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Post by onlyMark on Apr 13, 2017 13:42:17 GMT
It's obvious from the news reports about Syria that the solution of both sides (or are there actually more than two sides?) to their problems is to kill each other. Unfortunately this seems to happen far too often where violence is used to overcome a situation where there is a conflict of ideals, opinions or whatever you want to call it. It appears that when one side is particularly intransigent and is opposed to diplomatic solutions, the next step is to remove the problem by resorting to using "extreme prejudice".
Violence though comes in many forms and degrees, from slapping an unruly child, to world war, and all grades in between and either side of them. Some people have a default option of as soon as they don't get their way, they become violent. The opposite is also true in the rare case when a person feels violence is never justified. My question is, are there some forms of violence that are justified?
Where do you personally draw the line..... you would do one thing but not another? Would you kill a living being, like a cockroach, but not a human? If so, where is the line? What would you kill, and possibly why, and what would you not? Are their circumstances where killing a baby seal is Ok? Other animals? ......A rapist? What about violence that doesn't end in a death then? Someone is coming at you with a knife and you happen to have a baseball bat in your hand (in the UK, substitute that for a cricket bat. Though you don't see many people at all walking down the High Street popping to the butchers with one). Give him/her a good thwack - or run away because violence isn't justified?
This has come from a discussion with some friends, one of which didn't condone violence in any form. Not even to protect themselves or another person.
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Violence
Apr 13, 2017 13:50:23 GMT
via mobile
Post by whatagain on Apr 13, 2017 13:50:23 GMT
I am sure I can kill a human being. Some humans are not much more worthy than cockroaches. Yet I don't kill cockroaches.
But I need a good reason for that and would do in cold blood. I am also quite certain I would not get violent in hot situation as I control myself quite well even half drunk.
yes rape or mistreating a child or threatening my family or myself would be the triggers.
And yes I would be ok fir death penalty in these cases. Makes me look far rightist though.
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Post by onlyMark on Apr 13, 2017 15:29:06 GMT
As for the death penalty, didn't I read somewhere it actually costs more to kill someone than to keep them in prison for the rest of their life? Can't be sure.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Apr 18, 2017 18:14:26 GMT
Are there some forms of violence that are justified?
Where do you personally draw the line..... you would do one thing but not another?7
Would you kill a living being, like a cockroach, but not a human? If so, where is the line? What would you kill, and possibly why, and what would you not? I kill slugs and snails using a nematode solution that I water into the garden, and I scrape blackfly and greenfly off my plants if they get infested. Sometimes I kill swarming ants on hot summer days in the garden...but usually I leave them to it. I expect that I'd kill rats or mice if the house became infested, but I'd pay somebody else to do it. I wouldn't kill a human.
Are their circumstances where killing a baby seal is Ok? No Other animals? I eat meat, but if I had to kill the animal myself I would become a vegetarian......A rapist? No
What about violence that doesn't end in a death then? Someone is coming at you with a knife and you happen to have a baseball bat in your hand (in the UK, substitute that for a cricket bat. Though you don't see many people at all walking down the High Street popping to the butchers with one). Give him/her a good thwack - or run away because violence isn't justified? I'm a coward so I'd probably run for it if I was on my own. If my beloved or others were in danger I might have a go but I'd rather just get everyone away from the violent person.
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Post by onlyMark on Apr 18, 2017 20:48:35 GMT
Good answers Cheery. Probably along the line of many. I also eat meat, though not that much, but if I had to kill it myself, then no. The baseball bat answer is sensible and shows you'd protect others if necessary, which is good - but who then would stop this fictitious man brandishing a knife and threatening people? Especially if he won't listen to reason. I presume someone else using non-lethal means like a stun gun or pepper spray etc?
The killing a baby seal thing - I'm sure you'd appreciate there are circumstances where you'd kill it, there can't be a blanket 'no'. In the unlikely event you needed it for food and the pelt, I'm sure. Again with not killing a rapist, you say 'no'. I bet you would, you know. Many, many women get attacked, it is not uncommon. If any one of them had the means to seriously injure the person or kill him at the time of the attack (even if they had no intention to kill but just get them to stop), I'm sure they would. Even vegans. Even more so if protecting a loved one. Do I believe in the death penalty? No. Do I believe that violence can be justified? Certainly. But the criteria needs to involve something immediate. Not later as punishment.
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Post by rikita on Apr 21, 2017 11:39:40 GMT
killing animals for food is ok in principle (of course hopefully not endangered ones, and not raising them under very bad circumstances first, though i must admit sometimes i just buy the cheap meat, where the animals have probably not had a nice life), and i think i could kill them myself if i had to, though it might be hard at first. and i have no problem killing mosquitoes or ticks. other animals ... depends ... i might feel a bit bad killing ants infesting the house, but feel worse having them in the house ... i usually prefer to carry spiders outside, but sometimes i will just vacuum them up because i don't like touching them ... if there were mice in my apartment i suppose i'd try traps that catch them alive first, but would have them killed if those don't work ... etc. ... also if a bigger animal attacked me or someone i care about (a dog, for example), and there was no other way to get them to stop (and i was able to kill them) i suppose i'd do that, even if i'd feel bad about it - being seriously injured or worse, having for example my child seriously injured would feel worse.
as for people - i think in defense (of self or others) if that is the only way (or there is just no time to think about it, and i suppose if you are attacked and in danger of dying or similar you don't really have time to think about) i think it could be justified, though there still should be a lot of inquiry done about it, it shouldn't be taken lightly, and i am pretty sure it would haunt me a lot if i was in that situation. in those circumstances that would also include rapists ... but it has to be a very last resort.
killing for revenge/punishment, on the other hand, i am very much against, and thus also against the death penalty.
and if i could run, i suppose i'd always run. i am not even sure if in the situation i'd really be able to defend myself, i am not much of a fighting person, i might just freeze ... i hope if my child was in danger the instinct to protect her would be stronger than my fear ...
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Apr 21, 2017 13:11:57 GMT
Mark...I expect that you're correct. I could only answer how I felt at the time the baby seal thing...hmmmm I don't think that I'd have the courage to kill it, even if it was in pain. I can't see myself in the situation where I would be expected to..I'd be more likely to contact the authorities.... Again with the rape thing. If I came upon somebody being attacked I might try to stop things by getting help. If a child was involved I'd probably wade in by trying to haul the attacker off the victim whilst shouting for help...but kill them? It would only be accidental...who really knows how they would react in this sort of situation?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 13:18:56 GMT
I can't imagine killing someone in the heat of the moment in real life (I say in real life because I have done it in dreams a couple times and that left me extremely troubled and woke me up immediately). I am against the death penalty, but that of course does not stop me from fantasizing on occasion of sneaky and untraceable ways to kill horrible people -- either political figures and maybe even sometimes someone whom I know personally.
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Post by onlyMark on Apr 21, 2017 14:11:03 GMT
As someone once said, "Don't go on a random killing spree. I've got a list."
In conclusion, I think we all appear to have our heads screwed on right. Apart from K2, that is. Just checking.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 15:16:22 GMT
I wasn't sure where to post this but, this is as pertinent a thread as any to put it.
Just this a.m. in Washington, D.C. 5 people were shot by a lone gunman, injuring 5 ,2 were critically wounded. One of the victims was Congressman Steven Scalise from Louisiana (Majority Whip of the House of Representatives).
Reportedly, several witnesses heard the gunman inquire as to whether or not the group of Congressmen were Democrats or Republicans at the gathering which took place at the MLB field where there was a practice session being held for a charity benefit that is an annual event. The gunman then reportedly went to his vehicle and returned to the stadium and began shooting at the group which were identified as Republicans. Children were also present. Many unanswered questions and I can only imagine as to how this will "spin out" in the media.
CRAZY, CRAZY....
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Post by kerouac2 on Jun 14, 2017 16:18:00 GMT
It's terrible that the first thought to come to mind from most of those outside the country (and probably a lot of the people in the country) is "Just another day in America." While there are shootings all the time (almost) everywhere in the world, the gun culture of the United States -- a country that should know better -- has guaranteed that these incidents are never a surprise.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 16:41:50 GMT
This is true. However, the unfortunate aspect of this particular incident is the "hay" that will (and, already has) be made of the politics of it in an already horribly "us vs. them" bipartisan divide in the country.
During a news conference this a.m. shortly after the incident occurred the Democratic governor stated that "93 million people a day are killed in the US due to gun violence". After he said this for the third time, a reporter finally questioned the inaccuracy of his statement. That statement alone is giving the Republicans so much fodder. This is not at all what the country needs in terms of the already existing divide on just this issue alone.
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Post by bjd on Jun 14, 2017 17:41:05 GMT
I just had a look on the website of The Independent and the first headline is about shootings at a UPS warehouse in San Francisco. Then there was a disgruntled worker in Florida who shot some people last week.
Just another day in the States, indeed.
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Post by mossie on Jun 14, 2017 18:40:45 GMT
93 million killed per day!!!!, that should get rid of the American problem in a few days.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 21:06:39 GMT
My aspirations toward notoriety or singleness of purpose never included becoming an endangered species of this nature...shucks.
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