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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 9:02:24 GMT
bjd, I've read that Mélenchon is actually very well-off. I was just making a "style" observation, not insinuating that Mélenchon was a skilled manual worker. His patrimoine (patrimony? assets?) amounts to 1 000 000 euros. He was a minister, a senator, he has been a député at the European parlement since 2009. As a député he earns 6 000 euros a month. He admits that he's very comfortable. To make a comparison, one my colleagues, a postal worker, told me that he possess with his wife about 300 000 euros (house+cars+savings..).
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Post by bjd on Apr 18, 2017 9:38:59 GMT
Askar, I thought that 6000/month seemed low so I just looked it up. For European parliament deputies:
Base salary per month: 8484,04 before tax, 6611,47 net. Plus general allowance (indemnité de frais généraux) 4320€ per month Transport costs to the parliament are paid. Plus, 306€ per day just for showing up.
Since they are docked part of that for absence, some turn up and sign in and then leave immediately.
They also get 23392€ to pay their parliamentary assistants.
Notre Observatoire de la Corruption vous révélait récemment à quel point les les statistiques de présences en commission sont faibles chez les députés européens !
A titre d’exemple, Jean-Luc Mélenchon n’est présent qu’à 12% des commissions, Marine le Pen à 37% des commissions, Vincent Peillon à 48%…
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 10:19:50 GMT
I found it interesting to read the combined terms of elected office (mayor, parliament, European parliament, etc.) of the various candidates, just about all of whom have claimed to not be part of the "system."
Jean Lassalle is the champion with 106.8 years. François Fillon comes in second with 105.3 years. Nicolas Dupont-Aignan is 3rd with 56.5 years and Jean-Luc Mélenchon is 4th with 55.5 years. The bottom 3 are Macron (2 years government minister but not elected), Poutou and Cheminade who are at zero. Of course people with all of those elected offices also get the salaries and indemnities that go with each office, but then they work 36-hour days I suppose or else they are cheating the people who elected them.
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Post by patricklondon on Apr 18, 2017 11:30:38 GMT
Of course people with all of those elected offices also get the salaries and indemnities that go with each office, but then they work 36-hour days I suppose or else they are cheating the people who elected them. It's not usual, maybe not even possible, for MPs in the UK (other than those who become ministers) to combine elected offices at the different levels of government, but there is always plenty of debate about MPs who take on other work as well, either instead of aiming for a ministerial career or to build up the pension pot when that's over: news.sky.com/story/george-osbornes-evening-standard-role-raises-potential-conflicts-of-interest-10805063
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 11:57:56 GMT
The law in France has finally changed and as of the upcoming legislative elections, it will no longer be possible to hold both a national or European and local office at the same time.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 12:22:40 GMT
Okay, I opened this subject with a report on Emmanuel Macron when almost nobody knew who he was, so it was only fitting to attend his last major rally before the first round of the election and see how things are going. I could have gone straight from there to Marine Le Pen's evening rally at the Zénith, but for some reason that did not appeal to me.
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Post by lagatta on Apr 18, 2017 13:32:16 GMT
Well, I know people who were protesting against her rally there. They live very close by, closer than you do. Is it provocation that she held her meeting in a district where so many immigrants live, work and own businesses?
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Post by patricklondon on Apr 18, 2017 13:35:31 GMT
I must say, our big campaign rallies tend to be a bit half-hearted by comparison. Well, not that big actually. My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam"
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Post by bjd on Apr 18, 2017 14:00:34 GMT
From what I read, Macron's meeting had a lot more people than le Pen's.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 14:27:34 GMT
Well, the Accor Hotels Arena (formerly the Palais Omnisports Paris Bercy - "POPB" -- before it was "branded") holds 20,000 and there were apparently another 4-5 thousand outside. The Zénith de Paris is configured for 8,000 and apparently it wasn't completely full. In any case, the candidates cannot choose where they are going to hold a rally -- they just have to choose the venue that can accommodate the number of people they are expecting. If Marine Le Pen just followed voting patterns, she would not hold a rally in Paris at all since the city never gives more than about 6-7% of the vote to the Front National while France in general is now giving 25% and certain zones 40% or more. But to be an important national candidate, you absolutely have to have a rally in Paris, even though they are hard to afford. On the same day, Jean-Luc Mélenchon had a "mobile rally" on a boat on the Canal Saint Martin and the Canal de l'Ourcq (he started in Bobigny). A thousand people were waiting for him at the Paris stop on Quai de Valmy. Very photogenic, but perhaps not the most effective campaign tactic except for appearing on television. Today, he is holding a rally in Dijon but coupled with 6 "hologram rallies" around France, including Réunion Island. Benoît Hamon is holding an outdoor rally at Place de la République on Wednesday as a last hurrah. If it is not raining, I might try to check it out since I am not too far from there -- but the weather is going back to February temperatures and it might be freezing!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 15:30:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 22:18:28 GMT
Askar, I thought that 6000/month seemed low so I just looked it up. For European parliament deputies: Base salary per month: 8484,04 before tax, 6611,47 net. Plus general allowance (indemnité de frais généraux) 4320€ per month Transport costs to the parliament are paid. Plus, 306€ per day just for showing up. Since they are docked part of that for absence, some turn up and sign in and then leave immediately. They also get 23392€ to pay their parliamentary assistants. Notre Observatoire de la Corruption vous révélait récemment à quel point les les statistiques de présences en commission sont faibles chez les députés européens ! A titre d’exemple, Jean-Luc Mélenchon n’est présent qu’à 12% des commissions, Marine le Pen à 37% des commissions, Vincent Peillon à 48%… For some people, a politician from the left should be dirt poor. JL Mélenchon admits he is well off but he doesn't think below his station to care for the working class. I knew that the net salary of a parliament member was 6000 something. It's 6611.45 €. Good. Jean-Luc Mélenchon didn't choose the amount of his salary. He get the same than the other MP's from the right or from the left. About the allowance, he proposed an amendment for a better control of the use of this allowance, amendment which was rejected by the European People Party (a rightist party incidentally). Parlement européen : les indemnités opaques des députés font polémiqueLors du vote du dernier budget européen, en 2013, le député Jean-Luc Mélenchon avait proposé un amendement instaurant un meilleur contrôle des émoluements parlementaires. Notamment pour les «frais généraux». Mais la droite européenne (le PPE), déjà majoritaire à l'époque, l'avait rejeté.Also, as an elected member a substantial part of his salary goes to his Party, in addition of the normal membership. About his supposedly low attendance, there are at least two websites to record the attendance of the MP's. The Observatoire de la corruption took the one (http://www.votewatch.eu/) which suits them beter. There is one, more detailed, MEP Ranking which is independent of the lobbies www.mepranking.eu/mep.php?id=96742[/i]: JEAN-LUC MELENCHON; ATTENDANCE IN PLENARY SESSIONS: 79% 130 out of 163 sessions attended. PARTICIPATION IN ROLL-CALL VOTES: 85% 4424 out of 5195 votes during the mandate. Obviously, an organization who has for motto "Too much tax, cut public spending" won't have a very positive view on someone who want to raise the tax for the rich.
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Post by bixaorellana on Apr 19, 2017 0:04:10 GMT
"So you think you can France?" When that video ended I wanted to stand up and cheer. It should be required viewing for all citizens who vote in whatever country.
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Post by bjd on Apr 19, 2017 5:36:50 GMT
Askar, I'm not saying that Melenchon is too rich for a left-wing politician. What I don't like are politicians, from left or right, who are selling themselves as caring for the workers while they are well off. Marine le Pen is even worse -- talking about the workers who have lost their jobs, all the while being from a wealthy family and a professional politician all her life.
It's seeing those figures that makes one understand what a sinecure an elected position at the European Parliament is. The only advance has been that in 2009 all of them started to be paid the same. Before that, they were paid according to parliamentary salaries in their home country (Italians earned the most).
And I knew that it was the right-wing bloc that had voted against having its payments reduced.
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Post by whatagain on Apr 19, 2017 5:52:58 GMT
Bjd. Your remark is spot on : being a politician all her life. We have created a system that produces a cast of parasites that do nothing else than politics. And the common people are fed up with just that. These guys choose a career where they only do politics and get paid more and more further up. I think people want to have politicians who have worked who know what our lives are made of. Not a bloody far right who has done nothing else's than speeches and a far left who just opens his mouth. Perso I am sick of it. I have no problem with people being rich but NOT by getting rich with my taxes. It is just too easy.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 8:12:24 GMT
Askar, I'm not saying that Melenchon is too rich for a left-wing politician. What I don't like are politicians, from left or right, who are selling themselves as caring for the workers while they are well off. bjd, I think there is a contradiction between the two sentences. Well off or rich is about the same. It's just a matter of appreciation. A left-wing politician is supposed to care for the workers (Workers of the world, unite!). If you say that Mélenchon (or any other left-wing politician) is not too rich/well off for a left-wing politician (1st sentence), then he can honestly care for the workers without beeing accused of "selling himself as caring for them".(2nd sentence). I hope I make myself clear. That beeing said, I agree with you that politicians in general are too much paid, although mayors of small towns don't get much for all their responsibilities. Editing to add that Mélenchon doesn't own shares. If he was a shareholder it would be in contradiction with what he stands for.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 8:27:29 GMT
Bjd. I have no problem with people being rich but NOT by getting rich with my taxes. It is just too easy. I don't like people getting rich while doing nothing - politicians or shareholders, although to be honest, the best paid politicians get a pitance compared to the obscene salaries of the CEO's of the companies of the CAC40, Dow Jones..
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Post by whatagain on Apr 19, 2017 9:37:43 GMT
Indeed. So we should actually raise teir salaries but ask for work and check and forbid any other kind of retribution. OTOH when one reads that Fillion cannot save any money when earning 7000 € netto per month (minimum) I wonder how much we should pay these guys...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 10:04:41 GMT
It's because his wife is unemployed now.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 10:35:10 GMT
I received my treasure package of political brochures and ballots in the morning mail. I immediately noticed a difference from the past. The "poor" candidates with no public financing used to sometimes print their brochures in half-size format only and sometimes not even in full colour. This time they are all the same size and quality -- four page leaflets.
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Post by bjd on Apr 19, 2017 11:29:08 GMT
I haven't received mine yet. 4 pages each! I won't have time to read them all before Sunday.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 11:39:26 GMT
Well, you've already seen all of page one. Just 3 x 11 more pages to go!
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Post by onlyMark on Apr 19, 2017 13:07:18 GMT
I don't like people getting rich with while doing nothing.......... I certainly object to people giving me money for doing nothing. Or maybe not.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 17:04:27 GMT
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Post by patricklondon on Apr 19, 2017 20:13:01 GMT
Interesting. We get (for parliamentary elections) one free postal delivery per candidate (to a standard specification as to size and weight), and at the polling stations, nothing more than a simple list of candidates and very limited personal details, and those of their agent, and a list of their proposers. Nothing more promotional of individual candidates is allowed within the polling station, and I think they get pretty twitchy about photographs inside a polling station (I don't think I've ever seen here those shots of leading personalities putting their ballots in the box). My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam"
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2017 5:46:44 GMT
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Post by bixaorellana on Apr 20, 2017 5:53:53 GMT
That's pretty nerve wracking!
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Post by whatagain on Apr 20, 2017 9:30:08 GMT
I find it extraordinary that Melenchon is on the level of Fillion ! One guy who should have won 2 fingers in the nose as head of the Right, and one guy who is a troublemaker... I listened to the speeches / ads of the candidates yesterday (well some) and was appalled by Lasalle and Asselineau and Dupont Aignan : what do these guys hope ? What is driving them ? They are absolute losers, with nothing intelligent coming out of their mouth and yet they hang around for decades for some... I also listened to Nathalie Arthaud, who spoke like in 1904 : 'the riches need us ! they are nothing without us, they even need us to cook....' She even used the word 'majordome' (buttler) who in France is still using a buttler ? 0,001 % of the population ? and the 1% who listen to her believe that the riches still have chauffeurs, buttlers, cooks etc ? Who lives in a real world ?
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Post by lagatta on Apr 20, 2017 10:43:11 GMT
I'm sure that there are those among the super-rich who have them, but the majordome/butler would certainly have a different title - one that more accurately describes his or her duties in the contemporary world.
With the preponderance of rail in K2's hood, no surprise to see the school in a former railway freight office. And I see that Hitler moustaches on campaign photos are always in style.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2017 11:01:18 GMT
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