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Post by lagatta on Aug 14, 2018 12:20:12 GMT
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Post by kerouac2 on Aug 14, 2018 12:34:04 GMT
They won't be taking the A10 to get away. Traffic is snarled almost to the French border. 11 dead so far.
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Post by lagatta on Aug 14, 2018 12:40:03 GMT
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Post by bixaorellana on Aug 14, 2018 16:01:14 GMT
How horrible!
At the risk of sounding heartless and shallow, I have to say how pleased I am that this thread popped up again. It's really gorgeous and informative.
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Post by lagatta on Aug 14, 2018 17:20:09 GMT
Well, that's like discussing Lombok, or any beautiful place facing tragedy. I see the Lombok earthquake thread in Asia just above the darkened Genoa thread in Europe...
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Post by fumobici on Aug 15, 2018 0:07:29 GMT
A friend who loves Genova as much as I do sent me a report about the bridge. A tragic situation obviously. I rode under that bridge where it collapsed on the train to Milan, there are a lot of buildings nearby.
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Post by lagatta on Aug 15, 2018 2:06:10 GMT
Yes, in some of the reports, although they say it is an industrial area, I could see housing blocks beneath the bridge (in pastel colours). Of course the families had to be evacuated. Better than being killed or injured obviously, but quite traumatic. I had to stop following the tweets as it was becoming obsessive, not of any use to the victims, and I had other work to do.
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Post by kerouac2 on Aug 15, 2018 15:17:43 GMT
With the death count now at 39, this has been on all 5 of the French news channels non stop, even more so because 4 of the dead were French. Also a number of people who were on the bridge but didn't fall into the chasm were French so of course they have been interviewed non stop.
I am still amazed by the stories of the people who fell yet survived.
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Post by kerouac2 on Aug 15, 2018 17:04:04 GMT
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Post by kerouac2 on Aug 15, 2018 17:55:59 GMT
I'm sure that I'm not the only person who has been wondering about the green truck on the edge of the precipice. We have all seen it on all of the photos of the bridge collapse. Here is the story of the driver: Genoa truck driver
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Post by lagatta on Aug 15, 2018 18:46:16 GMT
I'd been practically trying not to look at the story as it will be a long time before we have much conclusive information, other than the depressing news of the rising body count. Yes, it was the day before a major holiday when everything shuts down there, so many people had -sorry - "fatto il ponte" (same expression as in French). I don't think I've ever taken that road bridge; if I recall every time I was passing through Genova whether from France or Piemont, it was on the train. Not many alternatives there.
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Post by kerouac2 on Aug 15, 2018 18:51:58 GMT
The main thing that is evident to me is that the new bridge will be much bigger. 50 years ago, a 4 lane highway seemed more than sufficient, even through a city. Whenever they build the new bridge (how many years will it take?), I'm pretty sure that it will be at least 8 lanes.
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Post by whatagain on Aug 16, 2018 13:55:50 GMT
Surprised ISIS didn't claim it was them.
I hear some locals here - we are close to the Italian border - talking about malversations (English ?) mafia, blind eye etc. Like it would be any different from here. And like it changes anything for these poor souls.
We had small collapses of bits of roof in the major tunnels in Bruxelles which were yet investigated. Now a lot of repair / rebuilding is taking place. The cause was Simply a lack of maintenance over the years
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Post by mossie on Aug 16, 2018 14:47:53 GMT
It would appear that the old story of skimping on maintenance, or worse, the original construction, is being blamed.
Interestingly the Times says people within the Italian government are blaming the EU or the operating company.
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Post by kerouac2 on Aug 16, 2018 15:40:33 GMT
The recriminations are becoming more and more interesting. I love the way the Italian government is pointing fingers at the autostrada company and just about everybody else, but on their own website they had said months ago that there was absolutely no reason to waste money on fixing that bridge or building a new motorway. They have now removed that article from their website, but too late! -- it was already archived by others.
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Post by kerouac2 on Aug 18, 2018 18:06:26 GMT
43 dead with perhaps a couple more to discover.
Autostrade says it can clear the rubble and build a new bridge within 8 months. There is no way that I can believe that.
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Post by bixaorellana on Aug 18, 2018 18:42:47 GMT
Probably in 8 months they could build it to the same excellent specs as the last one.
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Post by kerouac2 on Aug 18, 2018 18:49:02 GMT
They have made a point of claiming that the new bridge will be built out of steel. Steel reassures people. Gustave Eiffel's steel bridges are still standing.
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Post by kerouac2 on Aug 21, 2018 3:10:13 GMT
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Post by kerouac2 on Jun 28, 2019 11:48:33 GMT
And now they can start building the new bridge...
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Post by lagatta on Jun 28, 2019 14:58:31 GMT
Le Pont Champlain, one of the main bridges between Montréal and the South Shore, has been replaced (original construction was poor; the two bridges older than it are in much better shape), but they aren't dismantling it, they are taking the components apart and recycling materials that can be re-used.
We also had a highway overpass collapse some years ago; several people died. There was a lot of corruption in road building at the time; a government commission was even established to investigate it.
Those elected officials look far too jokey-happy in the aftermath of a major tragedy in the city. The projected images make it appear that they want to clear out all the blocks of flats close to the bridge, although as one can see there is an entire neighbourhood there.
One aside I did like was the man with darker skin who had simply become another Italian fellow, after all the silly fears about "replacement".
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Post by lagatta on Aug 15, 2019 12:56:39 GMT
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Post by kerouac2 on Aug 15, 2019 14:17:00 GMT
Anyway, it has been announced that the new Renzo Piano bridge will be completed earlier than originally thought. It should open in the last quarter of 2020.
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Post by kerouac2 on Jul 30, 2020 18:24:33 GMT
The new bridge will open on Monday, August 3rd. Amazingly fast, so I hope they built it well.
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Post by bjd on Jul 30, 2020 19:16:09 GMT
I hope Renzo Piano did a better job than on the Centre Pompidou (Beaubourg) in Paris. Maybe there will be coloured pipes sticking out the sides.
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Post by kerouac2 on Jul 30, 2020 19:26:18 GMT
It's funny that you mention the Centre Pompidou, which is totally wrapped in scaffolding at the moment to the extent that it looks like it is being torn down. But it is still open, just with a different entrance in back. I'm sure that Renzo is overseeing the project.
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Post by lagatta on Jul 31, 2020 1:01:34 GMT
Alas, there are other Renzos than my late black tomcat...
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Post by fumobici on Jul 31, 2020 15:18:45 GMT
Hope the image posts. This graphic from upthread needs to have added that Italy insanely privatized its main highway system, le autostrade, which neatly explains the lack of infrastructural investment that led to the bridge collapse. Recently, the ruling coalition has announced its intention to re-nationalize this critical network. I hope they manage it.
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Post by fumobici on Jul 31, 2020 15:21:10 GMT
I hope Renzo Piano did a better job than on the Centre Pompidou (Beaubourg) in Paris. Maybe there will be coloured pipes sticking out the sides. I have to concur that the Centre Pompidou is pretty hideous.
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Post by kerouac2 on Jul 31, 2020 15:32:46 GMT
Italy insanely privatized its main highway system, le autostrade France did the same thing for the majority of the autoroutes under a right wing president, but the government kept the authority over the maintenance rules, and since it also maintains the authority over the tolls, that is a pretty good constraint. I love graphs, but this one is not totally meaningful since it does not tell us how many kilometres of roads are involved. We need to know the km/investment ratio per country. I have to concur that the Centre Pompidou is pretty hideous. While the Centre Pompidou is not my favourite style (and not even its incarnation in Metz, for which Piano cannot be accused), I still find it brilliant for being a building that looks like no other building in the world. How many other places in the world can claim that? Also it is very functional -- something that is often forgotten by brilliant architects.
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