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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 19:15:08 GMT
I heard a brief segment on NPR about a small segment, (I can't quote numbers nor do I know if it's "growing") bands of vegans who have taken to terrorizing food establishments in Paris, restaurants specializing in meat items and also butcher shops in particular.
They throw blood (origins unknown) on these establishments, both inside on the walls and outside as well.
How f'n crazy is this?
To date I haven't heard of anything here locally but I fear there's a "movement" evolving from what I could gather. The report was recorded in Paris.
I recall the PETA movement who protested the animal fur industry but my understanding was that they used red paint.
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Post by lagatta on Jul 19, 2018 23:17:07 GMT
It could also be two or three people. Such stuff has always gone on, about different issues.
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Post by questa on Jul 19, 2018 23:26:56 GMT
So there goes the theory that by not consuming flesh, a person becomes peaceful and compassionate.
Alan Watts giving his reason for why he was a vegetarian. He said, "I am a vegetarian because cows scream louder than carrots."
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Post by lagatta on Jul 20, 2018 18:35:25 GMT
PETA have never been peaceful or compassionate. They have put up billboards comparing eating meat to the Nazi holocaust, to the mass murder of - mostly Indigenous - sex workers at a pig farm near Vancouver and other nasties, including trading cards for children providing them reasons to mock children who eat meat or consume dairy products - such as fat, pimply, gassy at both ends and other schoolyard taunts. This one is also really disgusting: www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/peta-ad-rape_us_581befcfe4b0aac624836a29 Comparing artificial insemination of cows with the rape of women. Now, I love creatures great and small, but I don't think artificial insemination of any mammal, human or otherwise, compares to the horror of violent rape. Here are some other doozies: www.businessinsider.com/peta-shocking-controversial-ads-2011-10?op=1 I never saw the softcore porn rescue ad. As a member of a rescue group, I would have given them shit about that one.
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Post by whatagain on Jul 20, 2018 19:06:32 GMT
Petasse in French means bitch. I like peta but like many such org they are excessive. Now maybe excess is needed to make things move.
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Post by lagatta on Jul 20, 2018 19:21:33 GMT
They can also be a PITA... (Pain in the ...). The problem is that I certainly agree about compassion towards other animal species, they royally piss me off.
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Post by questa on Jul 21, 2018 0:26:05 GMT
Australia is caught between a rock and a hard place in regard to the export of live sheep and cattle to Indonesia and the Middle East. For several years there has been horrendous treatment of the animals with thousands dying from thirst, starvation, heat and cruel handling while loading and at sea. All political parties have passed laws to clean up the trade but the farmers are caught in the cross fire and are leaving their farms. The cost of transporting livestock keeping to the more humane laws outweighs the income from raising the animals for export.
It would be easy and more profitable to have abattoirs closer to the farms and sell the meat as frozen carcasses, but the buying countries require it to be killed to their custom. Australia banned exports of cattle to Indonesia a few years ago because of the sadistic and utter bastardry of the Indonesian stock workers.
With their stock unsold, the beef industry suffered, and now the sheep industry is facing a tough time.The large groups of protesters of all kinds are creating change, but it is a lose/lose situation whichever way it goes.
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Post by lagatta on Jul 21, 2018 1:00:48 GMT
That is horrible. And there are certainly halal slaughterers and butchers in Australia; what is the problem?
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Post by questa on Jul 21, 2018 23:23:57 GMT
Big Business and Politics....what else?
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Post by kerouac2 on Jul 22, 2018 17:54:43 GMT
I was reading a pretty horrifying French article about vegan dog food and cat food since of course most vegans apparently feel that their pets should adopt their lifestyle. The article says that cats are 100% carnivores and cannot remain healthy on a vegan diet. Dogs are a bit luckier because they have started to become omnivores after 15,000 years of domestication. They have learned to digest starches but still require a very high protein level in their diets. Wolves, for example, would die very quickly on a vegan diet. Yet in Thailand and Vietnam, I have seen the local residents putting out plates of rice for their pets. I assume that these at least have meat or fish broth on them to make the experience less horrible. PETA naturally claims that there is no problem at all: The Vegan Dog-Food Guide: Tips for Feeding Your Canine FriendsAnyway, the French article goes on to say that it is not at all difficult to have a vegan pet -- just choose a rabbit or a turtle instead.
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Post by mickthecactus on Jul 22, 2018 18:11:29 GMT
I wouldn’t say PETA say there is no problem. They just endorse vegan pet food.
But then they would.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jul 22, 2018 18:53:41 GMT
I remember back in the 70s when any health food store you entered invariably had bulletin board ads offering 100% vegetarian kittens for adoption. Never saw any for 100% vegetarian cats because those kittens probably didn't survive to adulthood.
All of us who have cats and dogs but who also flirt with the idea of vegetarianism for ethical reasons are pretty much in an ethical quandary. We humans can thrive without meat, thus not having to be complicit in the killing of other creatures. But what about our carnivore pets?
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Post by bjd on Jul 22, 2018 19:01:38 GMT
My daughter, who is not a vegetarian or vegan, tried feeding some green beans mixed into her cat's food. The cat ate everything else and wouldn't touch the green beans. She did occasionally eat some grass in the garden though.
I personally am horrified when I hear of vegans not giving their children dairy products.
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Post by questa on Jul 23, 2018 1:34:46 GMT
All of the necessities for humans on a vegan diet are met if the diet is carefully constructed and the right blending of elements is followed.
Except one thing......Vitamin B12 This vitamin is only obtained from animal sources so vegans are usually advised to take B12 supplements. In countries where many people follow this diet, their food preparation is not the squeaky-clean manner of the West. In the small insects, weevils and broken down animal matter, and mushrooms and fungi grown in soil, the body finds enough B12 to get by.
In my clinic I once saw a baby...normal, healthy, full term, breast-feeding developing normally until about 7 months old when his development started to go backwards. He lost his ability to sit, then roll. take weight on legs an finally to raise his head. As part of the checks they found the mother was not taking Vit B12 and baby had an extreme deficiency. He made a good recovery and his mother also felt better with her supplement.
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Post by lagatta on Jul 23, 2018 4:09:36 GMT
bjd, that can be cultish, but it is far from rare for human children to be deathly allergic to dairy products (at least cow; goat and ewe often are better tolerated). Nowadays there are other options for calcium, magnesium and B12.
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Post by questa on Jul 23, 2018 12:44:51 GMT
Central Australia has/ had a camel dairy where the milk was used in hospitals for babies with gut problems. Seems it is the milk closest to human milk in its composition.
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Post by kerouac2 on Jul 23, 2018 12:52:05 GMT
I think it is goat milk that is recommended as a replacement in France, since we have a shortage of camels.
Of course all of this is useless to vegans. There are still regular reports in the news about vegan or even vegetarian parents being thrown in jail when their babies die.
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Post by lagatta on Jul 23, 2018 13:19:15 GMT
There is no reason a vegetarian diet that includes dairy, a complete protein, should lead to failure to thrive. This bothers me a bit because I am sure that vegans (why vegetarians?) are not unique in fatal neglect of small children's diets. I'm sure there are parents who just feed them crap, including sugary fizzy drinks. And there are other cultish diets that are far from vegetarian.
I remember when a teacher forced me to drink a little container of milk; I think it was probably more my parents who remembered how very sick I got. We have come a long way in terms of alternatives to cow's milk and of awareness of allergies, some of which are very grave.
Questa, that's a wonderful initiative.
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Post by kerouac2 on Jul 23, 2018 13:32:37 GMT
There is no reason a vegetarian diet that includes dairy, a complete protein, should lead to failure to thrive. Of course not, but being a vegetarian does not necessarily make one a nutritionist. A lot of vegetarians have not even studied how to get the necessary protein or other elements into their diet. I remember one set of parents who apparently thought that exclusively feeding their baby pureed carrots was a wonderfully healthy diet.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 14:06:29 GMT
My daughter, who is not a vegetarian or vegan, tried feeding some green beans mixed into her cat's food. The cat ate everything else and wouldn't touch the green beans. She did occasionally eat some grass in the garden though.
I personally am horrified when I hear of vegans not giving their children dairy products. Both cats and dogs will occasionally eat grass. It aids in digestion and they do it instinctively. There are even packets of seeds sold in pet stores geared specifically for people with indoor a animals, primarily cats (because indoor dogs at least get to go out for walks). I believe it's a species of wheat grass which is also grown for humans to juice and is purported to have super essential vitamins and minerals etc.( Another fad in my opinion.)
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Jul 23, 2018 15:07:09 GMT
My dog loves veggies...
I know a few ferocious vegans...passionate about their beliefs which is commendable I'm sure. My son's GF constantly tries to convert him from vegetarianto vegan. Son is a vegetarian because he's never liked meat or fish anyway...but his GF lectures him about dairy products a LOT.
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Post by whatagain on Jul 23, 2018 15:29:49 GMT
When we build an oven in India we allow for more time in the end than in the beginning for the same amount of work. Reason is that most workers are vegans and after a few weeks simply lose the ability to work as hard. Work is too demanding and whilst Europeans recover thanks to meat diet the Indians don't (as much). But I imagine if you don't work being a vegan is ok. Yekyek.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Jul 23, 2018 15:34:35 GMT
The vegans I know are very preachy and often crabby...it must be becauuse they lack enough nutrients...
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Post by kerouac2 on Jul 23, 2018 15:44:41 GMT
That's pretty much what I think too. I once took a train from Paris to Pamplona with a fruitarian. His preaching was a complete nightmare, but it looked like he might die of malnutrition before we even arrived.
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Post by rikita on Aug 20, 2018 8:20:52 GMT
most vegans i know are neither crabby nor preachy. several of my colleagues are vegans, and with some of them, i only realized after several lunch times together, that they even are vegan. one former colleague only ate raw things in summer (and only vegan), in winter she also ate bread and other things ... anyway, none of them ever had a problem that i ate meat in their presence, when one of them got pregnant she started eating dairy and even occasionally meat again (not sure if she still does now) ...
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Post by rikita on Aug 20, 2018 8:26:31 GMT
I was reading a pretty horrifying French article about vegan dog food and cat food since of course most vegans apparently feel that their pets should adopt their lifestyle. The article says that cats are 100% carnivores and cannot remain healthy on a vegan diet. Dogs are a bit luckier because they have started to become omnivores after 15,000 years of domestication. They have learned to digest starches but still require a very high protein level in their diets. Wolves, for example, would die very quickly on a vegan diet. Yet in Thailand and Vietnam, I have seen the local residents putting out plates of rice for their pets. I assume that these at least have meat or fish broth on them to make the experience less horrible. PETA naturally claims that there is no problem at all: The Vegan Dog-Food Guide: Tips for Feeding Your Canine FriendsAnyway, the French article goes on to say that it is not at all difficult to have a vegan pet -- just choose a rabbit or a turtle instead. actually, when i was a kid, our cats often got left overs - often potatoes mashed up with a raw egg. not because of any ideology, but because it was just uncommon to buy cat food. they also got proper raw meat at times, though, and of course mice and unfortunately also birds from the garden ... what kind of surprises me though, with someone who is such a strict vegan they'd only feed vegan food to their cats and dogs, how do they justify keeping pets at all? especially, if they live in a small apartment in the middle of a city ... shouldn't they be more aiming to that we stop breeding animals for "entertainment" purposes at all?
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Post by lagatta on Aug 20, 2018 11:36:42 GMT
Perhaps, and some vegans are against keeping pets. But certainly my recent non-human companions have been strays, and would not have lived long if nobody had adopted them. I think the main point there is to spay and neuter, and support programmes in that direction.
By the way, quite a few Germans (and other German-speakers; Austrians and Swiss) played a key role in the spay, neuter and release (or adoption) of the famous stray cat colonies in Venice and Rome. Their size has been reduced considerably without killing anyone.
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