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Post by kerouac2 on Sept 14, 2020 17:10:40 GMT
I have been amused in recent days at how hard the French reporters try to pronounce American place names properly.
Covering the recent BLM demonstrations in Kentucky, they keep saying that they are in Lewis-ville instead of Louie-ville. It is rather ironic how certain place names like Louisville live a life of their own.
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Post by bjd on Sept 14, 2020 17:59:37 GMT
I think allowances should be made for place names and surnames even though reporters should make an effort to find out the correct pronunciation. Mind you, I wouldn't know how to pronounce St Louis -- is it Louee or Louiss?
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Post by kerouac2 on Sept 14, 2020 18:15:00 GMT
I think allowances should be made for place name I would make those allowances if they were not reporting from the city in question. I think that some of them had learned the correct pronunciation but used the wrong one just because it would create less controversy with cosmopolitan French speaking audiences who think they know better. As for Saint Louis, it is pronounced as Lewis. Now we can wonder why the residents prononce the name of their state of Missouri as Missourah.
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Post by questa on Sept 15, 2020 0:09:52 GMT
From my schoolgirl French- long time ago. Is this well known in France?
A farmer was taking his donkey to the market. He makes a little song.
Je suis que je suis Je n'est pas que je suis Car si je suis que je suis Je n'est suis pas que je suis
Can you translate to English?
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 15, 2020 1:32:49 GMT
Mind you, I wouldn't know how to pronounce St Louis -- is it Louee or Louiss? Kerouac says lewis, but honestly ~ I've never been entirely sure.
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Post by lagatta on Sept 15, 2020 3:24:35 GMT
Obviously, here it is Saint-Louis.
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Post by kerouac2 on Sept 15, 2020 5:08:23 GMT
I imagine the proper transcription is something else, but it would be a play on words about "suis" -- which is the conjugation of two completely different verbs. Je suis = I am or Je suis = I follow The thing to know is whether he was following his donkey to the market. Kerouac says lewis, but honestly ~ I've never been entirely sure. Kerouac looked it up.
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Post by bjd on Sept 15, 2020 6:02:48 GMT
Didn't there use to be an Anyporter from St Louis?
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Post by whatagain on Sept 15, 2020 7:31:00 GMT
From my schoolgirl French- long time ago. Is this well known in France? A farmer was taking his donkey to the market. He makes a little song. Je suis que je suis Je n'est pas que je suis Car si je suis que je suis Je n'est suis pas que je suis Can you translate to English? Je suis qui je suis. I am who i am. Je ne suis pas qui je suis. I am not the one who follows me. Car si je suis qui je je suis. Because if i am the one who follows myself. Je ne suis pas qui je suis. I am not who i am. Or the other way round 😄😄 We have this problem with the bible. Seems jesus says : je suis celui qui suis.
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Post by whatagain on Sept 15, 2020 7:34:44 GMT
I think that some of them had learned the correct pronunciation but used the wrong one just because it would create less controversy with cosmopolitan French speaking audiences who think they know better.
BS. French cant pronounce. Fullstop. I tell them how to pronounce my name, they need 4 times repeating it then revert to how they want to say it. Which is how they read it. Since my name is flemish, that is a catastrophy.
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Post by bjd on Sept 15, 2020 11:27:12 GMT
I think that some of them had learned the correct pronunciation but used the wrong one just because it would create less controversy with cosmopolitan French speaking audiences who think they know better. BS. French cant pronounce. Fullstop. I tell them how to pronounce my name, they need 4 times repeating it then revert to how they want to say it. Which is how they read it. Since my name is flemish, that is a catastrophy. I agree, Whatagain. You should see what they do to Polish names!
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Post by tod2 on Sept 15, 2020 11:36:41 GMT
It always amuses me when I hear chefs/cooks pronounce Worcestershire sauce, as War-sester - shyer- sauce, instead of the correct "Wooster Sauce". I've never heard English people say Shire at the end of the name.
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Post by kerouac2 on Sept 15, 2020 11:43:01 GMT
Of course we could go on to the topic of how foreigners pronounce French names, but that would be mean.
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Post by questa on Sept 15, 2020 11:56:10 GMT
Je suis qui je suis. I am who i am. Je ne suis pas qui je suis. I am not the one who follows me. Car si je suis qui je je suis. Because if i am the one who follows myself. Je ne suis pas qui je suis. I am not who i am. I am what I am, I am not what I follow For if I am what I follow, I am not what I am. Deep, very deep...
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Post by onlyMark on Sept 15, 2020 14:08:59 GMT
It always amuses me when I hear chefs/cooks pronounce Worcestershire sauce, as War-sester - shyer- sauce, instead of the correct "Wooster Sauce". I've never heard English people say Shire at the end of the name. In my neck of the woods we might say "wustasha" sauce but usually 'wusta' sauce.
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Post by kerouac2 on Sept 15, 2020 14:59:17 GMT
The French have devised a shortcut for it. Most of them just call it "sauce anglaise" (not to be confused with crème anglaise).
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 15, 2020 15:30:35 GMT
~!~ How does that work, exactly? Didn't there use to be an Anyporter from St Louis? Yes, the lovely Lola, who disappeared rather abruptly as far as I can remember. In fairness, by the time we're adults, we're pretty well hard-wired to believe our own mother tongues and pronunciations are the only right way to speak. I think that's why it's so hard for us to lose our accents when speaking a foreign language. Also, some sounds simply don't exist in some languages. I've noticed that even quick learners of English here in Mexico have a terrible time with any word that has the "ir" sound in it: girl, world, squirrel, etc. You can almost see them fighting their own brains, which are telling them that such a sound couldn't possibly be right. Certainly that's how I feel when confronted with French.
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Post by kerouac2 on Sept 15, 2020 15:43:51 GMT
On top of that, if you learn a 3rd language as an adult, it is almost always heavily accented with the second language that you learned. I knew an American who had learned to speak German and then learned to speak French. Although his French was comprehensible, it came out with one of the strongest German accents that I have ever heard.
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Post by onlyMark on Sept 15, 2020 19:42:09 GMT
if you ever want to hear German spoken with an East Midlands accent, I'm your man.
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Post by lagatta on Sept 15, 2020 22:59:59 GMT
And Spanish?
I wound up finding an Argentine tutor for Spanish, as all the Latin American shops I patronised laughed that I was Argentinian, though they doubtless knew I wasn't. It was the strong Italian influence on my Spanish. Much less influence from French, none whatsoever from English. English filed into the same slot as Dutch and German.
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Post by onlyMark on Sept 16, 2020 6:09:42 GMT
I'm not fluent enough in Spanish to do more than string odd words together.
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Post by mickthecactus on Sept 16, 2020 12:09:14 GMT
Dos cervezas por favor.
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Post by onlyMark on Sept 16, 2020 12:19:57 GMT
...y una packet of crisps.
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Post by lagatta on Sept 16, 2020 13:19:08 GMT
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Post by mossie on Sept 16, 2020 14:12:04 GMT
It's all double Dutch to me
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Post by lagatta on Sept 16, 2020 21:09:34 GMT
Dutch/Flemish is about the closest language to English; the only continental language closer to English is West Frisian. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Frisian_language Of course Dutch is also close to German, and especially dialects on the border area.
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Post by lugg on Sept 23, 2020 10:48:22 GMT
Dutch/Flemish is about the closest language to English; the only continental language closer to English is West Frisian Well that surprised me. Looking at the link I can see that some words are quite similar and probably would have been more so centuries ago. I always thought the closest language was Scots but I suppose that depends on whether you define Scots as a national language. I can understand most of this fairly easily, sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_leid
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Post by kerouac2 on Sept 23, 2020 13:40:01 GMT
Lagatta did say "continental" language.
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Post by lagatta on Sept 23, 2020 22:22:15 GMT
Yes, I deliberately said that. I'd never disregard either Scots or "Irish English" or whatever it is officially called. There are island Celts in my family tree (as well as Bretons) but their native languages were the respective forms of Gaelic (separate languages, but high mutual intelligibility, especially in neighbouring regions and among some fisherfolk).
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Post by lugg on Sept 24, 2020 17:49:34 GMT
Ah yes of course... I missed the continental part.
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