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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2016 21:35:02 GMT
Group report created by kerouac2 (who due to a glitch is the "Deleted" in this presentation) I have a major confession to make before I begin to post pictures. I have never had an aversion to Mexico, but I will readily confess that I did not have a great interest in it before my trip there a few weeks ago. I looked at all of Bixa's threads over the years, as I suppose that most of you did, and thought "that's kind of interesting" but also "too many marigolds" or perhaps "that's enough folklore" or even "I don't need to see any more churches" and other such things. Frankly, I completely understand that people have thought the same thing about many of my Paris and France reports (and lots of other places, too). There are places that we already know interest us and we suck up everything that we can possibly see about them, and then there are all of those other places about which we try to be "polite" just like when some of us were subjected to slide shows in olden times. Bixaorellana's invitation to come and see Mexico for myself was a definite wake up call to "shit or get off the pot" as Americans say with great eloquence. The fact that she was willing to meet me (and Htmb) in Mexico City, show us around and then take us to Puebla before the immense generosity of housing us in Oaxaca was just impossible to turn down. Could any of you turn down such an offer. Yes, I suppose, if you are very stupid, but I don't think that many of you are. By now, you have seen the reports about Mexico City and Xochimilco (although a major one about the archeological museum is still to come), and you have probably seen more than you think you ever want to see about Oaxaca (but if you ever go there, you will discover that there is so much more to see). I understand the whole thing about "too much" but there is always time to go back and see some of it later. If you ever get the chance to make such a trip yourselves -- and there is always the chance that Bixa will be willing to welcome you -- it will all become clear and perhaps then these reports will not bore you anymore. At the moment, I will kneel and beg your indulgence to take a look at Puebla, which was designated a Unesco World Heritage Site in 1987. Bixa has made a number of reports about it already, which most of us saw and forgot (but you'll want to see them again!), but please, I beg you, take another look at Puebla this year. You won't regret it. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2016 21:46:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2016 23:32:18 GMT
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Post by lagatta on Nov 17, 2016 2:02:37 GMT
Wonderful! Beautiful city, and 110 years older than Montréal - though weren't there Indigenous settlements there before? Here too, but they didn't build in stone. Though I do think the cathedral warrants a celebratory clean - it looks very dingy.
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 17, 2016 3:11:04 GMT
Thanks for the kind words, Kerouac, even though I'm positive everyone has lovingly committed every single one of my threads to memory.  It was so much fun to go back to beautiful Puebla with my stalwart companions. I was hoping I had not talked it up too much, as I consider it an absolutely gorgeous city. Looking at your pictures, it's obvious you turned a very appreciative eye on the place, with truly stellar photographic results. I'm jumping in here now so we can try to keep the thread in sync -- something not always easy with three participants. We were quite pleased with the location of our hotel, within easy walking distance of all the interesting stuff in the center. Arriving at the zócalo, I thought I was home in Oaxaca, what with all the demonstrators displaying their disgruntlement with the state government ~ |
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 17, 2016 3:49:32 GMT
LaGatta, the cathedral has a facade of black limestone, so is naturally dark. That, combined with the fact it has the tallest towers of any church in Mexico makes it hard to capture in a photo. I think Kerouac's pictures look extremely good, though and I'll present mine as well. I made a thread on the place back in 2011 ( La Catedral de Angelópolis), if anyone wants to check it out for historical background, etc. Because of that thread, I didn't take a ton of pictures inside the cathedral, secure in the knowledge that my companions would do it full justice. (Gotta say, though -- boy, do I have a better camera now than I did in 2011!  |
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 17, 2016 4:07:22 GMT
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Post by fumobici on Nov 17, 2016 4:56:53 GMT
As we gazed upon this alarming figure of the recumbent Christ, a church harpy came along and told us not to take pictures. I snapped this last one out of spite
Jesús el guero. Even in Mexico?  |
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Post by fumobici on Nov 17, 2016 4:59:08 GMT
Everything I know about Puebla, I learned on this page  What an unexpected and pleasant surprise this is. Hope there'll be lots more of Puebla. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 5:06:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 6:35:58 GMT
The Spaniards laid out central Puebla as a rectangular grid in 1531, and the streets are still mostly numbered, which makes it easier not to get lost. For example, our hotel was near the intersection of Calle 2 Norte and Avenida 4 Oriente (street sign shown in 2nd photo of reply #1). Many of the current buildings date from the mid 19th century and were built by the Spanish... and the French. Most of us are somewhat hazy on Mexican history, so it is interesting to note that Puebla was under French rule for part of the 1860's and that the holiday of Cinco de Mayo commemorates the defeat of the French army in Puebla by General Zaragoza on 5 May 1862. The French took the city again but finally left in 1866, not before leaving behind quite a few architectural influences and things like music kiosks in the parks. In any case, Puebla was always a major trading hub -- located midway between the coastal port on the Gulf of Mexico and Mexico City. Many people from Spain, Italy, Lebanon, Germany and France settled there and the influences of all of these cultures remain quite evident. |
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Post by htmb on Nov 17, 2016 10:58:30 GMT
Wonderful start, Kerouac and Bixa!
I've been interested in visiting Puebla ever since I read one of Bixa's earlier reports about the city, and it was certainly everything I thought it would be and more. There were photo opportunities everywhere we looked and interesting churches, seemingly on every block in the old town area. This thread should continue to be quite entertaining, as we saw a variety of sights.
I'm traveling again, so it's very likely I'll wait until Kerouac and Bixa have finished posting most of their photos before starting at the beginning and adding mine.
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Post by lagatta on Nov 17, 2016 13:27:51 GMT
Such a beautiful city! Yes, I could see that the stone was dark, as in the Auvergne, I was referring only to the steeples that seemed rather stained.
I knew that it was a university centre, but see that there are also state-of-the-art Volkswagen and Audi plants there.
This past year I've seen travel publicity billboards here promoting Puebla travel here in Québec, featuring the architecture.
Stupid clichéd question: did you eat mole poblano?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 14:33:10 GMT
We're about to go into a church -- yes, another one -- but before that, how about something completely different (as Monty Python would say)? This video combines the daytime Muertos parade and the techno zombie walk that took place the following evening. I think you will be surprised.
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Post by bjd on Nov 17, 2016 14:50:02 GMT
I just looked to see where Puebla is. Is it the same place as Heroica Puebla de Zaragoza, which is what google maps gives me?
It looks like a nice city, although indeed it could use someone like André Malraux to clean some of the black off the buildings. But the architecture and coloured buildings are very attractive.
Who are the political prisoners the demonstration was about?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 14:58:07 GMT
Yes, Puebla and Heroica Puebla de Zaragoza are the same place. It even has a 3rd name: Ciudad de los Ángeles.
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Post by mossie on Nov 17, 2016 16:14:41 GMT
Now I am intrigued, which two of you shared the double bed  |
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 17, 2016 16:56:46 GMT
bjd, the people I asked merely said the demonstration was because of dissatisfaction with the government. I looked up the UPVA 28 de Octubre and found that they have a facebook page & a twitter account. This is from the FB page, including the closing link: "Por más de dos años, el gobierno de Rafael Moreno Valle ha mantenido la persecución política en contra de 14 activistas, integrantes del Movimiento Cholula Viva y Digna, quienes se han opuesto a la construcción de un parque en las inmediaciones de la Gran Pirámide, rica en vestigios arqueológicos.
El catedrático Roberto Formacio denunció que, desde octubre de 2014 a la fecha, le han dictado cuatro órdenes de aprehensión en las que le acusa por los mismos delitos, lo que pone en evidencia que el mandatario poblano “recurre a instrumentos fascistas para acallar la protesta pública”." www.proceso.com.mx/462042/acusan-a-moreno-valle-recurrir-a-instrumentos-fascistas-acallar-a-defensores-cholulaThat's just one item from the many grievances and accusations on the FB page.
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 17, 2016 17:00:29 GMT
Mossie, you have touched upon an area of bitterness. Kerouac claimed the big bed for himself and what I consider an excessive number of teddy bears. This forced me and Htmb onto the small bed, where we took turns curling at the foot so the other could stretch out.
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 17, 2016 17:19:55 GMT
As you can see from Kerouac's wonderful pictures, Puebla is a great place to stroll around and take in the sights. Truly, the architecture alone makes it worth a visit ~ |
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Post by onlyMark on Nov 17, 2016 19:09:12 GMT
Bixa/K2/htmb, even though I don't necessarily comment on each thread I do really enjoy 'seeing the sights' and I do have questions that occur to me but usually, by the time I've taken it all in, I forget to ask, or run out of time, or someone else has asked it. I mostly enjoy the street scenes and seeing day to day life. That's not saying the other photos are unsatisfactory, far far from it, but I do like to see 'the big picture' and see what is going on. Another attraction is always the food. Don C's posts usually get my mouth watering as well. So, a couple of questions for the panel on Bixa's post 19 - Second photo down, blue tiles. Traditional pattern? Patterns vary from town to town? Newer tiles don't seem to have traditional patterns anymore so older style ones difficult to get? Fourth photo down - please, whatever the food is, can you send it to me. Tonight if possible. The sausages, would they be pork or beef or mixed? Red colour because of chillis? The bread roll, pickles, cabbage, tomato and...... and.....? Is the bread good? Or, as I often find in some countries, a little too sweet? Seventh photo down, is that two men holding hands? Common sight and I hope accepted without a problem if it is? Last three bar one, white painted metal or? I can't see any repetitions in the pattern. Did you notice any? Not that you'd be interested to look, it's just me. If not then someone has an ocean of skill with a plasma cutter. Third photo down, name of the dog?  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 20:33:55 GMT
I know that Bixa will get back to you as soon as possible with the answers to your questions, Mark. I don't quite remember if today is her day for the volunteer work at the leper colony or if it is her day to discipline (i.e. whip) insufficiently performing children at the Nike factory, but she should be back soon. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 23:45:18 GMT
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Post by lagatta on Nov 18, 2016 0:16:41 GMT
That's too bad about the public phones in Paris. That is very distressing for people who don't have portable phones, or whose portable phones are out of order. There is a huge disregard for people who are either poor or in various forms of crisis in such measures.
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Post by fumobici on Nov 18, 2016 1:46:05 GMT
That's too bad about the public phones in Paris. That is very distressing for people who don't have portable phones, or whose portable phones are out of order. There is a huge disregard for people who are either poor or in various forms of crisis in such measures.My US My US spec phones don't work in Europe, as most won't. Even the "proper" GSM/SIM-type often are incompatible with any particular county's local technical standards. When I'm in Italy, I borrow an ancient Nokia dumb phone from my parents. It works at least. Italy is still pretty well equipped with public phones. I'm surprised Paris is so American tourist unfriendly. If I traveled more, I'd probably buy a cheap quad band GSM smart phone on ebay just to use in Europe. PS- I'm still pretty blown away by how interesting Puebla looks in these photos. I want to visit! Hoping for more report here. |
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Post by breeze on Nov 18, 2016 2:46:21 GMT
Puebla is a very attractive city. More photos, por favor.
Kerouac, are you able to identify the French influence?
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 18, 2016 4:28:29 GMT
I'll intersperse my answers in this font and this color, okay?
I'm getting ready to post more pictures, which will of course include street scenes. Htmb is traveling right now, but I'm looking forward to her Puebla pictures, as she always has some surprises up her sleeve.Bixa/K2/htmb, even though I don't necessarily comment on each thread I do really enjoy 'seeing the sights' and I do have questions that occur to me but usually, by the time I've taken it all in, I forget to ask, or run out of time, or someone else has asked it. I mostly enjoy the street scenes and seeing day to day life. That's not saying the other photos are unsatisfactory, far far from it, but I do like to see 'the big picture' and see what is going on. Another attraction is always the food. Don C's posts usually get my mouth watering as well. So, a couple of questions for the panel on Bixa's post 19 - Second photo down, blue tiles. Traditional pattern? Patterns vary from town to town? Newer tiles don't seem to have traditional patterns anymore so older style ones difficult to get? Yes, a traditional pattern. Puebla is known for its production of talavera tile and of ceramics partaking of the talavera tradition. Here is my unfinished report on it from 2013: anyportinastorm.proboards.com/thread/6291. At least one of us must have pictures from this trip of some of it for sale in areas of town we visited later. Fourth photo down - please, whatever the food is, can you send it to me. Tonight if possible. The sausages, would they be pork or beef or mixed? Red colour because of chillis? The bread roll, pickles, cabbage, tomato and...... and.....? Is the bread good? Or, as I often find in some countries, a little too sweet? The sausage looks like Mexican chorizo, a non-cured pork sausage. Yes, the color is from chile -- probably mostly chile guajillo. It's a highly flavored, but not hot-spicy sausage. You can try making your own: www.finecooking.com/recipes/homemade-mexican-chorizo.aspx.
On the bread roll, from the top: the pickles are jalapeño en escabeche -- jalapeño strips pickled in a light brine*. Beneath that is quesillo -- Oaxacan string cheese (very similar to Armenian string cheese), then some sliced tomatoes, then slices of avocado. *www.mexicanplease.com/taqueria-style-pickled-jalapenos-carrots/
The bread is okay, but not great.Seventh photo down, is that two men holding hands? Common sight and I hope accepted without a problem if it is? Hmm, could be. Yes, common enough sight, as are public displays of affection between couples of all stripes. It's never commented on by anyone that I've seen.Last three bar one, white painted metal or? I can't see any repetitions in the pattern. Did you notice any? Not that you'd be interested to look, it's just me. If not then someone has an ocean of skill with a plasma cutter. Strangely, it wasn't that easy to find out about the sculpture, particularly its creator. It is in fact white painted metal, probably aluminum, and probably water jet cut: www.factum-arte.com/pag/95/Hoja--Arbol-y-Bosque I doubt there are repetitions in the pattern. The name of the piece is The Path of Angels and it is meant to honor a woman from Puebla named Ángeles Espinosa Yglesias, a patron of the arts. Third photo down, name of the dog? That's little Peludita.
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Post by mich64 on Nov 18, 2016 4:31:32 GMT
Another interesting and beautiful report! I enjoy both styles of writing and photo choices, for example, the bus photo pictures.
Kerouac, photo #3 in reply #1 made me think back to my Cuba report where I posted the picture of the deserted old grand Hotel. This building, although smaller, evoked the memory of that photo and what it could possibly look like if it were restored.
Bixa, reply #5, photo #3, gorgeous.
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 18, 2016 4:54:06 GMT
Thanks so much, Mich ~ you always give such kind and flattering attention to everyones threads. Also thanks for prompting to me go look at your lovely Cuba thread in order to compare styles of architecture. So, continuing our wandering through the streets ~ |
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 18, 2016 5:14:40 GMT
This confection is part of the outer walls of the Templo de Santo Domingo. I nipped at Htmb's and Kerouac's heels until they went inside, as I wanted them to see the famed Rosary Chapel inside. Alas, Mass was in progress at the time, so we contented ourselves for the time being with the less celebrated and less ornate main church. We returned later, so you'll get to see the glories of the chapel as well ~ |
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