Hong Kong -

[lugg]

I am not sure if this the correct place to discuss what is happening here right now. It could easily fit in many other threads . But it seems worthy of a thread of its own. The new security law breaches the Sino-British Joint Declaration which was signed in 1984 and gave Hong Kong almost full autonomy for 50 years after Britain handed the territory back to China in 1997. So in essence that is until 2047.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-53256034

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-53244862

Chris Patten, Hong Kong's last governor under British rule, said the new law was a "complete overturning of One Country, Two Systems" - the principle under which the declaration was formed.

He called the law "Orwellian", said it will damage Hong Kong's economy, and said that the UK and its allies need to stand up to China.

Lord Patten told Sky News: "We should work with them, make clear that when China behaves reasonably that's fine and we'll work with them, when they behave badly we'll call them out, there will be consequences.

"There has to be, otherwise the 21st century will become increasingly unstable, increasingly less prosperous and increasingly dangerous."

I was listening to a debate on the radio today and a number of solutions were debated . These included: creating a Hong Kong 02 in a low density area of the UK, offering an open citizenship to all, taking into account that most of the under 30s would not be entitled to an British National Overseas Passport or widening the BNOP scheme . It seemed a no brainer to me as I was listening but then I listened to an ex pat who pointed out that many older residents actually support the Chinese government. What a mess, but also what a tragedy.

[kerouac2]

I've been to Hong Kong a few times since the handover, and I have never known what to think. Most of the people live their traditional "Chinese lives" (I don't know how else to call it.) which is basically just hard work, making money and taking care of their family. Like in most places in the world, politics never comes into the picture for 98% of the population.

Right at the beginning, I saw that some of the fancy stores had closed in places that I knew, but I don't know if this was really because of worse economics or just because flashy new shopping malls had been built elsewhere. And on subsequent trips, everything looked totally normal again. Naturally there are far fewer Western residents than there used to be, but that is not the category that is really in any danger.

I have known a few Chinese (Taiwan) people in Paris and that sort of perturbs my opinion anyway. They were virulently against anything that China did, but when you talk to them, they have pretty much the exact same opinions -- "(French) newspapers should not be allowed to publish such things, there is too much freedom in choosing television stations -- they should reduce the number of them, workers should not be allowed to go on strike" etc.

So are the people of Hong Kong just protesting out of principle or is there really something to worry about? I don't know.

[bjd]

I would suggest that people in Hong Kong are aware of how much more controlled life is in the PRC and want to preserve what they have as much as possible. If you looked at films of the protests last summer, there were people of all ages and there were many of them.

Not that the British agreement left Hong Kong with complete democratic freedom -- the legislature was still mostly appointed rather than elected. The "democratic" aspects were introduced as the British realized that they were on their way out in 1997. But it was still more than the Chinese just over the border had. I think if it's mostly the young who are protesting now, it's because they realize that they will live a good part of their lives under the mainland Chinese system, and not the one they spent the first 20 years of their lives in.

The son of one of my friends has been working for a big French luxury goods company in Hong Kong for a couple of years now. When the protests started, business dropped 90%. For now they are sitting it out, but it will be interesting to see what will happen. In any case, many of their customers were not from HK itself but from the mainland.

I wonder how offering to take in thousands of Chinese will go over with Brexit voters. They didn't want Europeans but they are willing to open the doors to people from Hong Kong?

[spaceneedle]

This new law is a very big concern, but not a surprise. I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner, actually.

[questa]

I've made a few trips to China, mainly the rebellious Western area. There when I could chat with the women i'd ask what they thought of Chairman Mao. Twirling of fingers to form a measuring figure and the answer, "80% good and 20% make many mistakes."
I wonder if the present regime will give a bit of slack in their dealings with HK I was in country when the handover took place. I was amazed that everyone was happy and partying. Surely they can't really believe HK is going to let them have their freedom. Now they see the 80%.

[tod2]

We were in Hong Kong just before, maybe a year, before the initial handover. We visited the Ginormous Park with outdoor escalators taking us up the mountain. We were on a set tour so when we ended up in a skyllift gondola with our tour guide, we managed to chat for a few minutes. She was very very apprehensive at the take over. Was not sure what will happen to her family etc. etc. Of course had we been rich Americans instead of poor South Africans, she might have got a wad of dollars to help her situation.

[bjd]

Well before the takeover -- in the 1970s, wealthy Hong Kong Chinese were buying real estate in Toronto. Entire apartment buildings were bought and individual apartments sold to others. They would often send their kids for the last year of high school too, so they wouldn't have to pay foreign student fees in university.

In the past decades, Chinese money flowing into Canada,particularly British Columbia, has been from mainland China.

[kerouac2]

Yes, Toronto is nothing compared to "Van Kong." My Singaporean friends to emigrated to Vancouver showed me some of the new Chinese areas, which they avoided like poison in daily life (however, maybe not the wonderful restaurants). When they left Singapore, it was partly out of fear that Singapore would be overwhelmed by Malaysia or Indonesia one day but mostly because Singapore was just too small a place and they felt confined. But they wanted to become 100% Canadian, and they seem to have succeeded. The Hong Kong Chinese who bought up half of Vancouver on the other hand have turned it into a completely Chinese enclave where nobody speaks English (or wants to). They have just moved their concept of Hong Kong elsewhere. And things like political freedom or open debate are of absolutely no importance to them -- money is the only thing that counts in their lives.

[questa]

Part of my job as community health nurse was to visit the homes of new-born babies to check Mum and Bub were coming along nicely and answer any questions. I noted that I had a mum with a Chinese name and an address in an area of modest 2 bedroom houses.

Rang the doorbell and a flutter of voices and footsteps led to the door being opened by a very pregnant lady. New mother was sitting feeding her baby but another woman, also pregnant went to the kitchen and made the usual cup of green tea for us. Door bell woman had more English so she explained.

There were 7 women there, all from Hong Kong. A "friend" (Male) had rented the house near the hospital and set it up so that women could give birth in Australia. They flew in at about 8 months, delivered and went home within the month. They said it was just in case the Chinese took over HK they had an Aussie citizen to help them get away. I visited about 12 new babies at that address.
Apparently it is big business in USA.

[bjd]

Big business in Canada too. The kid gets Canadian citizenship, not just for HK people but many from the mainland nowadays.