Aleppo

[Deleted]

I just thought I would mention it here before it disappears forever.

[bjd]

Each time there is an atrocity, we say, "Never again", and then it happens again.

[bixaorellana]

Coincidentally, I was reading this article right before opening anyport & seeing this new thread.

Of course it's better than nothing, but it seems exceptionally cruel now to demonstrate that ceasefires are possible in order to allow civilians to evacuate -- now that there are so many fewer of them to evacuate.

[Deleted]

Ceasefires are always a good thing. Unfortunately, 260,000 people have already died in Syria, many of them in Aleppo. Children seem to die much more easily.

[fumobici]

Incredibly brave Canadian reporter Eva Bartlett speaks about what she has personally witnessed and discovered reporting from Syria. The story you get from the Guardian, the BBC, or the NYT is deliberate misinformation--lies if you will. We are not being told the truth.

[bjd]

Well -- interesting but she sounds as though she has her own perspective. She doesn't mention the Iranian or Hizbollah militias fighting on the side of Assad. And if you look her up, she writes for Russia Today and reports from "occupied Palestine". So calling herself an "independent journalist" who claims that all the mainstream media and their reporters are liars is tendentious, to say the least.

[lagatta]

Eva Bartlett was a fearless reporter from Gaza during the Israeli army assault a couple of years ago (I do think Palestine is occupied, and no, I'm not antisemitic or anti-Israeli. Canada and other American countries to our south have also treated Indigenous peoples very shabbily).

But she is far too cosy with Assad, who is responsible for many serious human rights violations such as torture and long imprisonments - of the same order as that of Mandela - of dissidents.

I'm very concerned about what will happen now. Is Aleppo the oldest city in the world? Certainly one of them.

[fumobici]

Dec 13, 2016 20:38:29 GMT bjd said:

Well -- interesting but she sounds as though she has her own perspective. She doesn't mention the Iranian or Hizbollah militias fighting on the side of Assad. And if you look her up, she writes for Russia Today and reports from "occupied Palestine". So calling herself an "independent journalist" who claims that all the mainstream media and their reporters are liars is tendentious, to say the least.

I don't find it alarming in the least that she has worked for RT, there's been lots of great reporting done under that banner, in the same way that I don't hold it against reporters who've worked for the NYT or WaPo, who also have published quality reporting in spite of other times being propaganda mouthpieces. And I applaud reporting from the territories the Israelis have stolen from the Palestinians being datelined from "Occupied Palestine", that to me is just telling it like it is. It isn't legally part of Israel and it is illegally occupied by them. Seems fair.

[fumobici]

Assad is here clearly a "lesser evil". It's not that he's a good guy, or that he should be applauded, just rather that, besides being the head of the sole legal UN and internationally recognized government, he is opposed by true monsters like Daesh and associated jihadi groups. Which makes him, imperfect as his regime is, by far the best realistic alternative that currently exists for the state of Syria. The first order of business for Syria to begin recovering from its current tragic state is to wipe out the jihadi crazies (tragically supported by the west and its Gulf State allies), end the large-scale hostilities so that some semblance of peace and normalcy can be restored, humanitarian aid can be brought in safely and the situation stabilized. At that point, better alternatives can be explored.

[bjd]

I agree that the West Bank and Gaza are areas occupied by the Israelis. I just found that this reporter sounded terribly one-sided and being "independent" does not necessarily rhyme with "objective". And discrediting journalists who have gone into Syria the way she does, insulting the Syrian Human Rights Observatory ("one guy in Coventry"), claiming that the white helmets are just pretending to dig people out of the ruins... Frankly, she sounded just like the Russian ambassador to the UN during his speech there yesterday.

That said, I do agree that the rebel opposition in Syria has been taken over by jihadis and crazies, mostly supported by Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states. The US not wanting to get involved in another war left the original Syrian opposition to Assad helpless and the jihadis have moved in.

However, a "lesser evil" being a Syrian president who dropped chemical bombs on Syrians is a stretch. Does he really expect that everybody is going to support him when it eventually ends?

[bjd]

Some coverage of social and other media:

france24www.france24.com/en/mediawatch/20161214-divergent-coverage-aleppo

[mossie]

Let me paint a Doomsday scenario, we are on the verge of Armageddon. Brought on prophetically by the "last Trump", and fought on the site of a present day town in Israel on the road out of the troubled West Bank.

[Deleted]

Tonight the Eiffel Tower will remain dark in solidarity with Aleppo. Fat lot of good it will do them.

[Deleted]

Welcome to the Aleppo that no longer exists.

[onlyMark]

On a personal note, the main reason we ended up living in Jordan was because Syria at the time was easily accessible. Both I and Mrs M have been there and we could say it is our favourite Arabic country. I have also vivid memories of Aleppo, Palmyra, Homs, Hama and especially Damascus. Seeing the destruction of such important and special places by stupid people, no matter which side they are on, leaves me in despair.
The sooner the country becomes stable, the better.
Plus, at the risk of maybe aggravating anyone on here, or elsewhere for that matter, no matter which race, nation, religion you are, just because some mythical and supposed omnipotent being said that bit of land over there is yours, is not a convincing argument. Try the defence in a Court that you killed someone and took their possessions and now live in their house because some ethereal being and the voices in your head said you could........ then see how far that would get you.

[bjd]

My in-laws lived in Beirut for 8 years and often visited Syria. I have a beautiful Syrian kilim, one of several they bought in either Damascus or Aleppo, on one of my walls.

In the fall of 2010, my husband and I planned to go to Syria on vacation -- it being the Arabic country I really wanted to visit. I had to go to Canada to see my mother so didn't have time to apply for the visa to be able to go that year before winter. So we had intended to go in the spring of 2011. I still regret not having been there and now never will.

[lagatta]

A column by a journalist at La Presse in Montréal, whose mother is from Alep (I believe her father is also Syrian).

www.lapresse.ca/debats/chroniques/rima-elkouri/201612/14/01-5051551-o-alep-mon-alep.php

[Deleted]

I have the Lonely Planet guide to Syria. It is probably out of date now.

[onlyMark]

Name me a guide book that isn't.

[bjd]

Syria is mostly out of the news these days, but here is an interesting article about the way the White Helmets were shown:

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/18/syria-white-helmets-conspiracy-theories

[lagatta]

For many years now, there has been a Restaurant Alep in my neighbourhood, with the more casual bistro Le Petit Alep next door. And now there is a new "Sham" (which is Damascus in Arabic, nothing to do with fakery), more a lunch counter and takeaway, but also very good food.

There is a longstanding Lebano-Syrian community in Montréal, originally settling where I live (guess they liked the Italians' Mediterranean groceries?) but now spread to other areas and to the northern suburb of Laval. Originally most were Christians from Mont Liban, but in recent decades there are more Muslims as well, and people from small religious minorities. In general, a highly-educated community.