|
Post by kerouac2 on Aug 5, 2020 10:45:34 GMT
I'll just start with one of the first video reports since I presume that everybody here is already aware of the event.
|
|
|
Post by lugg on Aug 5, 2020 11:01:59 GMT
Just terrible.
|
|
|
Post by kerouac2 on Aug 5, 2020 11:25:44 GMT
France has already sent 3 military medical planes to Beirut -- luckily it's only a few hours away rather than being on the other side of the world.
The Lebanese population in France is about 50,000 so I am quite sure they will mobilise immediately. During the civil war in the 1970's, huge numbers of Lebanese arrived in France, mostly from the wealthy classes (the poor Lebanese wound up in Syria or Jordan). Although they have always kept a foothold in France, most of them went home once peace returned to Lebanon -- after all there was a fortune to be made in rebuilding Beirut. And now they're going to have to do it all over again.
President Macron will be in Beirut tomorrow.
|
|
|
Post by lagatta on Aug 5, 2020 14:12:39 GMT
219,555 Lebanese in Canada, according to the 2016 Census. This includes the children and descendants of Lebanese emigrants and refugees. Many in Montréal and Ottawa. It will probably be important for Canada to send wheat, as the majority of the country's wheat stock has been destroyed in the explosion, and Canada produces a large quantity of durum wheat (for bread making), and pita is a staple food in the Levant.
Here, this has eclipsed even Covid coverage.
|
|
|
Post by kerouac2 on Aug 5, 2020 14:47:02 GMT
It's not a contest, but I was just counting people in France with Lebanese nationality (since those are the only authorised statistics here). I did see that most of the Lebanese diaspora settled in Latin America, notably Brazil, Argentina, Colombia and Mexico. I hope that those countries will be able to assist in spite of having their own huge problem.
I was watching Skynews about an hour ago and saw that the UK is still wringing its hands about what to do "compared to France which has already acted." If that's the case, one hopes that it is a contest after all.
|
|
|
Post by mossie on Aug 5, 2020 15:20:28 GMT
Sounds as if it was a terrible accident......BUT how incredibly irresponsible to store 2.75 tons of unstable material in the middle of the city, and for years, so an accident waiting to happen. That was a more powerful thing than the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki which ended WWII
|
|
|
Post by kerouac2 on Aug 5, 2020 15:47:24 GMT
Well, heads will probably roll concerning who is responsible for stocking this stuff for so many years, but probably not the real culprits.
|
|
|
Post by htmb on Aug 5, 2020 16:49:13 GMT
The casualty numbers continue to grow. Horrible, absolutely horrible.
|
|
|
Post by cheerypeabrain on Aug 5, 2020 17:04:56 GMT
The death toll continues to rise 135+ killed and over 5,000 injured. 250,000 made homeless. 2.5+ tons of highly unstable ammonium nitrate stored unsafely for 6 years...horrific...
|
|
|
Post by kerouac2 on Aug 5, 2020 18:05:51 GMT
The evening news is very grim tonight with all sorts of new images. However, I suspect that tomorrow will be worse when they cover President Macron's visit to Beirut and the activities of the French medical teams.
|
|
|
Post by bjd on Aug 5, 2020 18:31:30 GMT
It reminded me immediately of the explosion in Toulouse on September 21, 2001. Same product but Beirut is 9 times more ammonium nitrate. I saw on the news that there have been other explosions in the meantime, but obviously no care was taken to store the stuff safely.
|
|
|
Post by kerouac2 on Aug 5, 2020 18:46:45 GMT
"It's just fertilizer."
And yet that's what a lot or terrorists buy when they want to make a bomb.
|
|
|
Post by lagatta on Aug 5, 2020 21:46:58 GMT
Yes, I remember that Toulouse explosion; I was in France when it happened. I suppose that in many other countries it was underreported as overshadowed by the WTC attack fallout.
And no, it is not a contest. Indeed, there was a very large Levantine migration to Latin American countries.
|
|
|
Post by questa on Aug 5, 2020 23:57:31 GMT
It is still used here as a fertiliser and buying and selling and storing involves many signatures and ID papers (last I heard). Kids learn early that they don't go near THAT shed.How on earth did that amount build up without someone being aware of the inevitable result.
|
|
|
Post by bjd on Aug 6, 2020 8:19:16 GMT
That amount didn't "build up". It was confiscated from a ship and just stuck in a shed. Apparently even 6 months ago it was inspected and people were told that it was hazardous. The stuff has been there for a few years, 2014 I think.
|
|
|
Post by kerouac2 on Aug 6, 2020 10:11:35 GMT
A wedding day to remember...
|
|
|
Post by tod2 on Aug 6, 2020 16:45:39 GMT
I'm expecting a lot more is going to come out about this terrible explosion. I don't think it just exploded by chance.
|
|
|
Post by onlyMark on Aug 6, 2020 16:57:32 GMT
Don't underestimate the stupidity of people. I'd expect it to be an accident but I've an open mind. I'd expect the fire started in a nearby shed because of someone welding or similar, maybe even cooking, and it got out of hand.
|
|
|
Post by kerouac2 on Aug 6, 2020 17:15:18 GMT
I'm expecting a lot more is going to come out about this terrible explosion. I don't think it just exploded by chance. If ordnance from the Great War can still blow up unexpectedly more than 100 years later, I think the same thing can easily happen with a stock of fertilizer from just 6 years ago.
|
|
|
Post by casimira on Aug 6, 2020 17:21:57 GMT
I'm expecting a lot more is going to come out about this terrible explosion. I don't think it just exploded by chance. I agree with you on this Tod. Highly suspicious. How does one account for more than one explosion?
|
|
|
Post by bjd on Aug 6, 2020 18:11:48 GMT
There were two explosions in Toulouse as well. It may not have all gone off at the same time.
Here is part of an explanation from The Independent: "The explosive stockpile would remain in the docks for six years before Tuesday’s tragic events. Documents leaked on Wednesday morning, which purport to be letters from customs officials to an unnamed judge over 2014-2017, indicate Lebanese authorities were well aware of the “serious dangers” associated with the cargo. Lebanon president Michel Aoun described the failure to deal with the stockpile of ammonium nitrate as “unacceptable” and said those responsible would face “the harshest punishment”. A probe has now been launched, with the investigating committee expected to present findings within five days. Early reports suggest the explosion followed repair work to the warehouse, sparks from which caused unidentified pellets to explode – and following that, the ammonium nitrate."
|
|
|
Post by kerouac2 on Aug 6, 2020 18:33:52 GMT
It's called a chain reaction.
|
|
|
Post by onlyMark on Aug 6, 2020 20:39:24 GMT
"Shortly after 18:00 (15:00 GMT), the roof of the warehouse caught alight and there was a large initial explosion, followed by a series of smaller blasts that some witnesses said sounded like fireworks going off. About 30 seconds later, there was a colossal explosion that sent a mushroom cloud into the air and a supersonic blastwave radiating through the city." "Lebanese broadcaster LBCI and Reuters news agency cited sources as saying the fire was started by welding work being carried out on a hole in Warehouse 12. The port's general manager, Hassan Koraytem, confirmed that maintenance was conducted on the door of the warehouse before the explosion." www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-53668493
|
|
|
Post by casimira on Aug 7, 2020 1:15:38 GMT
Or so Hassan says... (Sorry, but I don't "buy it". Just because the BBC says it's so?)
|
|
|
Post by questa on Aug 7, 2020 5:48:37 GMT
It seems there was a FIREWORKS storage place next door to the explosives building. There is vision of these inside the brown smoke, flashing in different colours and spiraling around just before the main blast. It was the fire in that store that the 8 fire fighters had run in to fight when the big bang went off. All of them were killed.,
|
|
|
Post by bjd on Aug 7, 2020 6:01:23 GMT
Or so Hassan says... (Sorry, but I don't "buy it". Just because the BBC says it's so?) Why look for a conspiracy theory when there is a perfectly plausible explanation?
|
|
|
Post by tod2 on Aug 7, 2020 6:42:00 GMT
First the Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris set alight by a careless worker or workers. Now Beirut reduced to rubble by the same carelessness. People seemed to have no notion of safety these days. If the saying is right….and things happen in threes. Who or what is next due to somebody not paying enough attention to their job?
|
|
|
Post by lagatta on Aug 7, 2020 11:25:07 GMT
Lebanese friends tell me that there is a culture there of corruption, mismanagement, negligence, carelessness, blame-passing. As much of a problem as political/sectarian violence, which has died down, though the very form of the government enshrines sectarian factions.
It does seem strange in a country with such a high literacy rate and educational attainment. We have to provide emergency aid, but there are many wealthy Lebanese who should cough up some funds as well.
We don't know all the facts yet, but there is no reason to assume a terror attack rather than a chain reaction due to stupidity and negligence. La madre del cretino è sempre incinta...
|
|
|
Post by casimira on Aug 7, 2020 11:38:01 GMT
BJD, I don't necessarily consider that " a perfectly plausible explanation". I know I sound like some kind of "wing nut" but, healthy skepticism is more palpable to me.
|
|
|
Post by bjd on Aug 7, 2020 11:38:39 GMT
One thing that really struck me when I watched Macron's speech and press conference in Beirut yesterday was the attitude of the Lebanese journalists. They kept expecting Macron to do something, tell the Lebanese government things, "why did you talk to these politicians who are killing the Lebanese people?", "why did you talk to Hezbollah?".
Macron told them that he talked to officials elected by the Lebanese. That it was not up to him to make political decisions in Lebanon but for the locals. He agreed that the system did not work, but kept repeating after every question, that it was up to the Lebanese to change things.
It really sounded as though they wouldn't take responsibility for their own choices. And the street demonstrations since October have still not provided any leadership who would be able to work at changing the system.
|
|