Sarajevo

[onlyMark]

Mrs M is there now. Arrived Thursday night, had work all yesterday and went out for a walk today.
These are some photos she's sent me. Not many but gives you a flavour.
It seems there are a lot of mosques around, minarets can be seen in the background all the time and she's also sent me a couple of short few second videos of the sound of the call to prayer - that is something I'd become very used to and missed it somewhat in Zambia.

Streets seem clean, the river is quite low for now apparently but the capital is in a valley, you can see the hills dotted around - this geographic location makes for some very smoggy days and is something I'll have to see how we get on with. We already know many who have a bit of money live higher up in the hills but this gives the disadvantage of needing a car to commute with and when it is snowy, access up some hills can be quite difficult as with limited resources the roads up there are some of the last to be cleared.
But, we'll see what happens when I get there - but not till the New Year. This is just a taster for now.

[kerouac2]

Looks interesting so far. Most of us have only seen photos of Sarajevo with the pockmarked ruins of the Holiday Inn during the war. (So strange that it was also the Holiday Inn that got so much exposure during the war in Beirut.)

[bjd]

Thanks for these, Mark. I still regret that we weren't able to go in June. We did get a refund from Lufthansa, but maybe one of these days...It looks nice.

[fumobici]

I was looking at these photos from the bottom up on my "Latest Posts" feed so I didn't find out where they were taken until I'd seen them all. My guess before I got to the top was somewhere in Turkey, which isn't I suppose a horrible guess.

[onlyMark]

I certainly see parallels.

[onlyMark]

One thing in my mind about Bosnia is the impact of the wars there, but I admit I didn't expect that it is only just now that the capital and surroundings are declared mine free - "The official Twitter profile of the United States Embassy in Sarajevo announced that Sarajevo is mine-free."

Even though knowing there ill still be mines within the country not yet neutralised, it gives pause for thought that - "BiH is still at the very top in terms of the number of remaining mines and unexploded ordnance in Europe. Mine suspected areas are 965.26 square kilometres, or 1.88 percent of the total territory of the country,”

www.sarajevotimes.com/city-of-sarajevo-is-now-mine-impact-free/

[onlyMark]

I’ve had an update from a walk today by our roving reporter. She of vast intelligence and unlimited beauty (I have to say that because she sometimes lurks over my shoulder). I gave her the job of taking a load of photos for atmosphere and in the fullness of time I’ll have the opportunity to go around and add descriptive information. I hope.
Hence there is nothing to say and even though I’ll post this latest (large) batch I’ll probably leave it at that until I’m there so there can be something to relate it to rather than it all having no real context.
I’m sure you’ll get a feel for the place and that was the only object in the exercise for now -

Divide KM by two to get Euros. More or less -

What do you think? AK47? -

[bjd]

I appreciate Mrs M taking pictures all over. I guess fancy buildings are more difficult to restore than concrete block apartments, hence the disrepair of the one in the last few pictures.

Are there so few people around because it's Sunday, or are people supposed to stay in because of Covid?

[onlyMark]

Both I think bjd. Certainly would be quieter not being a work day but Covid is getting worse there again and people are tending to revert to staying in more than usual.

[Biddy]

Lovely photos. The Turkish delight was duly noted which I just love. I will be thinking about it all day long - sigh!

[mickthecactus]

She’s a lot better than that other bloke who used to report.

[kerouac2]

Stay away from the mines at the Olympic site. (reply #2360 - Heroes Don't Die)

anyportinastorm.proboards.com/thread/51/last-movie?page=79

[onlyMark]

Mick, she doesn't say much and a picture paints a thousand words - especially as she's just bought a high end iPad with an excellent camera. Being a sunny days always helps. The trouble is she'll take ten times more than used or ten shots of the same thing (like we all do now with digital cameras), upload it to her Cloud storage and tells me to access it and sort them out as she can't be bothered.
I then have to wade through them all and 'curate' the collection.

Biddy, sorry but I hate the stuff.

K2, I did make a note of that film last month. Really did.

[bixaorellana]

Nov 7, 2020 18:07:59 GMT onlyMark said:

the sound of the call to prayer - that is something I'd become very used to and missed it somewhat in Zambia.

I identify! The only place I've ever been where it was part of the culture was Istanbul. I paused and listened every single time.

Nov 7, 2020 18:41:37 GMT fumobici said:

My guess before I got to the top was somewhere in Turkey,

Yes! So much is similar -- even the language on the menu looks like Turkish.

Nov 8, 2020 16:29:56 GMT onlyMark said:

a load of photos for atmosphere

Wow -- a wonderful job! It's not just pretty and atmospheric, either. There is a ton of information in that lot of pictures.

Nov 8, 2020 19:58:04 GMT mickthecactus said:

She’s a lot better than that other bloke who used to report.

Now, Mick ~ were it not for Mark, we'd have no Mrs. Mark. (wait -- that doesn't sound right)

Thanks so much for this, Mark. That whole part of the world intrigues me, kind of to the point where I've not been able to decide which part to visit first. This thread is making up my mind for me!

[bjd]

The pictures with the Muslim gravestones and the minarets reminded me of Mostar, also in Bosnia. But I haven't been to Turkey for decades so it doesn't ring any bells.

As for the language on the menus, it definitely looks Slavic. I can even guess what quite a few of the words mean.

[onlyMark]

The language in Bosnia is a complicated issue which I think needs clarification but at some later stage. For example, should it be called the Bosnian language or the Bosniak language? Plus it is not just Bosnia but Herzegovina as well, together referred to as BiH or B&H, but - "The Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina is one of the two political entities that compose Bosnia and Herzegovina, the other being Republika Srpska".
As we know, the history of the area is complex, the Ottomans, Austro-Hungarian Empire, Tito, wars and so on make for a turbulent and labyrinthine past.

The language is in effect Serbo-Croatian and I'm sure the following is not confusing at all -
"The Bosnian language is the standardized variety of Serbo-Croatian mainly used by Bosniaks. Bosnian is one of three such varieties considered official languages of Bosnia and Herzegovina, along with Croatian and Serbian. It is also an officially recognized minority language in Serbia, Montenegro, North Macedonia and Kosovo.

Bosnian uses both the Latin and Cyrillic alphabets, with Latin in everyday use. It is notable among the varieties of Serbo-Croatian for a number of Arabic, Ottoman Turkish and Persian loanwords, largely due to the language's interaction with those cultures through Islamic ties.
Bosnian is based on the most widespread dialect of Serbo-Croatian, Shtokavian, more specifically on Eastern Herzegovinian, which is also the basis of standard Croatian, Serbian, and Montenegrin varieties."

Lastly, to illustrate something further, don't confuse the words Bosnian and Bosniak. I have a lot to learn and research is only just starting in earnest.
Bosnian is a nationality and Bosniak is an ethnicity - Bosnian, Serbs and Croats can be Bosnian, but Bosniak is a Bosnian, but Muslim.

[kerouac2]

In French it's all just bosniaque.

I was reading about the currency, and the wikipedia article says that just about every banknote issued has spelling errors (or maybe just 'variations'?).

[bjd]

I used euros in Mostar. You could get them out of ATMs.

The language in what used to be Yugoslavia was called Serbo-Croatian, although it would be normal that there would be some local words in the various areas, depending on Ottoman or Austro-Hungarian influence. But after the war, each group started calling its language Slovenian, or Croatian or Bosnian or whatever and they will certainly differentiate more and more over time.

[onlyMark]

Just to mention Mrs M speaks Slovenian and it is far different to Serbo-Croat/Bosnian. She's had to have a language course.
I'll see what happens when I visit an ATM in Sarajevo, maybe there is also an option for Euros.

[lugg]

Exciting times Mark and many thanks to "Mrs Mark" for giving us such a wonderful taster. ( Mark we maybe need a different identifier ?)

I agree re the call to prayer its very special - I have only ever heard it in Turkey and ( at distance) in the Maldives and found it quite hauntingly melodic .

[onlyMark]

I refer to her as Mrs M, which just so happens to be the first letter of my name, but it is not well known that I liken her to the fictional 'M' who is the head of MI6, the Secret Intelligence Service as she has the attributes to be in that position.
This is why it is always written by me as Mrs M and not Mrs Mark.
She is aware of that but it is only in recent years that the true M has been made public. Hence I do not fear to reveal this to you.

[bixaorellana]

Nov 9, 2020 20:14:16 GMT onlyMark said:

it is only in recent years that the true M has been made public. Hence I do not fear to reveal this to you.

That's a relief! For a minute I was afraid that you'd have to kill us because we looked at the pictures. Whew!

[onlyMark]

Don't need to because your brain will self destruct after four hours and you'll vote to re-elect Trump.

[bixaorellana]

                     

[onlyMark]

Short three minute video showing the varied scenery in Bosnia. I only wish it was translated.
The last shot is due to the country being described often as, "Bosnia and Herzegovina is the heart shaped land that lies in the heart of southeast Europe" -

[bjd]

Mark, here is some background reading for you. I don't know whether there is a paywall. If there is,I can cut and paste for you.

www.nytimes.com/2020/11/20/world/europe/bosnia-dayton.html

[onlyMark]

Thanks. I can see it.
I am aware of the Dayton agreement but this also gives some detail about how it affects/affected people and I'll read it closely soon.

[lugg]

Enjoyed seeing the video Mark - so much to explore ... happy days.

[kerouac2]

Tonight's news said there was major flooding in Sarajevo. Anything about which to worry?

[onlyMark]

Personally no and it's news that is quite a few days old. Everything in the centre where I am is running as normal though the river is a bit high. No danger of it bursting its banks though. About 12km to the west is a suburb called Ilidža where there are a couple of rivers. It's mainly flat land and that's where there flooding is/has been. There's various other serious floods in the country that are not mentioned but the one in Sarajevo seemed to be the worse. It resulted in several power cuts as well. I don't think there's been any loss of life.
I dread to think what would happen if there was a major disaster as not only would the emergency services struggle, there is no coordination between them or other assistance.

This sums it up -
"Bosnia has one of the most complicated systems of government in the world, a legacy of the 1995 peace deal struck to end the war in the country, designed to equally distribute power between its ethnic groups.

It saw Bosnia divided into two entities or subnational units, the Serb-dominated Republika Srpska and the Bosniak-Croat Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina. The northeastern town of Brčko was declared a district, a separate and distinct administrative unit.

Each entity has its own assembly and government, overseen by a state-level parliament and council of ministers. The entity of the Federation of BiH is further divided into ten cantons, each with its own government.

Although handling natural disasters and other emergencies is supposed to be done mainly at the entity level, the 14 respective governments, each with varying degrees of responsibility, make up a dizzying maze of blame-shifting and slow decision-making, Novokmet believes.

"In Bosnia, you shift the responsibility from one instance to another in order to avoid taking any responsibility," he explains.

"If you point your finger at somebody, they can say, ‘Oh, it’s not our responsibility, you can talk to the cantonal level, to the entity level, the state level,' or even claim it's out of their hands because climate change is a global problem, and it’s down to the big countries like Russia, China, Western Europe, the US."

"I think that’s the main problem — if nobody can be blamed for it, nobody can bear the consequences," Novokmet concluded.

www.euronews.com/2021/11/05/flash-floods-in-bosnia-prompt-evacuations-and-school-closures