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Grief
May 4, 2018 13:28:04 GMT
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Post by Kimby on May 4, 2018 13:28:04 GMT
Having lived almost 60 years with no deaths in my immediate family, I was unprepared for the emotions that enveloped me when first my Dad died in 2013, and then my Mom in 2015.
Dad was the single most important person in my life and I miss him every day. My mom-grief is more sporadic, and hits me when I least expect it.
Though I didn’t wail and tear my hair and sink into black bouts of depression after their deaths, I think I was affected more than I realized. Mr. Kimby recently said that I’ve been “a sad girl” for the past few years.
After our initial cry in each other’s arms, I mostly have kept my grieving to myself, with big silent tears slipping down my cheeks at bedtime when the distractions of the day go away and my mind returns to those I’ve lost. Or I sit on a chairlift remembering my skiing parents and ache for their non-existence.
But for the most part, their being dead actually isn’t a whole lot different from living apart from them since I was in my 20’s. Until the finality sinks in again. I still feel like they’ll walk through the door again one of these days...
Last year, after Mr. Kimby’s “sad girl” remark, I mentioned my grief/depression to my doctor at my annual physical and she offered to prescribe an antidepressant or refer me to a talk-therapist. It felt good to have options, though I didn’t act on either of them.
This year, when I returned for my physical, we had lost both of Mr. Kimby’s parents (and both of our cats, too), but I felt like the cloud had lifted a bit, and told her so.
That admission - that I’m getting over my grief - seemed to trigger a new wave of grief over the next few weeks, and I was weepy for awhile again.
Grief is a strange beast. Anyone else having these issues?
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Grief
May 4, 2018 13:40:07 GMT
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Post by Kimby on May 4, 2018 13:40:07 GMT
Part of my grief struggle has been with SO MANY losses in a relatively short time. Not “just” my parents, but having to liquidate the family home, the only home I’d known, and the family business, and put down the old family dog. (And our cats both dying, and losing my in laws...). Each new loss seemed to kick me in the gut, and rip the scab off the partially healed previous loss.
There was talk of selling the family cabin, too, which was too much for me to bear on top of all the other losses, so even though none of us lives closer than 7 1/2 hours drive away, my sisters agreed to keep it for awhile, and we’ve formed an LLC to own and manage it. I get there once or twice a year, and the place is falling apart faster than we can fix it, but it has been nice to still own this place that meant so much to Mom and Dad, and where so many of my childhood memories were formed.
And when we DO decide to sell it, it will be for the value of the lakefront lot (the cabin itself is a “tear down” in real estate parlance) and we 3 daughters will use the funds to finance the kind of family trips that our parents used to love pulling together for our family.
I’m finding my connections to my sisters have become so much more important to me now than ever.
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Grief
May 4, 2018 15:09:12 GMT
Post by kerouac2 on May 4, 2018 15:09:12 GMT
This is an excellent subject for discussion, Kimby.
The only person whose loss caused me extreme grief was my grandmother. As many people know, total affection often skips a generation, and my grandmother adored me just as I adored her. The fact that I took care of my mother for eleven years (2005-2016) impressed certain people, but I should mention that I took care of my grandmother for her eight final years (1983-1991). Yes, people, I have not had much of a life. It's surprising that I ever found the time to get on an airplane.
Anyway, my grief only displayed itself to me when I was lying in bed at night and also in my dreams -- haunted by my grandmother for at least ten years. When I dreamt of her, I always knew she was dead, so I was extra careful with the weird idea that dead people are more fragile than the officially living. But dead or alive, she loved me as much as ever. The most awful dreams were always when I would suddenly remember that she was in a nursing home but had forgotten to visit her for months. (I didn't see her every day like my mother, but I rented a car to go to her isolated establishment in the outer suburbs every two weeks to take her to a restaurant and sometimes a shopping mall.) Anyway, I rarely see her in dreams these days.
My mother's death was not traumatic at all for me, because she was "living dead" for almost a year. Her death was a deliverance. Nevertheless, I have often dreamt of her and also my (step)father and sometimes even my biological one. Nothing conflictual, thank god, but I always feel a bit uneasy about their presence. One thing that I do like when I dream about my mother is that she is in much better shape than she was at the end. Even though I know that she is no longer "normal" at least she can walk and talk, and that makes an enormous difference, as I'm sure you can imagine.
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Grief
May 4, 2018 15:11:59 GMT
Post by kerouac2 on May 4, 2018 15:11:59 GMT
I should mention that I am even less connected to my brother since we no longer have a living parent to share, but that's kind of normal since we have been living in different countries for more than 45 years. He was just relieved that I took on the entire burden all these years.
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Grief
May 4, 2018 19:24:47 GMT
Post by cheerypeabrain on May 4, 2018 19:24:47 GMT
Losing my Daddy in 2014 was traumatic, even more so than losing my Mummy in 1994. Maybe the impact was more difficult because I saw Dad almost every day in his last years and although he was very frail towards the end he was as sharp as a knife. We still talked about astronomy, his wartime experiences in Malta (he was in the RAF) and everything else under the sun. We liked the same books, tv and radio programmes...and I was his darling girl. The favourite. (That's what I tell the others) We still haven't divided up his photos four years later! But we each have things in our houses to remember him by, I wear my Dad's watch every day. I still cry, but it's usually when I'm on my own. I'm affected more easily by sad songs and sentimental films now...I think it took me a couple of years to come to terms with losing Dad. The death of my eldest sister was awful (2016) I was helping my niece empty my sister's pantry a few weeks ago, sorting through jars of jam, pickles and booze all with my sister's writing on the labels...ended up a sobbing heap on the floor. It's all part of the process...now when we go out as a group of siblings (we often meet for lunch) we have to book a table for five instead if six and it hits us all over again. Grief is a part if life. I'm very lucky to have siblings I see often, We talk and reminisce which is probably the best kind of therapy The second eldest sister is undergoing treatment for a bastard cancer atm...It keeps spreading and she keeps fighting. Horrid. BUT. I suppose it's an age thing, the youngest of us is in her mid fifties. I still miss my Dad every day tho....
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Grief
May 4, 2018 21:57:27 GMT
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Post by Kimby on May 4, 2018 21:57:27 GMT
I suspected that since the Aging Parents thread has been mostly dormant lately, this topic might be more relevant. 🙂😪
I forgot to mention that before my Dad’s death, I had not cried real tears of sadness in AGES. It was like his passing opened up a floodgate. Now I get drippy at the drop of a hat...
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Grief
May 4, 2018 22:13:41 GMT
Post by bixaorellana on May 4, 2018 22:13:41 GMT
I don't think grief ever really goes away -- that there is a part of us that will grieve forever for certain people lost to us by death. And it must be even worse when it's people that somehow we cannot imagine that they'd ever die. I almost lost one of my brothers once and when it hit me how much danger he was in, that part of my brain seemed to go black. I cannot imagine the depth of Cheery's grief over her sister and even less that of a parent who loses a child. It seems that when someone very old dies, it's considered okay to offer "he/she had a long life" as consolation. But really, the very fact that the person, often a parent, lived that long makes his or her death even more unbelievable.
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Grief
May 4, 2018 22:43:33 GMT
Post by mich64 on May 4, 2018 22:43:33 GMT
Our parents have dealt with some serious health issues the past 10 years or so but currently they are all in good health and spirits. We surprised my parents today by showing up at the coffee shop they go to 6 days a week at the same time each day. My in-laws stopped by yesterday to drop off there winter stuff and picked up there summer stuff that they store in our garage each season as the condo does not have much storage space. I do think often as to how fortunate we are to have them all living and that they live so close to us.
One of my sisters is quite ill and I panic when I think of what she is going through and when I think of what is to come. A few months ago my brother-in-law called with an update on her condition and I do not now how I did it but I remained calm, strong, supportive and positive during the call. As soon as the call was over, I began to cry uncontrollably and then collapsed due to my whole body going in to what I can best describe as the most intensive cramping everywhere. It was so painful, I have never experienced anything like it. I realized I had to calm myself so I began the breathing exercises that one of my therapist had taught me. It took a few hours for the cramping to subside.
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Grief
May 4, 2018 22:52:48 GMT
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Post by Kimby on May 4, 2018 22:52:48 GMT
That sounds awful mich, but the pain of losing a beloved sibling will probably be even worse. Sorry for your suffering.
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Grief
May 4, 2018 23:19:24 GMT
Post by bixaorellana on May 4, 2018 23:19:24 GMT
Oh dear Mich. I see you as an exceptionally kind and sensitive person, so it is not surprising that your self-control while talking to your brother-in-law showed up in that dramatic way the minute you hung up the phone and let your guard down. I am so very sorry to hear about your sister's illness.
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Grief
May 5, 2018 8:59:42 GMT
Post by cheerypeabrain on May 5, 2018 8:59:42 GMT
Respect Mich. I remeber my sister calling from ITU to tell me that my BiL had died. I tried desperately to keep it together but I cried like a baby whilst she was calm and incredibly kind. We went through a period of losing rellies at a rate of knots in the 90s...2 of them were young and took their wn lives. It seemed to cast a shadow over everything. Bereavement adds a layer of sadness whilst reminding one of ones own mortality. Not having a faith I don't think that my Nan and Ma are sitting on a cloud knitting cardigans for cherubs...but in my head they are still round.. their influence and opinions still affect the way I live.
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Grief
May 5, 2018 15:43:31 GMT
Post by mossie on May 5, 2018 15:43:31 GMT
So sorry Cheery, suicide is possibly the worst thing.
I don't normally do emotion, but as I get older I seem to get softer. I used a pencil sharpener that had been my daughters and it brought her loss all back to me.
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Grief
May 5, 2018 16:54:05 GMT
Post by mich64 on May 5, 2018 16:54:05 GMT
Bixa, I think we would all say that this sister is the most sensitive out of all of us (me, a close second perhaps), but we are now seeing how she is also the strongest of us all. I have always looked up to her and have such pride in how loving and supportive she always is. We are a close bunch, I think because we moved so often, we were not just sister and brother, but we were and still are, each others friend.
Cheery, I am so sorry to read about your losses, everyone reacts differently when learning about tragic events, especially when it is unexpected like some in your case. I can not even imagine how I would deal with taking that call.
I could tell by the tone of my brother-in-laws voice that he was building up to prepare me for difficult news. In retrospect, it is astounding to realize how strong he is to take such care in preparing us to receive the information, like you said, how calm she was telling you, he was likewise. I think I was actually physically feeling my heart break after he called.
We brought my parents with us on our recent visit with my sister, they were strong, loving, comforting and supportive when with her, but my mom was trembling when we left still trying to keep herself together in front of me, trying to protect me as well. Mossie, I constantly think and worry of the sadness my parents are experiencing.
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Grief
May 5, 2018 22:36:47 GMT
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Post by Kimby on May 5, 2018 22:36:47 GMT
From the Aging Parent thread. Thanks, Questa! Change...That is the essence of all sorrow, loss, and sickness as well as good changes like new babies, opportunities and new friends. When we can't let go of the old situation and accept that the change has occurred and is final, then what is a natural, universal experience becomes more painful. There is a difference between having happy memories and clinging tightly to memories at the expense of the present and future. This applies to every change...moving house, pets passing away, a new job, even the joy of a wedding brings changes to grieve for the old family patterns.
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Grief
May 6, 2018 0:33:19 GMT
Post by questa on May 6, 2018 0:33:19 GMT
Cheery, I am so sorry to read about your losses, everyone reacts differently when learning about tragic events, especially when it is unexpected like some in your case. I can not even imagine how I would deal with taking that call. I just wish that when giving bad news the person uses direct and normal language. It is understandable that someone would want to cushion the blow but confusion, specially over unexpected deaths, just makes it worse. My father died without warning when I was 12 and at boarding school. It was pre Easter break and the car park was full of kids and parents milling around.An aunt had driven mum and my 9 year old brother to collect me. I hopped into the back seat and saw my brother's face all teary, Aunt turned in the driver's seat to face me and said "We are all sad because Daddy went to sleep last night and won't wake up again". "Oh" I said,"You mean he is in a coma?" At last my mother turned to face me and I saw the grief in her eyes and she and my brother started crying again. Meanwhile my school friends were knocking on the car windows wishing me a happy week's break. I couldn't cry then or later, just numb and went into a self-protection mode for my brother and me. TBC
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Grief
May 6, 2018 2:37:20 GMT
Post by lagatta on May 6, 2018 2:37:20 GMT
Oh, I understand that, I was a bit older, 15, when my dad died, finally of lung cancer, after two infarci, and many other ills as a chain smoker, and a person who was very sad and broken.
My mother lived to 98 but the last year was a fog. Probably vascular dementia, not Alzheimer. When she was still truly alive, she said she absolutely did not to be kept "alive" in such a state, but that was simply not an option despite her directives.
I do hope that non-human family and close friends who aren't officially family will be counted in this thread. I'll never stop missing Renzo, much as I love Livia.
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Grief
May 6, 2018 2:57:42 GMT
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Post by Kimby on May 6, 2018 2:57:42 GMT
Grief is grief. It doesn’t result only from death, and it isn’t reserved only for human losses. You certainly can grieve a pet. You can also grieve other types of losses, like divorces, estrangements, house fires, and maybe even lost items. Certainly lost youth!
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Grief
May 7, 2018 9:15:18 GMT
Post by questa on May 7, 2018 9:15:18 GMT
Not a hope, whatagain, we all know you would outshine everyone else and completely demoralize the gentlemen here, and cause consternation among the women-folk.
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Grief
May 7, 2018 9:31:22 GMT
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Post by mickthecactus on May 7, 2018 9:31:22 GMT
It would be a very small thread..,
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Grief
May 7, 2018 9:47:27 GMT
Post by questa on May 7, 2018 9:47:27 GMT
They say that size doesn't matter...
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Grief
May 8, 2018 0:29:32 GMT
Post by lagatta on May 8, 2018 0:29:32 GMT
But age does matter, in terms of unfulfilled promise and the wrongness of it all! Of course you loved Robin deeply, and loved your mum as much, but they remain very different situations in terms of the "natural order of things". I've never had human children but get this from a couple of friends who had the same sad experience.
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Grief
May 12, 2018 6:47:22 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 6:47:22 GMT
As noted, excellent subject.
I am too tired at the moment to post but, when time and energy allows I would like to contribute.
I will say that I am struck by the fact that Kimby went through so much of her lifetime with no major familial losses whereas mine started at a very young age.
It's been pretty much part and parcel of my whole lifetime and dealt with or not in so many ways.
(And, thank you Cheery for your most poignant post on this topic. Truly thought provoking)
Dearest Mich,you have so been in my thoughts. Words kinda fail at the loss of a sibling.
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Grief
May 12, 2018 22:49:43 GMT
Post by lagatta on May 12, 2018 22:49:43 GMT
Yes, those things almost seem random. My father died when I was 15. He had been so ill for so long that it was almost a relief, but the whole story meant growing up very poor, though both my parents came from somewhat educated backgrounds for the era. We had a house full of books and often little to eat.
A close friend had few such early losses, and they were the more expected grandparents and great-grandparents. Later they piled up.
I confess that while some of my cousins' demise would be a horrible shock and a deep sadness, I couldn't feel the same about my sibling, a horribly violent and abusive person. Not sexually, if anything he was and remains asexual.
We must remember and honour grief for close friends and "chosen family". There was a month a bit over 20 years ago when I lost three such friends in less than a month.
And of course there are wars and disasters when people lose many if not most of their family, friends, neighbours, co-workers etc...
After this we need a "Sunny Side of Life" thread!!! It is a beautiful sunny day here, and I've just finished gently removing some burrs from Livia's fur.
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Grief
Apr 16, 2019 19:16:56 GMT
Post by lagatta on Apr 16, 2019 19:16:56 GMT
Well, I found the Grief thread. I've been translating the obituary a friend wrote for her husband (also a friend) who is still alive but evidently it is a matter of days. I'm glad I could do something. I think male friend is sleeping most of the time (heavily sedated with painkillers - he had bladder cancer that metastisised). I was pleased with how she is coping and pleased to help. She'll feel very alone in their house, though fortunately her son, his wife and their two children live upstairs. The building is a little duplex they bought together, and son and daughter-in-law had another half-storey built - fortunately the structure was strong enough to support that. I doubt that there will be a memorial meet-up very soon- more likely when the weather is better and one of his sons who lives on the west coast (he is a teacher) will be free to travel. Meet-up as few of us are particularly religious, so there will be no service but a lot of memories.
I'm wondering whether she will keep the king-sized bed. Husband (83) uncommonly tall for men of his generation; she is shorter than I am, and I'm short. The house is a little working-class dwelling, small rooms except for the extension they had built at the back of the kitchen as a glassy dining - and reading - room with lots of plants and a spot where their remaining cat suns herself. The giant bed means no room at all around it in the bedroom...
They live right across from the Jean-Talon métro, which has two lines. I live a few streets south of there. Husband was a scholar, especially on Latin-American issues. I'm hoping she will offer me his Spanish books (his and those of other people I know) as she doesn't speak Spanish at all...
As some have said in this thread, grief elicits other tiny griefs - obviously Notre-Dame, and also the loss of a Greek byow restaurant nearby (wine is overpriced here; tolerable at home but not with the tripling restaurant markup) where our gang often went. Female friend likes to travel - I don't know whether she will want to go somewhere for a while or wait, and sort out his things that may be of nor use to her or her son (son, while taller than mum, is not very tall or broad-shouldered).
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Grief
Apr 17, 2019 3:38:32 GMT
Post by kerouac2 on Apr 17, 2019 3:38:32 GMT
I have noticed that the older one gets, the more accepting of death one becomes, at least in terms of the death of other people. I'm sure it's quite normal because by a certain age, all of us have been through the deaths of a lot of people, some close family and friends and some people we barely knew, not to mention movie stars and singers whose deaths can reduce lots of people to tears, especially the young.
I have known more than one person who hid the death of a child from the grandparents, thinking that telling them that the person had suddenly moved away to South America or Australia would cause less suffering. In fact, they unwittingly caused even more grief because "he could have at least said goodbye before he left" or "I don't understand why he never writes." At least in our new age of instant electronic communication, few people will believe this stupid lie anymore.
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Grief
Apr 17, 2019 11:06:14 GMT
Post by lagatta on Apr 17, 2019 11:06:14 GMT
And the grandparents were young in a time when early deaths were far more common - even if we are talking about boomers. Life expectancy has increased considerably over the past few decades, in many countries.
As questa has pointed out, that fortunate change also creates new problems.
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Grief
Apr 22, 2019 22:55:20 GMT
Post by bixaorellana on Apr 22, 2019 22:55:20 GMT
I lost a very dear friend Saturday. You have all heard me talk about "Charlie" on here, a non-participating anyporter. I met her and her husband almost the day they moved to Oaxaca eighteen years ago and we have been friends ever since. Well, he suffered the "brief illness" and mercifully found the release of death Saturday night. He was five days younger than I, and I feel I've lost a brother in the loss of that very staunch, honorable, and comfortable friend.
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Grief
Apr 22, 2019 23:30:51 GMT
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Post by Kimby on Apr 22, 2019 23:30:51 GMT
Charlie is lucky to have you as a supportive friend in her time of loss.
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Grief
Apr 23, 2019 0:49:40 GMT
Post by lagatta on Apr 23, 2019 0:49:40 GMT
Yes, I remember those people, and am very sorry. As you know I'm going through the same thing. I think translating and communicating among people affected is helping somewhat. And I suspect your travels will too, as long as you find ways of remembering him, them together and your friendship.
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Grief
Apr 23, 2019 3:32:43 GMT
Post by kerouac2 on Apr 23, 2019 3:32:43 GMT
Sorry to read this. I have never been able to decide whether the "brief illness" or the "long battle" is preferable. All will come clear some day.
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