|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 17:39:50 GMT
This has really been getting my goat lately: adjectives that are used (pretty well exclusively) with one gender or another. Because I am a woman I find a lot of the ones for females to be annoying. When was the last time you heard of a man being described as "headstrong" or "feisty". It's just laziness, I suppose; people are still living with long-past expectations of how the sexes are supposed to behave. At the moment, the only exclusively male adjective I can come up with is "macho".
Other girly words: shrill, hormonal.
I've heard "ballsy" used for both sexes, which I think is fine.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 18:04:07 GMT
In France the main gender complaint is not really the exact choice of words but the choice of subject -- for example the fact that if a female parliamentarian walks into the Assemblée Nationale without perfect hair and makeup or with a frumpy outfit, it will be mentioned immediately while the 75% male members will almost never get hassled about such things.
Of course in normal situations, it is 10 times worse. Have you ever heard a man described as perky?
I was reading an interesting article today (was it The Guardian?) about the struggle in Britain for women to be able to wear normal shoes instead of heels or not to wear lipstick.
|
|
|
|
Post by fumobici on Feb 16, 2017 18:24:18 GMT
At the moment, the only exclusively male adjective I can come up with is "macho". Off the top of my head, meathead, oaf, m**********r, asshole I seldom or never heard used descriptively for the fairer sex. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 18:31:03 GMT
Fairer sex? Perhaps one of the most sexist terms to have ever been invented! It implies that physical appearance is what counts... but only for women, since the unfairer sex apparently does not worry about this. Let the pretty women slap the shit out of the ugly ones to get to the top of the heap!
|
|
|
|
Post by fumobici on Feb 16, 2017 18:31:25 GMT
I like high heels and lots of makeup for the same reason a like suits and ties on men, it warns me away from the dimbulbs who think dressing like that is a good idea before they get too near to me and can then spoil my day.
|
|
|
|
Post by fumobici on Feb 16, 2017 18:32:55 GMT
Fairer sex? Perhaps one of the most sexist terms to have ever been invented! It implies that physical appearance is what counts... but only for women, since the unfairer sex apparently does not worry about this. Let the pretty women slap the shit out of the ugly ones to get to the top of the heap! Sorry, irony tags got left out! |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 18:59:43 GMT
To be fair, fumo, those were all nouns and not adjectives you gave as examples. And I hear women call each other motherfuckers amd assholes every day.
|
|
|
|
Post by onlyMark on Feb 16, 2017 20:27:12 GMT
A- Adorable, Amazing, Attractive, Alluring, Audacious, Adaptable, Adventurous, Affable, Affectionate, Ambitious, Amusing, Awesome
B- Beautiful, Bold, Brainy, Bright, Breathtaking, Blazing, Bubbly, Brazen, Brave, Broad-minded
C- Calm, Caring, Cool, Cheerful, Charming, Confident, Cute, Considerate, Creative, Compassionate
D- Daring, Divine, Dauntless, Delightful, Dazzling, Dedicated, Delectable, Deserving, Determined, Diligent, Dynamic
E- Enthusiastic, Energetic, Enchanting, Encouraging, Enthralling, Elegant, Excellent, Efficacious, Elegant, Exceptional, Easygoing, Exuberant
F- Fascinating, Forgiving, Fantastic, Funny, Flamboyant, Fearless, Frank
G- Gorgeous, Gifted, Genius, Glorious, Glowing, Gracious, Great, Genuine, Generous, Gregarious
H- Happy, Honest, Helpful, Heavenly, Hilarious, Humorous, Hearty, Humanitarian
I- Incredible, Inspirational, Inspiring, Impeccable, Ingenious, Impressive, Innovative, Insightful, Incandescent, Intense, Intrepid, Impartial, Imaginative, Independent, Intuitive, Inventive, Intelligent
J- Jolly, Joyful, Jubilant, Jovial, Joyous
K- Keen, Kind, Kindhearted, Knowledgeable
L- Lively, Lovable, Lovely, Luscious, Loyal
M- Marvelous, Majestic, Motivating, Moral, Modest, Magnanimous
N- Nubile, Natural, Nice, Noble, Neat
O- Outstanding, Obliging, Optimistic, Open, Open-minded,
P- Positive, Passionate, Patient, Perfect, Progressive, Productive, Placid, Phenomenal, Plucky, Persuasive, Philosophical, Polite, Practical
Q- Quiet, Quirky
R- Ravishing, Radiant, Rightful, Resolute, Responsible, Reliable, Reserved, Romantic
S- Sweet, Strong, Stunning, Spirited, Sincere, Special, Smart, Sensible, Sensitive, Shy, Straightforward, Sympathetic, Scintillating, Sensuous
T- Thrilling, Tenacious, Talented, Trustworthy, Thoughtful
U- Unselfish, Upbeat, Uplifting
V- Vivacious, Vigorous, Versatile
W- Witty, Wise, Wild, Worthy, Wonderful, Welcoming, Warmhearted, Willing
X- Xenodochial, Xenial
Y- Youthful
Z- Zesty
I think the majority of these are gender relative and I can't really see the problem in calling a woman any of them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 20:45:52 GMT
Really? You're really reaching, there, Mark. I might give you "vivacious" and "luscious", but....
|
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Feb 16, 2017 21:01:38 GMT
Excellent OP, although perhaps overly kind in ascribing sexist vocabulary to laziness.  In a written conversation recently with another woman about Elizabeth Warren, she said that Warren is "too shrill". Warren actually has a pleasant (albeit non-masculine) speaking voice even when she is being adamant. Perhaps if Warren passed around some petit fours and tea while speaking about important government issues, she'd be perceived as less shrill.  As you can probably tell, what particularly annoyed me was that the dismissive adjective and what I see as the attendant sexism came from another woman. |
|
|
|
Post by onlyMark on Feb 16, 2017 21:22:06 GMT
Lizzy, are you saying they are the only two out of all those that apply to women?
For a start I'm not adorable, attractive or alluring, and that's just the first line.
Nor beautiful, breathtaking, blazing or bubbly.
And you think I'm reaching. I think you're just looking for negatives and ignoring all the positive adjectives.
Do women object to positive ones as well? Or are they acceptable, even though they are gender specific?
|
|
|
|
Post by onlyMark on Feb 16, 2017 21:35:17 GMT
As you can probably tell, what particularly annoyed me was that the dismissive adjective and what I see as the attendant sexism came from another woman. That beggars the question in my male brain if she 'should have known better'? So is it less acceptable, more acceptable or equally unacceptable to say what she did as opposed to a male saying it? Is female on female sexism/male on male sexism perceived as different to male on female (which is the usual thing)/female on male sexism? (i.e. opposite sex sexism). |
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Feb 16, 2017 22:06:32 GMT
people are still living with long-past expectations of how the sexes are supposed to behave. Mark, it's not a matter of more or less anything, simply that I was surprised that another woman would have what I perceived as a reflexive negative reaction to a woman in power. I brought it up because I felt it fitted in with the subject of this thread. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 22:17:58 GMT
Mark, all I'm saying is that you were really reaching when you came up with that list. We call men attractive, energetic, progressive, etc., all the time. Maybe not you specifically, but that's not the point. I'm not shrill, my voice is quite low and modulated, but it's annoying to me that it's used in describing women negatively. Someone can attack Elizabeth Warren for her politics all they want, but when they call her shrill they are saying she doesn't know her place. You know, uppity. Words like the ones I listed, and kerouac's "perky" are meant to be subtle putdowns. They say that women are not meant to be taken as seriously as men, and that's a problem. No matter how "complimentary" people think they're being.
Yes, bixa, I think sometimes it is laziness when it comes to writers. What prompted this was a theatre review I read that called the main character "headstrong". This from a rather progressive, lesbian reviewer in town. Words like that are just shorthand for "I can't be bothered at the moment" when a much more nuanced approach to the discussion of the character was called for. I was disappointed she went there.
|
|
|
|
Post by rikita on Feb 18, 2017 23:55:53 GMT
i very much dislike it when (fortunately not often) people say agnes (or any other girl) is being "zickig" - it is a bit of a mixture of bitchy, petulant and silly, and is a word usually only used for girls, coming from a word for a female goat (the word itself, "zicke", is also sometimes used to refer to women that behave that way). it's not like agnes is always behaving all that well, but this word gives the behaviour a specific interpretation and makes it sound like it is typical female, when of course boys can behave the very same way (and actually, i think agnes is not particularly "zickig" anyway). there is the word "bockig", coming from a word for a male goat, and interestingly this word can be used for both boys and girls - and somehow the focus there is more on the stubborness, it somehow does not feel quite as negative.
|
|
|
|
Post by rikita on Feb 19, 2017 0:00:08 GMT
apart from adjectives ...
today, at the doctor's office (checking if all was healing well after her surgery) agnes had insisted on wearing her new viking head and sword and shield, and as always was dressed in "boy clothes". there was a mom with a daughter, maybe a year older, dressed in pink ... they came back out of the doctor's office while we were still in the waiting room and speaking about something that the doctor didn't have in the box with presents (each kid can chose something after the appointment) that the girl originally had planned to pick that day. so agnes asked "what did the doctor not have?" and the mom said to her "a ring, you know, a ring for the finger, for girls."
so she assumed agnes was a boy - and felt the need to explain to her that a ring is a toy that girls like to pick ...
|
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Feb 19, 2017 0:09:26 GMT
Or she was reprimanding you for not dressing your daughter "correctly". (I'm thinking a negative word right this minute that is usually only used to describe women!  ) |
|
|
|
Post by lagatta on Feb 19, 2017 1:26:59 GMT
Rikita, when you say head do you mean Helm? With wings or horns?
b
And yes, the male oaf stereotype (especially in publicity) is annoying as well, but I do see more stereotyping of women in "serious" political news. Hillary Clinton also got called shrill, though while I found her voice a bit grating (like many male voices, and it was probably just the flat Midwestern accent) she didn't have a high-pitched "shrill" voice. I hate to think how a woman with the NYC voices of either Bernie or the Donald would have been treated...
And isn't feisty also ageist?
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 3:49:46 GMT
And isn't feisty also ageist? I guess it can be. I wasn't thinking particularly of older women. I think I was called feisty back in the day - because of my size. |
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Feb 19, 2017 4:33:20 GMT
I always think of it as one of those words that's a (possibly) unconscious put-down of the "You're cute when you're angry" sort.
But on a darker level, it's an insidious way of reminding a woman she is powerless -- "Your pugnaciousness/passion/fury/outrage/determination is so cute in the same way a toy poodle barking at a steam roller is cute."
|
|
|
|
Post by rikita on Feb 19, 2017 9:07:23 GMT
Rikita, when you say head do you mean Helm? With wings or horns? b And yes, the male oaf stereotype (especially in publicity) is annoying as well, but I do see more stereotyping of women in "serious" political news. Hillary Clinton also got called shrill, though while I found her voice a bit grating (like many male voices, and it was probably just the flat Midwestern accent) she didn't have a high-pitched "shrill" voice. I hate to think how a woman with the NYC voices of either Bernie or the Donald would have been treated... And isn't feisty also ageist? yeah sorry, that was a typo, i meant to write helmet. or maybe i meant to write hat, and that's why i wrote head by mistake, because they sound kind of similar ... |
|
|
|
Post by lagatta on Feb 19, 2017 12:34:14 GMT
Yes, feisty is definitely also on the vertically-challenged side.
|
|
