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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 15:00:46 GMT
This is a topic that has become and remains more and more controversial here in NOLA and other cities and towns all over.
There have been many attempts to try and compromise between the pro and con groups.
Today the N.O. City Council will hold what (or, so they say) the final meeting to establish once and for all (or, so they say...) their decision as to the legality of this hot topic. I'm sure the hall will be packed to the rafters. I gratefully was able to "weasel" my way out of being a neighborhood representative as many other neighbors volunteered to "step up to the plate". (one of the advantages of being a village elder....goodness knows I have done my time going down to City Hall for thirty or more years to protest and or champion many an "issue").
I would be curious to hear how other towns and cities address (or don't) this ever growing controversial enterprise.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 16:54:39 GMT
It is a really hot topic in a lot of the cities of Europe -- Barcelona, Berlin, London, Paris... But basically only Barcelona and Berlin have slammed down hard so far, in the style of San Francisco and New York City. Paris has all of the rules and regulations on the book but seems to be either hesitant about enforcing them or else is really stuck in the quagmire of massive fraud -- probably both, actually. As a "magnet" city, Paris has the problem that zillions of people have bought secondary residences with the intention of renting them out most of the time. This is reasonable in a lot of places, but not in cities with a housing shortage. The rule in Paris is that you can rent your own primary residence for a total of 4 months a year but no more than that. Anything more than that entails very complicated rules about acquiring equivalent spaces and converting them to long term residences. In other words, people have to buy twice as much as what they want to have the right to rent out an apartment.
So most rentals are done completely illegally, which is still quite easy to do as long as people are willing to make cash transactions. The only useful "police" are furious neighbours who blow the whistle on such things. And that tends to leave a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths when you think back 75 or so years to when other Parisians blew the whistle on their neighbours to have them deported to the camps. Frankly, I think they should get over it, because this is not at all the same thing.
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Post by mich64 on Dec 1, 2016 19:22:03 GMT
It is an interesting topic Casi. There are so many sides to the arguments and because every city and town is different in regards to what their economy relies on whether it be, for example, tourism or industrial.
A few years ago I noticed the home renovation shows were showing the new trend of building apartments in your basements with separate entrances where people would rent out to Companies for staff that come to town on short assignments or training to make them feel like a home instead of a hotel room. It seems like it could be a good idea to provide extra income, in this application it usually is a single person, a short term rental period and without the feeling of being a full time landlord. I imagine they would advertise them on the Air BnB site as well, I think I automatically thought of Air BnB for tourists primarily.
I understand tourists seeking apartments in cities like N.O. and Paris, but we did not think the Air BnB market would affect us out in the rural area, but sure enough, people are buying homes or cottages in our area to rent out, weekly/monthly/seasonally. Our friends down the bay were quite nervous this past year after their long time neighbor passed away they thought one of the adult children would buy their siblings out but they were having difficulty coming to a resolution so they were contemplating renting. Our friends were concerned that it would end up being a continuous "party house". Two brothers ended up taking it over. Then, at the end of this summer, our neighbors had their property surveyed and there were stakes all over the place. They ended up revealing that they are planning on removing the cottage and building a home, we are so happy as they are great neighbors!
It will be interesting to read of the challenges in other towns and cities in other countries.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 19:43:36 GMT
Barcelona was one of the cities that the gentleman/neighbor spearheading the opposition to more regulation used as an example of the cities he and his wife noted where this was a major issue.
It will be interesting to see how this pans out here on the local level .
The opponents major issue has to do with how these rentals gone unregulated have given rise to in absentia landlords who have bought up properties and leave a void/gap in affordable
housing not only in tourist areas of the city but seemingly encroaching into other more predominant residential neighborhoods.
Personally, I really did not object to said issue until a house that abuts our property was being rented out with persons who at times were respectful of the neighborhood and some of whom were not.
Mardi Gras, Jazz Festival, etc. I could deal with to some degree but, other times, at 3 a.m. being able to hear everything, music, conversations, hooping and hollering on a weeknight pushed me over the edge. We always knew that living adjacent to a light commercial corridor with restaurants, music clubs nearby could potentially pose a problem with our lifestyle. Gratefully, our neighborhood organization is quite organized despite many different opinions, and, of course, investing in property adjacent to a light commercial corridor is a "roll of the dice".
The owners of the property I quite liked but, their not being on the premises to have to endure all this, gave rise to not only my ire but many other adjacent neighbors with families and, need I say more, peace and quiet on a weeknight that all agreed needed to be addressed.
They have since sold the property to someone invested in the neighborhood to raise their small family.
Much more horrific scenarios have been documented in the more tourist prone areas of the city.
Chexbres, you may have experienced some of this while you were living here but, you may have flown the coop before it became a more and more heightened concern. (the main areas that are currently proliferated in a major way are Bywater and the Fauborg Marigny.) It has now filtered into Uptown and other areas not so tourist ridden but, more and more in alarming evidence and therefore, a more growing concern.
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Post by chexbres on Dec 2, 2016 17:34:04 GMT
casimira - The 1984 World's Fair changed everything. People saw a great opportunity to sell off dilapidated French Quarter apartment buildings and make them into condos. Then condos were rented out short-term, then just for weekends. This effectively killed the French Quarter, where I had lived since 1970.
I bought a crack house on Chartres St, just off Frenchman St in 2001. I wanted to operate a legal Bed and Breakfast, so had to comply with all the rules, insurance, codes, etc. It was expensive to get insurance - which did not pay one red cent after Katrina, due to the "military evacuation clause" - but I rebuilt, anyway. Because there were no tourists willing to pay more than $35 per night (I had always charged $225 and was booked solid), I just up and sold the license and building and moved to France.
It has been a losing battle ever since the World's Fair and onward, because everybody "and they mama" is operating illegal guest houses, B&Bs, etc. There were some horrific stories about blocked exits, no fire extinguishers, buildings not up to electrical codes...It's interesting to think that people don't give any consideration to safety - just want a cheap place to flop and get drunk.
I was a member of the Faubourg Marigny Neighborhood Association, and was the principal in complaining to the authorities in Baton Rouge about licensing B&Bs, quality of life issues, fire and safety hazards and so forth. We made several trips there over a 2-year period. I remember that things got to the point of being changed several times, but I can't believe that it's still going on.
There is a need for short-term rentals - in fact, New Orleans has many "extended-stay hotels" for people who need them while they're looking for work or housing, etc. In Paris, there are very few of them, and people disdain the "chain aspect" of these places, even though they are exactly where first-time tourists should be staying.
The short-term apartment craze in Paris is out of control. First-time visitors have been told that apartments are much larger and more quaint than any hotel room - not always the case - but nobody is around to help them when the toilet gets stopped up or the elevator breaks. With the arrival of AirBnB, renters illegally sublet their place and go sleep on a friend's couch and collect a whole lot of undeclared cash, and investors who have never spent a night in the apartment rent them out illegally for big bucks on a myriad of websites.
The Mayor's Office is playing one side against the other, due to terrorism fears and the fact that the Mayor is angling for the Olympic Games and wants tourism to increase. One minister took it upon himself to gather all the information about illegal apartments which were listed on the internet. This was to be used to combat the problem, but has apparently gone nowhere. There was a law passed this July, requiring full-time residents who wanted to rent legally to apply to City Hall for a registration number. Only 120 apartments have been listed as legal by the City.
There is an estimated 48% of the available rental units in Paris which are being used for short-term rentals, usually a 3 day period for one couple. This means that the person selling a tourist his morning croissant has to face a 90 minute commute to the suburbs, just so the tourist can stay across the street from the patisserie.
Kerouac - the law which was passed in July does not allow irritated neighbors to "rat out" each other, as much as they would love to. Now, it's up to the board members of the co-propriete to designate the person who has to keep track of the coming's and going's of illegal rentals. Then, when they have enough evidence, the Mayor's Task Force will make a visit to examine the premises, compile the official dossier, contact the property owner and make him pay a fine or stop renting illegally.
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Post by patricklondon on Dec 2, 2016 17:45:56 GMT
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Post by chexbres on Dec 2, 2016 21:42:37 GMT
So - I guess the next question is, what are we going to do about it?
Will we let the government tell us what we can and cannot do with our personal property? There are local zoning ordinances, condo regulations, safety and sanitary codes and so forth which must be adhered to - but if you own a detached building, are you going to let anyone tell you what to do with it?
The rules are strict in most apartment buildings in Paris. If your clients annoy the neighbors long enough, you will be sued, rather than be reported to the Mayor's Office.
It's not possible for every apartment or private home to be brought up to the same standards of safety and sanitation as a hotel. But I think there should be much greater emphasis put on this fact and zoning ordinances should be strictly enforced to protect everyone involved.
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Post by patricklondon on Dec 3, 2016 18:30:26 GMT
Will we let the government tell us what we can and cannot do with our personal property? There are local zoning ordinances, condo regulations, safety and sanitary codes and so forth which must be adhered to You've answered your own question. As far as the UK is concerned, our planning laws deal with permitted uses for each property, so yes, we do let the government (i.e, our elected local councillors) tell us at least some of the things we can and cannot do with our own property. If the permission (zoning) is for residential use, it's not just that you're not allowed suddenly to decide to turn it into an abattoir or something equally noisome, you're also not allowed to use it for successive short-term rentals that take a property out of the ordinary residential market into the tourist business, and thereby force up prices in that market. The problem, as ever, is how to enforce it - that has to depend on individuals notifying the proper authorities. My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam"
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Post by lagatta on Dec 3, 2016 19:13:47 GMT
The short-term rentals can also be extremely annoying for neighbours. Many people who are quiet, respectful and "respectable" at home let it all hang out when on holiday. I remember tourists wandering around in bikinis and swimming shorts in Venice. And there was nothing like Paris-Plage, or large parks where locals sunbathed. Well, there's the Lido, but I was nowhere near there. The Venetians were complaining... Since then, I think most of them have moved to Mestre and suburbs.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2016 19:49:44 GMT
Ah, we live in such a wonderful world now where the affluent can flit around the planet at will, settle briefly with no consideration for the locals and then move on to the next place to morally vandalise.
What's really weird about this wonderful world is that when the poverty stricken masses move around the planet to settle briefly with no possibility of proper consideration for the locals, many people are outraged and don't think that people should move around freely.
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Post by lagatta on Dec 3, 2016 23:04:51 GMT
Yes, but fleeing mass killings in Aleppo has less of a cachet than seeking out the latest swinging hotspot or trendiest district.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2016 4:33:59 GMT
Oh Chexbres,Just now catching up with this thread.
Have much to add and am ever so grateful however, am not at all that knowledgeable info of what transpired after the "84 World's Fair here, other than it was a renaissance period for the Warehouse District (much deprived and derelict) and then developed by the Klebnocoff, Hines and other rich developers in that area/region including your spot),
I had no knowledge whatsoever the impact this had on The Marigny and then, Bywater, now Treme from that far back, and then now, the outrage and seemingly helpless/powerlessness
we are up against.
I do, however, as a citizen and home owner here truly applaud tor efforts.
What to do?
It seems to come down to greed.
Edited to add that I am aware and,I know this topic applies to cities and towns on a global level.
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Post by chexbres on Dec 4, 2016 8:57:32 GMT
I guess it all boils down to the theory that "if everybody does it, it must be OK". Everybody seems to cheat on taxes, everybody needs a little cash to make ends meet, nobody sees anything, or if they do, you give them a little "hush money"... Greed, pure and simple. AirBnB has agreed to enforce rental laws in London and Amsterdam, so far. Hopefully, Paris and other cities will be next: www.ft.com/content/fafd8d58-b7bd-11e6-ba85-95d1533d9a62
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2016 15:51:35 GMT
Thanks for that link Chexbres.
Hopefully, other cities will follow suit.
Here in NOLA the mayor and the city council have locked horns on the issue. (as they often do on almost any or all issue especially if it involves money)
The mayor most certainly has an agenda in supporting the Air BnB's as it generates revenue for the city (and, perhaps a kickback or two to the right people, would not be too harsh
an assumption given the many levels of corruption that seem to be part and parcel of politics in these parts).
The City Council represents the various districts throughout the city and are elected by it's residents. Their agenda is to stay in office and or be re-elected.
The Mayor's office is also an elected position but he has far less to lose than the City Council members do.
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Post by patricklondon on Dec 5, 2016 8:37:29 GMT
I suppose this is one particularly fast-acting (and therefore perceived to be aggressive) variation on social change that gentrification is also part of - disruption of established communities by different people with different habits. Except that, by definition, people on short-term rentals are never going to have any incentive to engage in the things that do actually make a community. Even gentrifying interlopers sooner or later want to settle and ensure that local services and facilities (beyond the latest hipster café and craft shops) are worth having, for everybody. My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam"
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Post by chexbres on Dec 6, 2016 8:13:37 GMT
Patrick - this is precisely the point. When I moved here permanently in 2008, my neighborhood was much different. Many more interesting food stores, most people went to the outdoor markets because there were few supermarkets, lots more small cafes and restaurants which sold "real" food and bookstores.
Now, it's all global name-brand clothing shops, jewelry, makeup and perfume boutiques, "designer pastry shops", and restaurants and cafes have been largely bought out by corporations which sell the same overpriced food to tourists.
Most locals can't afford to buy anything in these places unless it's on sale. And a lot of tourists who stay in apartments for only 2 or 3 days are on a tight budget, so don't shop, either.
So, in effect, what we have is an outdoor shopping mall for the wealthy...
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Post by bjd on Dec 6, 2016 8:29:22 GMT
Much of Paris has become like that, Chexbres. I went regularly to Paris since the mid-1970s and saw many changes, many for the better in fact: cleaner streets, people putting flowers on their windowsills...
We bought our apartment there in 1998, in a neighbourhood that was much less fancy than the Marais (already overpriced at the time, with little scungy apartments selling for high prices because of the location). Over the 18 years we had it, it went from a place where there were lots of food stores, stores selling things people need in everyday life like furniture, appliances, books, clothes to fancy little cheese shops, franchise clothing stores, more and more cafés. Not too many international designer shops, simply because it's an area with fewer tourists and short-term rentals than the Marais but there has been a huge change. So it's not quite an "outdoor shopping mall for the wealthy", but it's definitely an area that has priced out many students/ordinary working people/retirees -- as has happened in so much of the city.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 12:29:05 GMT
Even though gentrification is beginning my neighbourhood with a few fancy wine bars and definitely 'upgraded' restaurants (although a full meal here rarely costs more than 20-25€ in my area, and that is considered to be absolutely dirt cheap to most Parisians), but it is also now the zone with the highest concentration of student residences in Paris. In fact, every single building that is built now seems to be a student residence in my little 'pie slice' district. The rail lines of Gare du Nord and Gare de l'Est create a thin wedge that the specialists refer to as the " micro-quartier Marx Dormoy"). This isolates us (just a tiny bit) from the Goutte d'Or on one side and some of the grimmer areas of the 19th arrondissement on the other side. The main factor preventing rapid gentrification is that even though the North Africans who were here before are being squeezed out, they are being replaced by the Sri Lankans and Indians who are overflowing out of the Gare du Nord area. Apparently this is pushing commercial rents up, but since the businesses replacing the old ones are just as cheap (or even cheaper than before), it is not a problem. Too much junk food, though -- but that's the students' fault, even though it's nice that all of these places stay open until 2 a.m. in case I ever need them! A deluxe burger place recently opened next to our one and only 4-star hotel ( Le Kube), but I'm expecting it to go out of business within 3 or 4 months unless they are doing the catering for the hotel.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 16:21:35 GMT
The same thing has happened here. Our light commercial corridor adjacent to us at one time was much more of a mixed commercial use "Mom and Pop" mini-mainstreet. Gone is the fishmonger, cobbler, 5&10, hardware store and likely some others I am forgetting. All replaced by unaffordable superfluous high end restaurants, boutiques, and coffee shops. If I need some small hardware item I have to drive to either Lowe's or Home Depot.(both in Jefferson Parish).
The same is even more in evidence in NYC. Extremely so. A Starbucks on every corner. Although,there are still some neighborhoods that are holding their own but, it's just a matter of time.
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Post by patricklondon on Dec 6, 2016 18:00:47 GMT
Gentrification in general has been a running issue in London for decades, with much speculation about where's next. Swathes of just-inner (but not central) London suburbs have been through this over the last thirty years or so (though I can remember when it was happening to Covent Garden!), and now there are very few areas left which are wholly untouched. First the artists move into cheap spaces and start "re-purposing" them, then as the quirky vegetarian cafés start to smarten themselves up a bit the new media hipsters move in, and prices start running away, then people like me get in before it's really insane, with the buy-to-rent merchants in close competition, then the foreign money moves in, and the arty/hipster businesses find themselves forced out for the final stage of blandification by the chains. Where I live was once rough-ish ("common" but more or less respectable working-class), but I doubt if I could afford to move here now if I hadn't bought during a temporary pause in the early post-industrial development. My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam"
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Post by chexbres on Dec 7, 2016 20:38:40 GMT
Today's issue of Le Parisien reported that there was an amendment added to the short-term rental law (passed 7 July 2016).
Now, online vacation rental websites, such as AirBnB and all the others, will be forced to report their clients' rental income directly to the tax authorities. Clients making less than 23,000 EU in rental income have to declare, but don't have to pay tax on this amount in Paris.
Banks have set strict limits on cash withdrawals and deposits, so it will be interesting to see how people who are renting non-stop will handle all of this.
The laws which were passed during the summer have been slow to go into effect. Perhaps this is due to Mayor Hidalgo's pushing for the Olympic Games, perhaps she just wants to increase tourism. But the hotel lobby is pushing hard for resolutions like this to pass, so it will probably be sooner than later.
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Post by rikita on Dec 8, 2016 23:25:35 GMT
the whole gentrification thing is happening in my area, too - rents have at least tripled since i moved here twelve years ago (mine hasn't, but i'd like to move to a bigger place in the area and that is almost impossible), lots of new bars, some of the new shops and food options are nice, of course ... ah, and when my little brother started daycare ten years ago, he was the only kid with two german parents, now the daycare has to watch to keep their "quota" of non-german background kids (they get some specific funding for supporting kids in learning german) ... the atmosphere in the area is still not all that bland and clean, still a lot of social mixture too, but if rents keep going up, that might change one day ...
as for airbnb, i once looked for places in my area, some of them obviously available year-round, and thought how i'd like to rent them as a proper apartment ... not that i could have afforded them anyway ... not sure how much the change in law has been enforced here, though ...
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Post by bjd on Dec 9, 2016 6:54:58 GMT
Last time I was in Berlin (2010), we went for a walk in the area we had rented a place in 2 years earlier -- in Kreuzberg. While we were having a drink at a café, a demonstration of young local residents came by with signs complaining about the rise in rents and the difficulty of finding a place to live in the area. It seems that in Berlin, "gentrification" seems to be happening ever since the wall came down, especially since it was a fairly cheap place to live compared to other European cities.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2016 7:14:32 GMT
With the imminent disappearance of cash in the developed world (Sweden is apparently going to be the first country to do it.), many of the ways of hiding illegal money are going to disappear. Of course I wonder how beggars will fare, but they'll probably accept Apple Pay.
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Post by rikita on Dec 9, 2016 9:56:53 GMT
yes, the gentrification here moves from one area of town to the next, basically following the people (artists etc.) that flee it ... a lot of areas are still mixed, fortunately, but some aren't ... rent here i suppose sounds still cheap compared to some other cities, but then again, wages tend to be low, too (and both rent and prices for other things are definitely rising - back when i started university, i usually paid no more than 20 euros per week on food, i don't think i would manage to do that now) ...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2016 16:34:35 GMT
Anyone familiar with New Orleans would be shocked beyond belief to see areas, whole corridors, transformed into unaffordable real estate.
And while these areas of which many bordered on blight, the improvement is a positive thing.
But, where do/did all the people who previously lived there or had businesses there go?
(Oretha Castle Haley Blvd.,all of Freret from Uptown on down, Treme, Broadmoor, Central City, Oak, and now Leonidas and most of "Pidgeon Town" are the new gentrified frontiers).
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Post by bixaorellana on Dec 9, 2016 17:03:20 GMT
I've been following this thread since its beginning and it seems at one point in the conversation the perception was that short term rentals = gentrification. I don't know if anyone here actually subscribes to that idea, but I believe Patrick's layout of the gentrification timeline is most accurate: Gentrification in general has been a running issue in London for decades, with much speculation about where's next. Swathes of just-inner (but not central) London suburbs have been through this over the last thirty years or so (though I can remember when it was happening to Covent Garden!), and now there are very few areas left which are wholly untouched. First the artists move into cheap spaces and start "re-purposing" them, then as the quirky vegetarian cafés start to smarten themselves up a bit the new media hipsters move in, and prices start running away, then people like me get in before it's really insane, with the buy-to-rent merchants in close competition, then the foreign money moves in, and the arty/hipster businesses find themselves forced out for the final stage of blandification by the chains. ... Really, the only way to keep out gentrification is to hope that our town or city doesn't get "discovered". Then the town will turn into a pricey bedroom community for a nearby city and the city will price everyone out of existence. We can all think of numerous instances of this. As for short-term rentals -- I've stayed in them four times and loved the experience each time. Yes, it's awful that speculators buy up property to use this way, but how to control them without crushing regular homeowners who use the extra revenue to keep themselves afloat in increasingly expensive areas? That would include people who rent out their homes to allow themselves a vacation, or those who renovate one part of their house to cover the expense of their main dwelling. I stayed in the bottom part of this house in London. The revenue from the apartment went towards maintaining the building -- a building that remained essentially a single-family home rather than being turned into a hotel or multiple apartments.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2016 17:19:42 GMT
That looks lovely Bixa.
I think it does depend on different variables in different cities and towns.
New Orleans has been a "boom town" ever since Katrina and while other parts of the country that were in a real estate slump, New Orleans has been a major exception and remains so. Land grabs and greed are the driving force here.
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Post by bixaorellana on Dec 9, 2016 19:33:27 GMT
Really, New Orleans has been speculated to death since the 70s. Real estate agents would report to the city such things such as roofs in bad repair. Then they'd wait for the property owner -- generally an old lady who was living in her old family home -- to get the citation from the city with the attendant estimations for repair. Then they'd swoop in and offer some lowball figure. Often the old lady, knowing her old shotgun house had been built for a few thousand dollars, would see the realtor's offer as riches untold. Little did she suspect that she couldn't buy anything the least bit comparable for that offer.
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Post by patricklondon on Dec 9, 2016 20:06:10 GMT
Yes, it's awful that speculators buy up property to use this way, but how to control them without crushing regular homeowners who use the extra revenue to keep themselves afloat in increasingly expensive areas? That would include people who rent out their homes to allow themselves a vacation, or those who renovate one part of their house to cover the expense of their main dwelling. I stayed in the bottom part of this house in London. The revenue from the apartment went towards maintaining the building -- a building that remained essentially a single-family home rather than being turned into a hotel or multiple apartments. Well, once you've bought your property you're not affected by price rises all around you (or at least not in the UK, where no-one dares to do what really needs doing, which is to reinstate regular revaluations for local property taxes), as long you just sit still. Any rules and regulations are likely to be a bit of a blunt instrument, but AFAIK, in the UK renting out a spare room (which the name AirBnB suggests) is not a problem, as long as owners declare the income for tax in the proper way, and letting out the whole property is OK for up to 90 days a year. I suppose letting out a flat within or attached to the owner's home may be a debatable area, depending on local market conditions. My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam"
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