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Post by kerouac2 on Dec 2, 2018 21:35:51 GMT
The evening news explained that 412 people were arrested in Paris. The vast majority were young men (age 18-35) but there were also a number of minors and about 15 women. The men almost all came from provincial cities around France.
The penalty for vandalism of private property can be 2 years in prison + big fine. The penalty for vandalism of government property can be 7 years in prison + even bigger fine. Arson is worse, but most of it was just fires in the street, so they will probably only worry about the dozen or so fires in buildings. There were 249 fires in all.
133 people were injured. 22 of them were law enforcement officers.
The first sentences will be handed out tomorrow, using the "immediate judgement" law for crimes committed in full view of the authorities.
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Post by questa on Dec 2, 2018 23:53:20 GMT
Who here remembers 1968 and "Danny the Red"? At least in those days the protesters had an aim, a leader and plans for the future that would (they thought) lead to a fairer way of life.
Adelaide was having large anti-war demonstrations at the time re Vietnam. We have a cadre of police horses, all large greys that have been trained to ride into demo crowds and break them up. Some of the crowds took to rolling ball bearings under the hooves, so the police riders removed the leather caps from their spurs and sharpened the rolling disc. Anyone trying to hurt a horse got a warning then a shoulder high slash.
As kerouac2 has experienced, crowds move swiftly. Keep to the edge of the mob and know where your side streets are. and are they blocked off.
K2, your photos do you credit (again) and capture the mood and threat of danger better than the actual melee does.
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Post by lagatta on Dec 3, 2018 0:23:56 GMT
But who is this peoples, who doing this ? where is from, who is the organizer, who responsibility for this ? Naked Viking has very strange syntax, either in French or in English. I suspect that he is some kind of racist white European. Don't worry, Naked, I have absolutely no sympathy for murderous self-proclaimed jihadis, and the Belgian Cheech and Chong pub owners were particularly ridiculous.
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Post by lagatta on Dec 3, 2018 0:27:03 GMT
Kerouac, does public property include municipal property such as bus shelters? I think the Vélib cycles belonged to some kind of public corporation, but you probably have more info about them.
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Post by kerouac2 on Dec 3, 2018 4:57:08 GMT
Sorry, Lagatta, I don't know the fine points of all of that, but the bus shelters actually belong to JC Decaux even if they serve an official function. They are usually rather easy to fix, but it clearly has a cost...
I'm sure that I will learn quite a bit more about this in the coming days.
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Post by bjd on Dec 3, 2018 6:44:47 GMT
An article about the rioters from France24: www.france24.com/en/20181202-yellow-vests-gilets-jaunes-paris-rioters-macron-france-champs-elyseesThe woman from Lorraine who came to Paris with her husband and kids complaining that she is in the red every month and that they can't go on vacation strikes me as getting her priorities wrong. It has always seemed to me that in France, not being able to go on vacation is seen as the worst possible fate. As Kerouac says, in the coming days more will be known about those who wrecked things. I heard on the radio that some were minors. I hope their parents will be responsible for paying for damages.
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Post by mickthecactus on Dec 3, 2018 11:21:58 GMT
I wonder how long before it starts in London?
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Post by kerouac2 on Dec 3, 2018 12:30:14 GMT
Plenty of people are still supporting what happened. "The government is sucking us dry and we are starving." Hyperbole never killed anyone. On the news they mentioned that it is indeed the taxpayers who will pay for all of smashed bus shelters and street signs. There was bad news for certain automobile owners. Insurance policies cover damage but not all of them cover destruction by fire. If the people did not have this in their policy, they will receive no money.
I said earlier that vandalism of private property could get a 2-year sentence in prison. In fact, it could be a 3-year sentence. There are 60 trials scheduled for today. The other perps remain locked up until the judicial system gets around to them.
The Arc de Triomphe is graffiti-free again but of course is closed for the moment.
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Post by questa on Dec 3, 2018 13:08:52 GMT
Most of the insurance policies I have seen specifically exclude "civil unrest and riots"
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Post by kerouac2 on Dec 3, 2018 13:35:06 GMT
I think they might be a bit more common in Europe since there have been so many incidents over the years, but I'm not sure.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 17, 2019 12:36:37 GMT
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 17, 2019 12:48:26 GMT
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 17, 2019 12:56:17 GMT
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 17, 2019 13:08:53 GMT
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Post by breeze on Mar 17, 2019 13:13:43 GMT
kerouac, what's the writing on the souvenir shop? Something? kills, capitalism also. And on the right, Paris to Algiers...is it "marchons sur la" something de something?
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 17, 2019 13:16:46 GMT
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 17, 2019 13:22:01 GMT
kerouac, what's the writing on the souvenir shop? Something? kills, capitalism also. And on the right, Paris to Algiers...is it "marchons sur la" something de something? On the left it says "Jaundice kills, so does capitalism," jaundice being an apparent reference to yellow vests. On the right it says "From Paris to Algiers, let's march on the heads of kings."
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 17, 2019 13:29:17 GMT
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 17, 2019 13:38:01 GMT
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Post by lagatta on Mar 17, 2019 14:22:17 GMT
There were far more adept graffiti about the zombie president in Algiers. After Sharon and several Soviets...
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Post by mickthecactus on Mar 17, 2019 14:31:33 GMT
All very sad. I hate this vandalism.
Btw Messi plays for Barcelona, not PSG.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 17, 2019 14:40:20 GMT
Btw Messi plays for Barcelona, not PSG. Jeez, I meant Neymar. Shows how big a football fan I am!
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Post by mickthecactus on Mar 17, 2019 14:42:30 GMT
I'm a guy. I don't have anything from Celio.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 17, 2019 14:47:56 GMT
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Post by lagatta on Mar 17, 2019 15:54:09 GMT
Yes, Monoprix, Zara and H&M are scarcely posh. Sure, there is a lot of exploitation in the garment trade high or low, but I don't see how smashing windows in Paris helps workers in Bangladesh or Cambodia. Or that "pillage = justice sociale". Yes, it can mean poorer people can get stuff usually only wealthy folk can afford, but almost all the looters are young men with no serious disabilities.
To be honest, I confess I wouldn't mind if it were only graffiti. I hate those posh shops and look-at-me restaurants. But this is getting ridiculous.
I'm proud to say that I was on the climate march here on Friday and saw no such vandalism. I can't guarantee there was no graffiti, but I didn't see any such minor vandalism, and certainly nothing major such as smashing places up. And at least 150,000 people - remember that we are many times smaller than Paris.
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Post by mich64 on Mar 17, 2019 18:38:17 GMT
We have been apprehensive about planning our upcoming visit but will do our best to keep a balance with our awareness and eagerness to explore.
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Post by lagatta on Mar 17, 2019 21:19:55 GMT
Avoid that area if you are concerned - I don't think you'll have any worries elsewhere in Paris. I never set foot in that area anyway unless I happen to be going to a vernissage (gallery opening) around there, simply because I dislike it.
In general, that movement is in decline, and someone seems to be trying to keep it going, though not being there, I don't know the details.
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Post by mich64 on Mar 17, 2019 22:10:13 GMT
In general, that movement is in decline, and someone seems to be trying to keep it going, though not being there, I don't know the details. That is what I had been assuming Lagatta, but also had been wondering if it was not being reported on like it was at the beginning of the movement. Then events happened this weekend. So, concerned, yes, but there are informed people here (APIAS) who keep us advised by threads such as this. I will pay greater attention to the news coverage as well. Our intention is to stay far away from any planned events, we feel no need to observe or chance getting in the way.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 18, 2019 4:41:56 GMT
There was a specific reason for this resurgence. The "Great Debate" that the government had organised for two months in response to the yellow vests ended on March 15th. (Results and new measures will be announced after all of the data has been compiled.) The demonstrators decided that their own response would take place on the day after the Great Debate. That's why some of the graffiti says "15 March - end of the Fake Debate. 16 March - beginning of the Great Debate."
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 18, 2019 9:00:01 GMT
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