly be arbitrary and artificial.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 30, 2020 4:03:10 GMT
I agree, Fumobici. I usually say age group instead, in an attempt to be more precise because, really, it seems as though a person in another generation should be old enough to be your parent or grandparent or young enough to be your child or grandchild. It shocked me the first time I found out how long the period considered to be the baby boomer generation is: 1946 to 1964. That means my little brother (10 years younger) and sister (11 years younger) are the same "generation" as I. That's just not right. It should be based on something solid, like what music you remember from high school and college.
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Post by Kimby on Jun 30, 2020 4:44:08 GMT
Boomers are parents of Millennials. What’s in-between? Generation x? And after Milennials? GenZ? And what will they do now that they’ve run out of letters? Like hurricanes, maybe: go to alpha, beta, delta, gamma...?
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 30, 2020 4:53:34 GMT
No, it is Generation X that came after Boomers.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 30, 2020 4:56:42 GMT
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Post by Kimby on Jun 30, 2020 5:00:54 GMT
No, it is Generation X that came after Boomers. Isn’t that what I said?
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Post by casimira on Jun 30, 2020 5:04:15 GMT
I rarely if ever post in this thread.
Now I know why. I really don't think I'm going to sleep very well tonight.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 30, 2020 5:11:05 GMT
No, it is Generation X that came after Boomers. Isn’t that what I said? I should have said that Boomers are the parents of Generation X. Maybe they could be parents of millennials as well, because of how long these generational designations are.
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Post by Kimby on Jun 30, 2020 5:12:34 GMT
My boomer sister is parent to my millennial niece.
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Post by casimira on Jun 30, 2020 5:23:55 GMT
Bixa, wasn't it your brother J* that one time said "get a generation" with reference to some era during the time of what, I don't recall. I just remember it being very funny. He always was able to make me laugh the few times we ever conversed. You and he both got your mother's sharp wit.
* the older brother J
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 30, 2020 5:32:04 GMT
Yes ~ that always cracked me up, too. It was back when tie-dye & fake dreads on white kids and all that stuff made a comeback -- the nineties, maybe? We'd pass some nouveau hippie on the street & J would say under his breath, "Get a generation!"
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Post by casimira on Jun 30, 2020 5:47:39 GMT
That was it!
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Post by lagatta on Jun 30, 2020 9:31:59 GMT
That is why historians and social scientists prefer to speak of "cohorts" and indeed it is a matter of shared experience.
Generational analysis has become extremely stereotyped. The Trumpian ijuts in their decked-out golf carts also come from a particular social class (they seem moneyed to be able to live in that fancy retirement village, but also most boorish, and all I saw were white, not Black, "Latino" or any other visible minority. That "analysis" tends to leave out race, class, sex, urban vs rural, educational attainment etc.
Sorry for those here who have suffered by traumatic and then mostly untreated traumatic experiences of loved ones and their lasting, and sometimes fatal effects.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 30, 2020 16:38:17 GMT
As I drifted off to sleep last night I remembered the correct quote, which was: "Get a decade!" Really excellent summation, LaGattta ~ thanks!
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Post by kerouac2 on Jun 30, 2020 17:22:15 GMT
We were taught to think in terms of generations. I think that younger, uh, generations will come up with more appropriate terms. The Covid kids will probably have some ideas.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 30, 2020 17:25:27 GMT
I wonder if Gertrude Stein's designation of the Lost Generation started the idea of naming generations (or cohorts or age groups).
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Post by kerouac2 on Jun 30, 2020 17:28:22 GMT
The reason that I think that "generation" will fade away is because now the various groups seem to appear in phases that don't even last 5 years.
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Post by questa on Jul 1, 2020 4:15:34 GMT
I get the gut feeling that a cohort doesn't really get a name unless there is a fairly major disaster or event that separates the pre- or post event rather decisively. Also the name may only be in some locations but not others. eg... The Great War and 1st lot of "Post war Babies" led to "The Bright Young Things" and "Flappers" "The Depression" left us with "Post Depression" images and the constant reminders to not waste anything. The naming of cohorts seems to have caught on following the return of the men from WW2 when there was a huge "boom" in the birth rate. This name defined a particular group and still lasts. Millennials I think are those born around the Y2K era and I don't give credence to any others until we get to coronavirus, already dubbed The Corona-kids. To my mind the Gen X and Gen Y don't differ enough to have an era named for them. I will go along with "Post Katrina" and defining events like that. Of course this is just my rambling, nothing learn-ed.
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Post by kerouac2 on Jul 1, 2020 4:48:50 GMT
To my mind the Gen X and Gen Y don't differ enough to have an era named for them. I think a lot of it is based on the fine points of their social media use, something which I do not master, except for knowing that Facebook and Twitter are now for old people, Instagram users are getting their first white hairs, Snapchat is already out of fashion, Tiktok and the other Chinese sites are the wave of the future, and most of the other 60 social media platforms are beyond my comprehension.
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Post by questa on Jul 1, 2020 9:08:29 GMT
Thank you, O wise one, for clarifying the mysterious sub cultures that lurk in plain sight around us. In my youth there were only two...boys and girls. Any more were more than we could handle. Of course I am devastated...I am just getting the hang of Facebook!
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Post by mossie on Jul 1, 2020 9:35:49 GMT
What's Facebook and Twitter? Does this mean that I am not old.
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Post by kerouac2 on Jul 1, 2020 22:21:31 GMT
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